Split into two tropes?: You Dirty Rat

Do you think that this trope needs to be split into two? I think it needs to.

The rat side will stay You Dirty Rat! and the mouse side could be titled Mice Are Nice.

Separate tropes for separate associations for separate (albeit related) animals, one of which isn't even mentioned in title... Yeah, I say split. Also, it looks like there's a bit of confusion as to whether this is only about rat/mice characters, or just loosely about rat and mouse-related creatures. On the one hand, you have Master Splinter as an aversion and Ratigan as straight, while on the other are the Rodents Of Unusual Size and the rats from Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade.

Is this about rats being monsters, or about rats being evil?

About rats being evil, undoubtedly

there also should be a trope about rats vs. mice conflict.

edited 4th Jul '11 11:47:54 PM by Aminatep

Would it be like this:

• Rat characters: stays You Dirty Rat!

• Mouse characters: becomes Mice Are Nice

• Conflicts between mice and rats: becomes Rat Mouse Conflict

Seems okay. Trope about rodent wars in general is ykttw material, but mice are nice can be split like right now, provided you put a crowner first

I'm for Edna's proposed tropes.

There is now a page action crowner on this subject here. I included the rat/mouse conflict trope in there because I thought it was related, but if it is unrelated enough that someone could just make it in YKTTW now, I can take it off of the first crowner option.

Similarly, if other tropers believe that we can use Edna Walker's trope names without needing to vote on them individuality, I can make that clearer in the crowner.

Bump?

Has anyone started up the nice mouse trope?

Has anyone started up the rat/mouse conflict trope?

Hello, is anybody there.

Edna Walker,

Sorry, I am unfortunately not that great at drafting trope descriptions or using YKTTW, so I might not be much help in drafting either of those tropes (especially since I cannot think of any examples off of the top of my head). I do like Mice Are Nice and Rat Mouse Conflict as the names of the new tropes though.

Are there some examples that need to be moved from You Dirty Rat! to either of those two proposed tropers?

Here is my two YKTT Ws, one for Mice Are Nice and the other for Rat Mouse Conflict.

Separate tropes, but You Dirty Rat! has some aversions and inversions that will need to be moved.

Also, the Maus example need to be in both tropes: The nazis view the jews as You Dirty Rat!, while the narrator portray them as Mice Are Nice.

Btw, I think the new trope should have Our Mice Are Heroic as main title, with Mice Are Nice as a redirect.

The mice trope and the rat trope does not morror each other, they are completely different tropes: In the rat trope, rodents are typically used as a metaphor for consuming and contaminating resources that rightfully belong to others. In the mice trope, rodents are typically used as a metaphor for being underestimated.

"Our Mice Are Heroic" - why? Most mice in fiction aren't heroic. Also, this trope is completely unrelated to Our Elves Are Different, so I don't see a need for the Snow Clone.

The Our X are Y family of tropes is about how creature types/races are treated in fiction. Pretty much all mice in the example list are walking and talking mice, so they most certainly fit this format.

As for heroism, most of these mice are more or less heroic.

Sorry, that just sounds like Snow Cloning for the sake of it. "Most" of the mice are "more or less" heroic? Even "Our Mice Are Nice" would be better.

For example: the mouse listed from Coraline isn't heroic, nor the one from Watership Down, nor the one from Moving Pictures, nor in HHGTG, nor in Garfield, nor the real life example. That means we either need to split into three tropes, or admit that anything involving "heroic mice" is simply not a suitable name for this.

Replied in the YKTTW thread.

I launched the Nice Mice trope.