Team Fortress 2: Newbie Advice Thread

"I think I managed to get pretty lucky and got a winger for my scout. Now, the question is, should I be actually using it?"

I haven't actually got one, so this is just theory: The Winger has a lower DPS than the stock pistol, so the best use would be to hit a foe with the Fan Of War or get hype from a Soda Popper so it's doing mini-crits For Massive Damage.

Seen a lot of fellas out there who do a good job of putting up a level three sentry gun but a bad job of picking a place to build it. So...

Zen and the Art of Sentry Placement

I'm not about to rattle off all the places I like to build things on each of the maps; where you should build is largely a matter of experience. Each map has a few "sweet spots" that Engineers often take advantage of, but here's some general tips:

Your sentry gun has a maximum range. It's a common newbie mistake to plunk down a gun and expect it to blast everything in sight, but that team-colored sphere that appears when you select a sentry on your build-o-matic? That's its maximum range. Your gun won't detect and fire at anything beyond it, and you'd better believe enemy Soldiers are ready to take advantage of this fact.

Sentry guns also take time to track targets. If your gun is facing one entrance it'll waste anything that peeks his head out pretty quickly, but someone coming up behind it will have a few extra seconds before the hurting starts. Also keep in mind that level one sentries and mini-sentries can swivel and engage foes much faster than a bulky level three sentry. Remember, before you put down a sentry you can right-click to rotate which way it faces.

Your sentry gun has a finite ammo supply. Now, if your level three gun survives long enough to run out of bullets, you're doing very well, but mini-sentries in particular won't last through an extended engagement. You can reload your sentry the same way you repair it, hitting it with your melee weapon (if you have metal to spare).

Your sentry can swivel up and down too, and is tall enough to fire over some railings and other barriers. Giving a sentry gun the advantage of the high ground is a good way to extend its lifespan, and Soldiers in particular hate it when their rockets impact on a knee-high wooden fence instead of the gun they're aiming at. Just remember that a level three sentry is "taller" than a level one, and that cover is a two-way-thing that will block your gun's line of sight if the enemy is too close and/or below it.

So from all this, the ideal sentry position is:

• Somewhere an enemy can't stay out of its maximum range
• A place where the only entrances are close together, allowing the sentry to cover them all quickly
• Somewhere with a nearby supply of ammo for repairing/reloading
• Up high, while still being able to sweep the area, and with a bit of cover to hide behind.

But wouldn't you know it, Valve's map designers decided not to include any perfect, easily-defended emplacements just waiting for you to build a sentry in. So you'll have to learn to compromise. You might be able to cover a room's main two entrances, but leave the enemy with a back door. Or be able to protect your control point while leaving your gun vulnerable to long-range fire. And that's fine - you're not supposed to hold the line all on your lonesome, that's what your teammates are for.

Now a quick review of the ways other classes can and will destroy your stuff, so you can better counter them:

Soldiers' rockets deal direct damage with no maximum range, so if they can stay out of your gun's range, they'll destroy it in three shots or so. It's possible to repair this damage as it happens, but you'll probably run out of metal before the Soldier runs out of rockets. The obvious counter to this is make sure your gun has range on the entire area, but even so, a Soldier can strafe out of cover and pop off a rocket before taking too much damage, allowing them to whittle your gun down that way. To counter that, build in a spot where someone will have to be good and out in the open before having line of sight to your sentry.

Demomen are designed to blow your stuff up, and are very hard to counter. Their grenades can bounce around corners, arc up and over cover, or roll down into sentry nests. Even if you hide your gun out of sight without a nearby surface to bounce grenades off of, Demomen can put down stickies and let the blast damage ruin your day. It's possible, albeit difficult, to put your gun somewhere that ricocheting grenades can't reach that's also out of a sticky bomb's blast radius, but those spots are few and far between.

Spies can effortlessly destroy your gun if you or any other Engineers aren't around to remove their Sappers. It goes without saying that you can't leave your stuff unattended, and that you'll need to be on your guard against teammates suspiciously approaching you. The further away your gun is from an area's entrances, the longer you'll have to notice that Engineer coming up from the enemy lines making a beeline for your gun. Likewise, reducing the number of passages you'll have your back to will guard against the Stab N' Sap, and keep a disguised but unnoticed Spy from sneaking up behind you. And you'll generally want to have your back to a wall, just in case of Your Eternal Reward.

Pyros generally aren't a problem - their range is crap and your guns will push them away as they advance - but one special circumstance is worth mentioning. If your gun is up on a catwalk or just around a corner, it may be vulnerable to a flamethrower. A Pyro can position his weapon so that he's safely out of sight while his cone of fire "wraps" around cover. This can allow him to easily destroy a gun above him or around a corner from him. Make sure there's no safe way to get under the platform your gun is on, and keep it away from doorways.

