Follow TV Tropes

Following

Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

Go To

First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.

With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.

First, a few starter questions.

  • How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
  • Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
    • Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
  • Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
  • Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?

Also, a personal question from me.

  • Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?

edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf

terlwyth Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#3176: Jul 6th 2014 at 2:32:01 PM

Ethnocentrism is also a fair enough term if the prejudice stems more from the culture than the mere borders as Xenophobia would imply

Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter
QueenPanic from Dublin Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Heisenberg unreliable
Wicked223 from Death Star in the forest Since: Apr, 2009
#3178: Jul 7th 2014 at 10:56:12 AM

Erasure and whitewashing in YA book covers:

a YA book features a white, female protagonist (and this accounts for a not insignificant portion of YA released each year), it seems inevitable that the book cover will display an idealized and airbrushed masterpiece of her on the cover. And when a YA book actually does have a protagonist of color, too often one of three things seems to happen: The cover is “whitewashed” and shows a Caucasian model instead of a person of color; The cover depicts someone whose race seems purposefully ambiguous or difficult to discern; or The character is shown in silhouette These forms of racism on the part of publishers are unacceptable. And the fact that it is so rampant within the young adult publishing industry seems particularly despicable. The first step toward change is awareness, and so below I’ve tried to pull together a collection of examples of these forms of subtle and not-so-subtle racism.

You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!
OrionCK2 Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Hiding
#3179: Jul 7th 2014 at 11:53:39 AM

[up]Silhouetting doesn't seem racist imo, it's just a style of art to pull attention and I've seen that on books with white protagonists as well. I agree with most the rest of that, though

DrStarky Okay Guy from Corn And Pig Land Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Staying up all night to get lucky
Okay Guy
#3180: Jul 7th 2014 at 12:11:36 PM

Silhouetting isn't racist by itself, but if it's done to much a higher degree to POC than white people than that's a problem.

Put me in motion, drink the potion, use the lotion, drain the ocean, cause commotion, fake devotion, entertain a notion, be Nova Scotian
Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#3181: Jul 7th 2014 at 6:03:14 PM

This is pretty great sketch about the state of racism in professional sports:

chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#3182: Jul 7th 2014 at 7:12:27 PM

[up][up]

Silhouetting isn't racist by itself, but if it's done to much a higher degree to POC than white people than that's a problem.

From an artistic standpoint, you have chiaroscuro, a style that depends on contrasting light and dark, and not out of racism but because of ease of clarity, light-skinned subjects just work better. I think one of the best (modern) example of this is Elizabeth in Bio Shock Infinite. For the same reason, the stark contrast of silhouette works exceptionally well for symbolism in relation to race as it relates to people of color (this has a strong amount of reclamation in book covers featuring stark black faces, sometimes exaggerated with text in light color over and/or around said face; Chinua Achebe's iconic Things Fall Apart comes to mind). Although in the world of film and video games, this may overlap more with Color Coded For Your Convenience and in reference to Po C, also Unfortunate Implications nearly as often.

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#3183: Jul 8th 2014 at 4:22:02 AM

Criticising someone's height should be socially unacceptable, says John Bercow, British House of Commons Speaker.

John Bercow has suggested making fun of someone because of their height should be as socially unacceptable as homophobia or racism. The Commons speaker, who has previously been referred to as a “stupid sanctimonious dwarf” during a debate in the House, said his height did not bother him.

But Mr Bercow, who is 5ft 6ins tall (1.7m), said it was unacceptable that people were criticised on the basis of how tall they are, and this could be taken as offensive.

"Whereas nobody these days would regard it as acceptable to criticise someone on grounds of race or creed or disability or sexual orientation, somehow it seems to be acceptable to comment on someone's height, or lack of it,” he said. "Does it affect me, personally? Not at all. It's just low grade, intellectually substandard and schoolboyish."

edited 8th Jul '14 4:22:51 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
demarquis Who Am I? from Hell, USA Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
Who Am I?
#3184: Jul 8th 2014 at 4:31:39 AM

Slow week in the British Parliament?

"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#3185: Jul 8th 2014 at 4:33:55 AM

Not really - turns out there was a Parliamentary pedophile ring operating through the 1980s.

Bercow's just blowing off steam because he's a midget.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
KingZeal Since: Oct, 2009
#3186: Jul 8th 2014 at 8:36:20 AM

He's the same height I am. Hardly a midget.

Ironically, it's because of similar experiences that I think his argument is correct, if his methods are stupid. Height harassment shouldn't be any more acceptable than any other form of harassment or bigotry, but unless we're talking about putting all short people in ghettos or denying them the right to marry, comparing it to other social justice issues is just flat out ignorant and insulting.

QueenPanic from Dublin Since: Jan, 2014 Relationship Status: Heisenberg unreliable
#3187: Jul 8th 2014 at 9:08:35 AM

Actually, I see his point, to a certain extent. There is definitely discrimination against people suffering with dwarfism and other related conditions, that does occasionally cross over with other types of prejudice because of it being an actual disability. That's ableism, and is definitely on the same level as racism and homophobia and sexism.

