So, is this a mary sue trait?

On mary sue traits taken from this

Well... In my story, Tomas Anderson had a friend-with-benefits, said friend want them to be actual boyfriend, Tomas refuses because... the guy is ugly (or not pretty enough, whatever). Would that fall into the Mary Sue trait? Tomas doesn't tell the real reason why he refused, just saying that he "wasn't ready". Tomas current boyfriend hears the truth about it and says it wasn't "nice" of him, but doesn't spends a lot of time trying to make Tomas feel better.

edited 18th Jun '11 11:29:09 AM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

It would be a bit jerkish, but not inherently mary sueish.

Read my stories!

If you have to ask, then it probably does. The thing with most Mary Sue traits is that they aren't necessary bad, just hard to use well. Author Self Inserts for example, while universally reviled in the fan fiction and amateur writing scene, have actually served as the protagonists of some of the most celebrated literary works of all time.

The point is, Mary Sue tests are unreliable, and only see use by writers lacking in self confidence, or people looking to "prove" that a character they dislike is a Mary Sue.

This is a signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

It is sort of relevant and a reason for him to give his boyfriend a chance...

the story is waaaay more complicated than that, first of anything, is a luminosity fic xp

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

The only things that are automatic Sue traits are

• Manipulating breaking universe laws to the charecters' will
• Making the universe revolve around them
• Immediately gain abilities/outshine people without effort
• Make Characters act OOC or against their established characterization
• Possessing no flaws that effect them negativley

Anything else is just how you use it.

He receives a fair amount of help, but the helpers had their own motivations to do such, and are loaded with money/power.

My character lacks both, and gains an ability at the end of the story, but for most of it... he is your average human. I still have problems with character flaws besides a little ones... it is so complicated, I probably should have posted a summary of the story xp

edited 18th Jun '11 1:41:37 PM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

Flaws that feel forced are just as bad as flaws that don't affect a character negatively. Your character's flaws need to be a part of him and perhaps even be a result from his strengths (an arrogant mastermind, for example, who is arrogant because he knows he can manipulate events for his benefit).

hum... I was thinking that he could act cowardly, for example, the character is gay and there is this butch girl*

in his school who is pretty much a invisible ghost to the rest of the people there. He goes with the flow and ignores her too.

Going by your advice "flaws related by strenght"... maybe he can come up with good decisions when he has time to think, but hates or can't think fast... I don't know >.>

I feel that he isn't a Purity Sue, but he also lacks servere problems...

edited 18th Jun '11 5:16:41 PM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

>Immediately gain abilities/outshine people without effort

My character lives in a world where due to politics war is still basically pursued with melee weapons (some skirmishers and special forces have guns) despite being at a tech level around WWII. His superpower, among other things, allows him to learn and perfectly reproduce martial arts moves (it's a form of Bullet Time without any Super-Speed), which in the mostly-melee world is extremely powerful. I ran through that test and did a double-take at that entry, because he does, indeed, gain skills unrealistically fast (there's a scene where he is learning a martial art, alternating between power and no-power mode, and being taken down just as easily as any other student in no-power while actually beating the teacher in power mode), but I think the way I've handled it keeps it from being a Sue (Stu?) trait. Is it?

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)

Keep in mind that having a Mary Sue trait doesn't means that you character is automatically bad, just that you have reasons to watch out for Mary Sue-ness

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

Yeah, I'm aware, and the char didn't get anywhere near actual Mary Sue territory on the test. What I wondered was that, as I have it, it doesn't even look to me like a warning sign for Sueness (unless it's an overwhelming power in context, which it isn't).

I wonder how you could write the other Mary Sue traits in a non-Sueish way? The hardest are the 'everyone always agrees with them and anyone who disagrees gets pwned'; those smack of the author using authorial privilege to wish-fulfill.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)

As seen in many sue-deconstructions: Mind Control or Reality Warper. Not sure if there's any way you could play that straight without getting a Sue, though.

To begin with, Mary Sue was supposed to be all about a few very specific traits, on top of the more general, story-breaking, audience-demoralizing, author-shilling thing.

The idea that that pretty narrow archetype could legitimately be spread out to apply to so many different narrative structures and genres to begin with was kind of a bad one.

So honestly, you're probably better off ignoring the traits altogether until you've actually taken the time to write a good, compelling character.

If people are really going to give you shit over characters with purple hair, or because their name has only shallow symbolic meaning, then you're probably better off setting the more fundamental parts up first, and taking their silly advice on how you should play dress up later.