Heavies just waddle up and shoot your gun, pure and simple, and the problem is that in an even race between a Heavy and a Sentry, the Heavy will beat anything but a fully-upgraded gun - and if a Medic is healing him he may even defeat that. The best way to counter this is to be next to your gun at all times, ready to conduct battlefield repairs. It'll help to have a nearby Dispenser to replenish metal as you work.

So that's that - note that it's impossible to build your gun somewhere that no class has a way of attacking it. Even if it was, a Medic and an Ubercharged enemy could destroy it all the same. And that's how it's supposed to be - TF2 is a game about counters and balances, not unbeatable defenses. Always keep in mind that your gun is there to help the team, not replace it, and that despite your best efforts you will lose sentries. The trick is getting the most out of it while it's still alive, and hopefully this rambling essay has helped a bit in that regard.

edited 29th Jun '11 11:07:42 AM by Tacitus

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

Also, just because someone on your team is rocking the <Insert Class Here>, being the best member, for the love of GOD, do NOT let everyone on the team become the exact same class. Stick to what you're best at. (Seriously, spoken from Experience.)

Is it selfish that I'm happy as we pass the setting sun?

> but one special circumstance is worth mentioning.

Two circumstances.

Level three sentry rockets are airblast-reflectable.

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   

Well, if someone is playing on the server where pyros can pull THAT feat without dying, he either doesn't need advice at all, or the difference in skill is so great that no amount of newbie advice will help.

edited 29th Jun '11 11:38:39 AM by Drakovicz

Has a compulsive editing and re-editing disorder.

Ok, as I keep seeing this happening online these days, I am going to warn scouts once more:

If you stand still, you WILL get killed. You are the fastest class. Don't waste your main advantage playing the sitting duck.

The 'more precise' aiming is NOT worth it.

The Great Northern Threadkill.

Especially since Scouts don't need to aim that much, since they need to shove a gun up the enemy's ass in order to do actual damage.

Shortstop doesn't really do it for me, though. Too little damage in too many shots. Mad Milk is good though. I wonder how good a Fa N and MM combo would do. Bit dangerous since I have to constantly reload with no actual back-up weapon, but it also earns me full health whenever I hit anyone hard enough. Sound like a plan, I guess.

Also, I got a Summer Cooler. With no idea what to do with it. Do I need to find a special key or something?

Apparently there will be an event. I suggest you keep it and wait.

As for the Scout, I like my Scattergun, Mad Milk and Candy Cane combo.

With each frag I get a tiny health pack, and I can use the Milk against bad encounters with pyroes. I don't feel particularly bad for losing the Pistol since I was barely using it before anyway.

Did I mention I get the health pack when I frag with ANY weapon? I really love the increased survivability the Candy Cane offers.

The Great Northern Threadkill.

YES! It's actually not that common to get ridiculed as to get an actual answer. People rip on the n00bs who do stupid shit and never learn. A newb who's actually trying to learn and understand is not only refreshing, but shows a lot of potential. Some of the best guys I knew in TFC started off on my clan's servers as complete newbs but asked questions and learned.

Go in advanced options and turn on the option to reload whenever you aren't shooting. There is literally no reason not to turn that on. Well, maybe if you're a spy or sniper... but fuck them anyways.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit

Erch. I tried auto-reload once, and switched back after 5 minutes. I absolutely hated it. I prefer to reload manually.

But, oh well, I guess it's a question of taste and how you like to play.

The Great Northern Threadkill.

Auto reload is brilliant, since I can't even get close to matching my controller skill with M+KB controls and I always end up calling Medic instead of reloading and consequently dying.

That said, I've mostly played Medic at this point, some Scout and Soldier and my old console haunt, Pyro.

Jesus the Pyro is epic on PC.

Curse the ill fortune that led you to me.

Yo, F 2 P friendos, listen up.

1. Spies? It may seem like a fun idea to run up to me and stab me in the face, but then I shoot you and it isn't so much fun for you anymore. Go for the back, guys.

2. Pyros? Spy-check like a motherfucker.

3. Engies? If your buildings are being sapped, and there's a member of your own team standing next to you doing nothing, shoot him. Trust me on this one.

4. Snipers? A few things; the SMG is not your main weapon, unscope whenever you can and take a look around to check for spies and such, and take off that Razorback, you're embarrassing yourself.

5. If you're unsure about something, feel free to ask the server.

6. Type coherently. Make a good impression.

7. Try not to be Brazilian or Russian. If you are, please have the courtesy to type in English, and don't ever laugh.

Follow these handy tips, and you'll be as good a TF 2 player as I am!

I'm okay.

"Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste."

Brass Beast is great for Payload. You put yourself either on top of or in front of the cart, and just fire endlessly.

As someone who's rocks the Gunslinger Engineer, let me give some advice.

1) Always. ALWAYS built teleporters. I can not stress this enough. The teleporter is literally the most important building the Engineer has. This lets the rest of your team move up much faster. They'll love you for it.