But he's not abnormally short or disabled because of his height. He's just not as tall as the average male. By a few inches.

It's rude to make fun of his height, but unless it heads into ableism, it's not quite on the same level as racism and homophobia. By using himself as an example, he's making the whole argument look ridiculous, and hurting people who are suffering real height discrimination.

The Commons speaker, who has previously been referred to as a “stupid sanctimonious dwarf” during a debate in the House, said his height did not bother him.
This I do actually have a problem with. Dwarfism is actually a medical condition. Using 'dwarf' as an insult isn't right either. But it's like when people call each other gay as an insult. At the end of the day, it's more damaging to those who are gay than the person being insulted. Calling Bercow a dwarf as an insult is more damaging to people with dwarfism than to Bercow himself.

BlueNinja0 The Mod with the Migraine from Taking a left at Albuquerque Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Mod with the Migraine
#3188: Jul 13th 2014 at 6:39:05 PM

Baltimore study shows poor whites have clear benefit over poor blacks. For the tldr crowd, it appears that despite the same levels of poverty and lack of education, whites have stronger family ties and are more likely to have steady cohabitation/marriage than blacks, resulting in half the unemployment and twice the income for the same set of job skills and education. Not said in the article is anything on drug policy and law enforcement, aside from noting that whites with criminal records are overwhelmingly still able to find jobs compared to blacks. (I also take some issue with their definition of "poor" given that the whites in their study make as much money as I do.)

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw
Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#3189: Jul 13th 2014 at 7:22:58 PM

That doesn't surprise me. Having the right connections is often much more important than having money.

wuggles Since: Jul, 2009
#3190: Jul 14th 2014 at 9:21:49 AM

I've heard that before. I think it's also because you don't really have a lot of black families that have been wealthy for generations and thus are able to secure connections and the like for their kids. Most extremely wealthy black people today are Rags to Riches stories. I also remember the study where they sent out fake resumes and white people with criminal records got more interviews than black people without criminal records.

edited 14th Jul '14 9:22:41 AM by wuggles

Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#3192: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:17:18 AM

I have a little scenario I would like you people's opinions on.

Assume that there is a Minority character, this character is generally strong, kind and intelligent, and is, in general, looked upon favorably and respected by his in-universe peers.

But.

This character also happens to be a foreigner who is not very good with the native language and, as such, he sometimes intimidates people who he tries to talk with, and does not comes across as all that smart. (You will, in general, have an easier time telling that about him with his inner monologues and/or when he switchs to his home language)

Would you guys consider this character problematic or not? Why?

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#3193: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:18:51 AM

Saint, you basically just described Heavy Weapons Guy XD

Depends on what you mean by "problematic"

edited 14th Jul '14 10:19:45 AM by Aszur

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
Zennistrad from The Multiverse Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: I don't mind being locked in this eternal maze!
#3194: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:24:00 AM

Eh, I don't really see the issue with it. It'd be a bit eyebrow-raising if the character was genuinely as stupid as he seemed to be to the other characters, but a character who causes culture clash simply by virtue of him being from a different culture doesn't really strike me as racist since the exact same thing happens commonly in real life.

Racism in media generally stems from other races being portrayed unrealistically and in an unflattering fashion.

Of course, I'm a white guy who's spent his entire life in his home country, so I could just be talking out of my ass.

edited 14th Jul '14 10:24:34 AM by Zennistrad

wuggles Since: Jul, 2009
#3195: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:24:24 AM

It depends. Is he the only minority character? If so then yeah I would find it kind of problematic, or at the very least cliche.

SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#3196: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:25:56 AM

[up][up][up]"Promotes racist and/or xenophobic assumptions and stereotypes about a particular group."

edited 14th Jul '14 10:26:08 AM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#3197: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:27:19 AM

I agree with wuggles in that if he is the only Minority character he seems to be a lot more like a Token character or a cliche character placed there to appease a certain audience, or serve a quota.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
SaintDeltora The Mistress from The Land Of Corruption and Debauchery Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
The Mistress
#3198: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:30:27 AM

What if he is the only representative of one particular group, but he also represented other groups of which other characters are also part of?

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#3199: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:35:16 AM

[up] Depending on the groups involved, it could still be called tokenism.

Keep Rolling On
Gabrael from My musings Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Is that a kind of food?
#3200: Jul 14th 2014 at 10:36:20 AM

I don't mind him being the only one so long as there was a good reason. Making him the solo voice could be a way to bring up issues of racism and xenophobia and cultural baggage.

I do highly recommend having both his internal dialogue and how others are seeing it. The frustration or any other feelings that come from this can be important to giving a message.

There are a few books I know that do this well, Grendal, Londonstani, Fight Club, and The Reluctant Fundamentalist.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Total posts: 27,466
Top