Secession in the USA

Because that's EXACTLY what happened the last time around (and the threats of secession before that) that led to the Civil War.

The Confederate States of America did not violently break away Tet Offensive style. They peacefully broke away months before anything began flying on the battlefield.

I would comment more on my views on the subject of respect in political debate, but that would be offtopic. If yall want to talk about it more I'll make another topic.

Because the majority opinion can be wrong? I sill think the CSA certainly deserved to be forced back into the union, but this is a discussion for somewhere else.

edited 16th Jul '11 6:10:52 PM by YoungMachete

????????????????? If Lincoln was the aggressor why is there a massive statue of him at Washington DC?

By all means please do.

edited 16th Jul '11 6:09:50 PM by GoodGuyGreg

^ History is written by the victors. Had Jefferson Davis won, he'd be in DC, not Lincoln.

History is written by the winners.

edited 16th Jul '11 6:11:01 PM by OhSoIntoCats

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't secession technically been illegal ever since the end of the Civil War?

Constitutionally no. Every state still retains the right to secede.

What about President Wilson's speeches about the people's right to self-determination? Don't tell me that was just to break up the Austrian empire?

edited 16th Jul '11 6:12:56 PM by GoodGuyGreg

^ Yep. He didn't mean what he said. Wilson was a fucking scumbag who would say anything to break up the old orders and come to power.

It's a good thing he had that stroke late in his Presidency.

I might also point out that the cause of so many deaths in the Civil War was the result of gross Union incompetence.

Which brings me to another thought: is it even possible to raise a new confederate army? If it were me, I would proselytize to some of those evangelical officers at West Point and our existing armed forces, and stage a coup. It could be done.

I'd say in genral it would never happen, mostly because of a zero sum game, since there is nowhere for the secessionist to go, the secessionese can't replace what was lost, ending the mutual and peaceful bit.

specifically, the usa probably couldn't handle either the internal or external repercussions of such an act, ending the mutual and peaceful bit.

The areas that are unified enough ideologically to form a nation aren't independent enough economically, as well. We could have a "Republic of the Mexican Border" or a "Soverign Nation of Appalachia" but what would they do to make money?

probably missing the point but, charge toll and sell marijuana to tourist respectively?

the other side, Expanded States of America would probably work out better, untill somebody remembers they have nukes.

Guys, back on topic.

Which brings me to another thought: is it even possible to raise a new confederate army? If it were me, I would proselytize to some of those evangelical officers at West Point and our existing armed forces, and stage a coup. It could be done.

P1: It's possible but shrinkingly unlikely P2: sounds problematic

Come to think of it, Native American reservations are already partially outside the U.S.'s control. It would be interesting if they were to band together for greater power, though I can't see that happening anytime soon.

They prefer to settle their differences in courts, not with armed force.

If the Indians joins forces with Kevin Baugh, we're all fucked.

Ugh. Jhonny speaks well.

Tom: Better double check your history, there was not any peaceful break away. There had been quite a few acts of violence from those wishing ot succede not mention the outright assault on Fort Sumter.

Unlike the last time the U.S. had to deal with Succession issues we have become much more interconnected. The face of the military has also changed drastically. The states all have some interdependence in some form or another for their assorted essentials. Dividing up the nation along any lines would be incredibly difficult and likelly would end poorly.

It would be easier to start carefully and selectively weeding out the corruption, waste, and uncessary parts then to try and split up the union.

edited 16th Jul '11 7:39:04 PM by TuefelHundenIV

War is not something which is lightly waged against a major power, anymore. To conquer a nation is to integrate its economy into yours, just as we ultimately did with Canada - not to mention the whole of Latin America and most of the middle east, with great results.

If the far right wants to assimilate the north, they'll do it through legal and economic channels.

Snow Crash?