The General US Politics Thread

Hope for sanity, prepare for insanity.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:21:41 PM by Fighteer

Pence would probably do the same, and not be as much of a hassle to them.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:26:42 PM by Bat178

It would be satisfying to see the Trump administration crumble at his own hands.

But Pence, a standard Republican politician, doesn't have the cult behind him like Trump does.

Losing that would make the oligarchs more vulnerable to their own base. Though it may not be by very much.

@Fighteer- I've been thinking about this a lot and where I "blame" Sanders comes down to a couple of things. One thing I will note upfront though is that while Sanders does speak about liking Trump's TPP decision on Twitter, he also attacks Trump/supports causes in line with Progressive Democrats. And since several Democrats have supported Trump appointees, particularly terrible Trump appointees, I'm less inclined at the moment to view him as Trump's buddy in a way that other Democrats aren't.

That being said, I think that Sanders' use of the term Establishment as a negative is definitely problematic both because it seems to frame political experience as a bad thing and there's definitely a corollary (cf. Sanders' redefinition of political correctness to be about trade policy) of framing "accepted wisdom" as bad and something challenging this accepted wisdom as good.

Now while I doubt (m)any Sanders supporters actually voted for Trump, as you could see in the debates, Sanders definitely laid the rhetorical groundwork for Trump attacking Clinton's experience and presenting his own lack of experience as a good thing.

I'd also say that while it's Clinton and friends own fault for their anti-Sanders sentiments and (potential) actions, I think the "Clinton stole the primary" narrative did a lot to prevent a strong stance against the Wikileaks/Russian hacking. Because if you see Clinton, the DNC, and possibly the Democratic Party as a whole as an Asshole Victim, you probably aren't going to care much about shady actions taken against them.

The other issue I see and which goes to that discussion of the (white) working class, is that to the extent that Sanders rails against the establishment and frames the Democratic loss as Democrats failing to speak to voters/Trump's stated policies being better, that seems in effect to be an argument that no one should ever vote for a Democrat except for Sanders himself/any candidate he endorses.

Well...that didn't take long. Every tweet about climate change has now been deleted from the Badlands National Park Twitter account. I imagine someone's either losing their job or worse right now.

And as if the 230 protestors being arrested on false charges wasn't enough - four journalists are also being charged with felonies, after doing nothing but cover the event.

This is happening.

There is something satisfying about reading how Trump's ego gets triggered. Apparently, he needs his own safe space.

@MarqFJA

• President Jerkass
• Corrupt Corporate Executive
• Politically Incorrect Villain

@Fighteer
Qualifications alone aren't enough for me. There are a number of stances Hillary currently takes (or has taken recently enough that I'm not convinced she was sincere in changing them) which I strongly disagree with. But if you honestly believe that every bad thing that's been said about Hillary is false, then I guess there isn't much I can do to explain to you why I don't trust her.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:35:38 PM by henry42

You know, one would think that the constant investigations by Republicans that end up being absolutely nothing would lead to some introspection and to pause and think "Well, if THESE guys can't find anything despite trying their best, could she REALLY be that corrupt?"

But Critical Thinking is hard I know.

Part of my problem with blaming Sanders is that Trump had a significantly harder time winning the Primaries that Clinton did, with people like Cruz continuing to effectually fight against him after it was over. If that didn't sink Trump, it's not fair to blame Bernie for hurting Clinton.

He is, at worst, indirectly responsible for making the DNC do some things that looked bad when Wikileaks took them out of context. If we're making a list of things we should blame, that shouldn't be anywhere near the top.

>people keep mentioning policy disagreements

"UGH all these people ranting about faux corruption"

Unless you're meaning in general, and not in response to someone specifically.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:40:54 PM by Lanceleoghauni

Well, most of the things about Hillary I don't like are positions where the Republicans agree with her, so I doubt they'd try to use those things to smear her.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:39:57 PM by henry42

Like what?

Hang on, Henry, disagreeing with some of her policy positions and not trusting her are two different things. Like, changing ones mind when you see what the public wants isn't evidence of corruption, even if you do cynically believe she wouldn't stick to the new positions.

Wow. Now the Golden Gate NPS is tweeting about how 2016 was the hottest year on record.

We are seeing some open defiance here, folks.

You know, my local news media are reporting that the so maligned American media are reporting on a number of embarassing leaks from the White House, about power struggles and intrigues.

@ Lanceleoghauni and Henry-

Well, I think what I and others would probably argue is that it's not pointing out the policy disagreements that is buying into phony corruption narratives, it's the idea of

Like as an example, I think it's pretty clear that Clinton likes the TPP but started opposing it because her constituents don't like (which in theory is a good thing, right?- elected leaders are supposed to listen to voters). But going from the lack of sincerity of Clinton's opposition to TPP to saying that Clinton would go ahead and pass it anyway if/when in office is not a policy objection, it's a criticism based on characterizing her as a completely terrible person.

Edit- by Gilphon

edited 24th Jan '17 2:50:20 PM by Hodor2

I'm going to be honest, but going on about Clinton's corruption, real or imagined, at this date rings hollow to me.

Is there really anything about Hillary Clinton, anything whatsoever, that justifies four years of the antics we've seen out of Donald Trump in the just under three months since the election?

Except Cersei. She was Trump with boobs

edited 24th Jan '17 2:53:12 PM by sgamer82

x4 You're making it sound like a real life Game Of Thrones. Which might actually have been a better sight than what we're actually getting. At least most of the people on Go T were competent.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:52:13 PM by kkhohoho

Absolutely not! After the convention I was 100% behind her, whatever reservations I might have vis a vis policy. Almost anything is better than Trump with the keys to the kingdom.

edited 24th Jan '17 2:53:30 PM by Lanceleoghauni

Thank God America is full of Spartacus's and Rebels, am I right?

edited 24th Jan '17 2:55:36 PM by DingoWalley1

I'm in college, and not only is the town my college is in incredibly conservative but also small, but the people here are also incredibly conservative. So my question is, how can I organize protests against Trump and whatever actions he takes in the midst of a bunch of conservative fuccbois? Mind you all, the college itself is liberal arts, and all of the professors I've had so far are liberal. It's the other students that make me cringe and want to punch them at the same time.

@LeGarcon

• Against single-payer health care (already mentioned this)
• Against tuition-free public college
• For war in Iraq
• For war in Libya
• For escalating involvement in Syria
• For war on drugs

@sgamer82
I never said Trump wasn't worse, but personally, I'd like to hold politicians to a slightly higher standard.

On the one hand, the national parks posting climate change facts in open defiance of this government rules. On the other hand, the fact that they're only doing so because official organizations whose job it is to do this have been effectively frozen and silenced does not rule at all.

people have said it before, but, christ, it's going to be a long four years