Trigun vs. Cowboy Bebop

So I don't get it. I don't understand Cowboy Bebop's popularity.

I made this exact thread a few other places and everyone votes for CB. I first thought of the topic when someone told me CB was so good because "there wasn't anything quite like it at the time." Of course the Trigun anime came out roughly the same time so I had to point it out.

I've rewatched Trigun a couple times and I'm reading the manga now. I made it through eighteen episodes of CB and then gave up. It as not the bestest anime ever like I was promised by everyone I had ever known in the anime fandom. In fact, I thought it was pretty average.

The episodic nature of the series made me constantly feel like I was wasting my time. A new episode would start, some character irrelevant to the plot would show up, and then the epsidoe would end. Hardly any real character development or plot progression at all.

What's more, unless Spike got some major character growth in the last 8 eps, he doesn't hold a candle to Vash. Vahs's backstory, his determination, the way the plot centers around his struggle to assert his ideology in a harsh and unforgiving world, it kinda blows away Spike's...whatever he had. I think he had a personality every few episodes.

But enough of me ranting. As I said, I just don't get it. What is so great about Cowboy Bebop and why does it make it better than Trigun?

edited 2nd Jun '11 3:32:12 AM by Nikkolas

As for plot and characterization, it's really a mater of preference. Trigun had well executed "anime type" (term I have just invented) plot (a very strong presence of a dramatic conducting storyline, even if it has an episodic start to provide a setup) and characters (which generally involve a lot of emphasis in backstory, big decisions and introspection, usually through inner monologue, extended flashbacks and the like). Cowboy Bebop is significantly more Western, the characterization is subtler, usually conveyed through actions and interactions between the characters, and the plot is merely an underlying thread that comes up every few episodes. CB is an episodic show, and each episode is supposed to be enjoyed standalone.

All of which comes to the point, which is that they are fundamentally different shows. It's true that there are superficial similiarities, but I see Trigun having much more in comon with Samurai X (I'd use the japanese name, but I can't spell that fucker to save my life) than with Cowboy Bebop. It's perfectly fine for you to prefer Trigun over Bebop as it is for me to prefer Pizza over Burgers.

One thing that I do consider Cowboy Bebop did better is the general style of the series: The setting, general aesthetics, soundtrack and voice acting all blend together to create an excellent atmosphere. I felt that Trigun was more mish-mashy in that respect. I also thought the dialogue in general was more clever (in the dub, at least), but then again, that's yet another matter of preference.

Well there's your problem. The major strength of Cowboy Bebop is the episodic nature of the series makes it easy to get into and more familiar to Western audiences. If that's not what you're looking for, then of course you're not going to like it.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Now don't get me wrong, because I like Vash a lot, and his inner struggles are interesting. But Spike is more like an actual person to me specifically because his inner self is not on display all the time. The word 'cowboy' is right there in the title - heroes in Westerns are mysterious men with shady pasts they'd rather not discuss.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!

Weird, I preferred the episodic stuff in CB. Hated the main plot thread.

Haven't seen Trigun yet so I can't comment on that.

As said, they are different shows. One's about broke, starving bounty hunters IN SPACE!! The other one's about a genetic experiment running wild on a desert planet.

I'm one who kind of likes episodic stuff, but I know a lot of people who don't. They'll insist the introduction of a story arc in a former victim of the week/monster of the week show is when it gets better, but I'll rarely agree. So I'm more inclined to say Cowboy Bebop. Neither one of them had particularly interesting archenemy though. Vicious, was lame, Knives was lame.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

I always wonder why Gungrave never gets brought into these discussions. Yeah, the animation sucks compared to both series, but the story's pretty damned neat.

Y'know what else I don't see mentioned much? Heat Guy J. Back when they were all only a few years old people compared that show to Trigun all the time; I never saw it, but it was always the first thing people recommended when I said I liked Trigun.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!

Because neither of those were on American TV back in the day, so they did not get the same gateway publicity, probably.

Ahh. See, I didn't have tv during Trigun and Cowboy Bebop's heyday, so I only heard about good series to watch online or from friends at school.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!

Goodness, I didn't even realize people pitted the two shows against each other... they may have a few similarities, but they're unique enough to each other that I see no reason to enjoy both. In my eternally humble opinion*

Bebop has the edge in animation, Trigun has the stronger story arc, and both have compelling setup and backstory and characters that I would love to spend a day at the bar with. (I have visions of Vash trying to flirt with Faye- Hilarity Ensues.)