2) That extra HP is there for a reason With the Gunslinger this gives you 150 Health, while this isn't enough to charge into the front lines, it lets you move around a bit better. Ideally you hang slightly behind a strong combat class like Solider and Heavy.

3) The Mini-Sentry is powerful, fast, and disposable. This is the most important weapon in your arsenal. It lets you fire on enemies from two places at once. It comes up fast so just rapidly setting up one in the middle of combat is viable. And since it's so cheap and fast it's easy to just blow it up when the front lines moved rather then bother with moving it.

4) Use only one other unlock at a time. The Engineer has two gun unlocks that go with the Gunslinger.

• The Frontier Justice. This shotgun has a clip size of three. However it collects "Revenge Crits" for each kill and assist that your Sentry/Mini-Sentry get. Once the Sentry gets blown up, these are then activated and you get guaranteed critical hits. This video demonstrates the power of Revenge Crits. Note how I manage to take out two Heavies with it.
• The Wrangler. A weapon that replaces your pistol. This allows you to take direct control of your Sentry and make it fire where you want it to fire. The firing speed of the sentry doubles as well, plus it gains a shield that reduces damage and makes it harder to destroy.

While it may be tempting to use both at once, I recommend against it. Why? Simple enough, if you use both you only have the Frontier Justice to defend yourself with if someone gets directly in your face. Those three shots will mean you need to reload a lot. And when you're reloading, you're not firing. And while it's fine if you're using it as a powerful crit dispenser, it's troublesome if it's your only means of direct offense.

Personally my loadout tends to be Frontier Justice/Pistol/Gunslinger. I hang slightly behind the front lines, my Mini-Sentry and Pistol harrasing the enemies and softening them up for the combat classes to take down, and then when I'm ready I smash through with the Revenge Crtis.

More Engie advice:

Get yer butt to the intel room: If there isn't a sentry in the intel room, for the love of god BUILD ONE. The entire objective of the game is to get that intel, and one way or another the other team needs to get into that room. It should be obvious why a sentry needs to be in there. Even if another Engie beats you to it, go help him set up, there's no such thing as building too early.

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!

Engies, this might seem like a no-brainer, but do not use the mini-sentry for defensive purposes. You'd be surprised at how many people do this.

edited 30th Jun '11 4:24:27 PM by SoberIrishman

"Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste."

Another no-brainer, but: If there is 3 of one class on your team, then someone needs to switch unless the team is still doing well.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Unless of course you're using it to get the hell outta Dodge and need a short distraction. The low metal cost is a godsend if that happens.

edited 30th Jun '11 5:48:18 PM by hnd03

So. Let's all pause for a moment to smell what the Rock was, is, and forever will be... cooking.—Cave Johnson

As a spy, if you're cloaked, for God's sake DO NOT UNCLOAK Next to someone. your new diet will be metal and pain. If you're disguised but cloaked, try and sneak into the opponents base, find somewhere safe to Decloak, and run out, It'll make it look like you're on their side.

Is it selfish that I'm happy as we pass the setting sun?

And please, Spies, if you're using the Dead Ringer, hide next to my Dispenser after sapping it and my Sentry, I "kill" you and you uncloak next to my Dispsenser again, you deserve a Wrench to the face.

edited 30th Jun '11 5:59:10 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

I'm considering taking up this game, since a good friend recommended it. I'm a decent Quake player, so is there any places that overlap/stuff I need to unlearn from that going into this?

<><

Well, maybe not. One thing to keep in mind is that you're playing for an objective in Team Fortress 2 like capturing the Flag or capping a point or somesuch. Rocket and Sticky jumping is possible, weapons have damage falloff over long distances, etc.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Okay, question, how the hell do I stop Spies from constantly killing me and my sentries? Even when I'm constantly Spy checking and I'm up against a wall, they always seem to catch me. It's in infuriating and none of my teammates ever seem to be concerned with doing a spy check and I don't have time seeing as I'm maintaining base operations.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

I am not that much of an engineer myself, but I have learned one crucial thing when playing Spy, which I called the ' First rule of Spy' ( yeah, I know, I am pompous like that sometimes):

In a melee fight, the Spy will ALWAYS take the critshots and die.

So, all I can tell to an engie is wrench, wrench, and wrench some more.

Wrench everybody. Stay close to your sentry. Keep your back to a wall. If you can, try to keep a pyro buddy near you. Even better if he has a degreaser/homewrecker combo.

Also, stay alert. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Also, WRENCH.

Edit: Could we have any specifics about the loadout of the Spies killing you? Which weapons do they use?

edited 30th Jun '11 7:39:49 PM by OrangeSpider

The Great Northern Threadkill.

There were a variety of stuff they had, so take your pick. I was the Spy kick can until I went Pyro and then they all mysteriously disappeared but I could find them. Cunty little mother fuckers.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.