Or you could just not bother trying to attract an audience to whom rare eye colors, mentioned even occasionally, are going to be deal breakers.

Tomas has a regular boy-friend AND a friend with benefits. He's a jerk. Lots and lots of people yearning for him would be a Sue-ish trait.

The point of Mary Sue is not ANY powers at all. The point is WAY TOO many powers.

Although I won the test, I don't trust it.

"(1) Harmony is only a little like you. (2)She isn't really very cool: (3) she blends into crowds, (4) she hangs out on the fringes at parties, and (5) wearing shades after dark makes her run into things. (6) She may have sometimes thought that she was special, or destined for greater things, but probably dismissed the idea as a fantasy. (7) She's got no emotional scars to speak of. (8) And you've been sparing with the free handouts: (9) whatever she gains, she's worked for.

(10) In general, you care deeply about Harmony, (11) but you're smart enough to let her stand on her own, without burdening her with your personal fantasies or (12) propping her up with idealization and over-dramatization. (13) Harmony is a healthy character with a promising career ahead of her."

1) and 7) to 13) are correct. The rest are wrong in various ways. Harmony is the eponymous Royal Brat from Star Gate Atlantis plus some bells and whistles to fit my World (Renaissance tech plus Wizards and Hobbits and Elves, oh my!) 2) She is cool, she is an obscenely rich Aristo. 3) and 4) She demands to be the centre of attention. 5) is irrelevant with Renaissance tech. (6) There is a prophecy that she will be Doge of the mighty Renaissance City state, but this a background detail, the story is set while she is age 13.

edited 19th Jun '11 9:59:28 AM by Trotzky

Liberty! Equality! Fraternity!

the "AND" bit is incorret, Tomas HAD a friends-with-benefits two years ago, two years later he got a boyfriend... Have any of you guys read Luminosity? It is so much easier to understand xP

edited 19th Jun '11 11:02:44 AM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

"Have any of you guys read" or "Did any of you guys read," dearie.

Read my stories!

fixed, the question still stands.

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

The guy calls him out on it, so no, it doesn't sound Sue-ish.

What's the point in giving up when you know you'll never stop anyway?

The character sort of calls himself out of it... I mean: the friends-with-benefits doesn't know the real reason, but it is hurt anyway, they start a fight the protagonist's brother hears it, thereby finding that both are gay, the brother kicks the friend out of the house and shouts/fights with the protagonist.

EDIT: The friends-with-benefits is from the same class than the brother (two years older), the protagonist starts hanging out with them and when the fight happens the protagonist also loses his immediate circle of friends (who also end up graduating and moving anyaway). So pretty much the character comes to realize that he just lost his opportunity of first love for being very shallow xP

edited 20th Jun '11 5:34:33 PM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

I wouldn't say guilt is automatically a Sue trait. Guilt is a normal human emotion, and pretty much everyone has done something they're not proud of. The idea behind the question is probably something along the lines of "does your character feel guilty over something he did in the past and constantly wangst about it?"

What's the point in giving up when you know you'll never stop anyway?

By the time of the story "proper" he stopped angsting, thought it comes to influence why he made a decision (he promised himself to never hurt anyone like that again)

EDIT: he has dreams/nightmares with the friend-with-benefits. He later admits that those are silly dreams, but they might still mean something that his mind wants to tell him xP

edited 20th Jun '11 5:38:32 PM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

So he's not wangsty, gets called out when he does something jerkish, and goes through Character Development. Not a Sue.

What's the point in giving up when you know you'll never stop anyway?

This incident also causes him to stay in the closet for the rest of his family (the brother sort-of forces him to, making him feel guilty), again he isn't really against, but at the start of the story he hasn't come out yet.

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.

Like Jewely J said, Mary Sues have no flaws that affect them negatively. You've avoided that with Tomas, as his shallowness has consequences for him.

What's the point in giving up when you know you'll never stop anyway?

He became less shallow thougth (and somehow more considerated), he does have something of a paranoia over homophobia I guess, that combines with his shallowness makes him assume that a isolated girl is a lesbian (she isn't, she is just butch and ugly)

EDIT: Should be noted that this whole fight with friend-with-benefits happens as the character background and is elaborated on further in the middle of the story.

edited 20th Jun '11 6:20:10 PM by Bluelantern2814

"Here to welcome our new golden-eyed overlords," said Addy promptly.