It's sort of like steak and lobster- there are people who prefer one or the other, people who like both, and people who will pass on either. And then, there's surf and turf.

If it helps, one more newbie has just heard about both series from you. *Adds to ridiculously long MAL queue*

edited 2nd Jun '11 9:56:36 AM by Mamanerd

"An empty stomach is not a good political advisor" - Albert Einstein Anime list

I'm not sure Trigun really has that strong of a story arc. The anime kind of falls apart near the end. And before that it started with episodic goofball stuff and continued into Monster of the Week plots while the main story was going on. That said, I do prefer it to Cowboy Bebop. The Vicious/Spike/Julia dynamic didn't interest me and I only found a handful of the episodes to really be that interesting. If I watched it again, it would probably improve my opinion of the show, but I don't really care enough to.

It's not as old as the other two, to have had an influence when the western anime fandom was old, but not new enough to be remembered on its own (the Escaflowne character designs don't help, some may like them, but they look "old", for a lack of a better word). It was still a pretty cool series, and the soundtrack was unusual enough to amuse me.

I do agree that Trigun got pretty WTF-ish near the end- from what I understand, the manga has a much stronger resolution, so I might check that out sometime. Both Trigun and Bebop are definitely episodic at heart- but perhaps that's what makes them good Gateway Series, a new viewer can sample them a little at a time and get comfortable with the medium. Just a theory.

edited 2nd Jun '11 10:18:52 AM by Mamanerd

"An empty stomach is not a good political advisor" - Albert Einstein Anime list

Watch Gun X Sword. It's basically what would happen if Cowboy Bebop and Trigun had a child... WITH GIANT ROBOTS!

And it's surprisingly good.

But yeah, I prefer Cowboy Bebop to Trigun. Reasons later today when I have more time.

Personally, I find Vash irritating in the extreme. I think the character of Spike may be mildly overrated, but I still like him. And I would take him over Vash any day! I liked Cowboy Bebop largely because of the characters. They aren't your typical anime fare for the most part. Trigun had a bunch of rather steriotypical characters. The only Trigun characters I really liked a lot were some of the villains, and even they were pretty cliche. I think that both anime are overrated, but I think that Cowboy Bebop was good whereas Trigun was rather mediocre.

edited 2nd Jun '11 11:32:34 AM by hishighnessofheretics

Don't like Vash but you do like the villains... tell me, what's your opinion of Death Note?

It's demonicdisciple, dude. That's his new account. Or are you just testing to see if it's him?

Of course you find Vash irritating. You seem to have an allergic reaction to idealism.

edited 2nd Jun '11 11:56:55 AM by Thenamelesssamurai

Imagine Rakan applying Calling Your Attacks to doing paperwork.~Anarchy Rakan for the hell of it COMMISSION THIS BRIDGE!~EHK

Well, pacifism is very annoying when you see it fail in the short term.

A True Lady's Quest - A Jojo is You!

I was wondering if it was him. I don't go into the Death Note thread or other places I'd be likely to see him. My guess of it being him is based entirely off that one post.

Good to know you're predictable on that score, Emperor Zaige/Demonic Disciple/Probably a third name I can't recall offhand!

edited 2nd Jun '11 12:26:16 PM by Arha

I don't just find Vash to be annoying because of his idealism (though that certainly is a factor). I find his cutesy, hyper way of acting annoying as well. When you have had people try to force-feed you touchy-feely bullshit philosophy all your life despite everything in life proving how untrue it is, you tend to end up adopting such an attitude as mine.

Trigun was more fun imo, it wasn't groundbreaking or anything but still fun. Cowboy Bebop bored the hell out of me.

"Liar liar on the wall, give the world to me..."

Well i kinda like them both ^^. I like Trigun mainly because I remember reading the Manga as a child, and Cowboy bebop for how awsome it is.

Bluuuuuuuuh. This was the only Trigun thread I could find, and this just came to me - Kantianism in Trigun. I mean think about it. No matter what, Vash won't abandon his ideals even when it seems outright stupid not to, especially in regards to his brother. The setting of the show is inherently biased to a utilitarian philosophy. But the one thing that stands out in the show is Vash's refusal to change his morals based on the circumstances, to an inspiring degree. So yeah, I think this is worth discussing in a philosophical context

edited 11th Aug '14 9:34:09 PM by Xopher001