The Field of Honor

...And why did it vanish?*

Once upon a time, people were allowed to call out someone in a physical contest over points of honor. If another person besmirched your good name, you could deliver unto him a sound thrashing. People were more polite in this era.

Now, we can insult each other anonymously and pay no price for it. Consequently, humanity has degenerated into a whiny, inconsiderate mass of adipose-addled douche-twats with no regard for principle (or physical fitness, for that matter.)

Now, I don't think shooting each other over insults is a good idea. Stabbing another person because of some imagined slight is foolish. But the concept of risking physical pain over deeply held principles has vanished from our society, and I think we've lost something.

Perhaps I'm living in the wrong era, but if someone insults my lady in my presence, I'm going after him. And I'll sleep well (in my jail cell) that night, knowing I've done right.

Sometimes adversity is merely the price one pays to accomplish something necessary.

Anyhow, thoughts?

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Bitches be tracking down your IP addresses and taking you to court more and more often over Internet-related disputes, yo.

Fuckin' A, brother.

Way I see it, if someone's not willing to take a fist to the face for their beliefs, they aren't a supporter of that belief.

In the same vein, if I had a chick and someone was calling her a whore or whatever I'd beat the living shit outta that asshole.

But I agree, people have devolved into utter assholes because with the advent of the internet, people have lost the concept of the Dickhead Line - which is the line that if you are too much of a dick and cross it, getting punched the fuck out is a real possibility.

Do you consider Might Makes Right an acceptable risk? I mean stuff like what if I was a 6'11" wrestler and decided that I didn't like people who said that 2+2=4.

edited 23rd May '11 10:04:13 PM by melloncollie

@Leradny: they're welcome to try.

@Mark: -brofist-

@mellon: There's always someone bigger. People who go around starting trouble tend to run into them. You're probably used to such people getting their way because under the current system, there's no real recourse for the bullied.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Manomachism sounds good, but it turned out to have severe negative consequences. All it takes is one bigger guy to suppress others.

Or one richer.

But under that system, there wasn't any recourse for the bullied either.

Disagree and I'll wander into the next room and thump you for it.

edited 23rd May '11 10:07:55 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Hi!

While the field of honor had some good points (like the aforementioned accountability) it also had its bad points.

Like "it really didn't prove anything except who was the better shot/swordsman/whatever weapon-ist".

Like "if he was better than you, you didn't go to sleep in your jail cell, you went to the cemetery or the hospital, and now your lady has lost you, as well as been insulted."

Like "it didn't really do anything about bullies, as long as they were smart enough to pick on people who weren't as good a whatever as they were."

edited 23rd May '11 10:08:57 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

I meant that the veil of so-called anonymity you were lamenting in the OP is being torn down as technology advances. Soon, disputes over the Internet will have the same consequences as any real life fight—it'll just take a bit longer for said consequences to get rolling.

@Maddie: Yes, all true, which is probably why we abandoned it. You'll note I wasn't advocating a return to the lethal forms of dueling, but rather the time when a fistfight was an acceptable method of expressing displeasure.

After all, you only live once...but bruises teach better than anything else.

Also, in my experience bullies aren't usually that smart. Sooner or later, they fuck up and pay.

@Leradny: If that worked, GIFT wouldn't exist.

edited 23rd May '11 10:13:37 PM by drunkscriblerian

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

This is true. Often times nothing teaches one that they are wrong quite like a good old fashioned ass-whooping.

I didn't say it was in effect now. I said that in the future, Internet anonymity will no longer be as strong as it was in its fledgling days when no one understood much about it.

edited 23rd May '11 10:15:16 PM by Leradny

I'm not, actually, I've had maybe close to zero experience with bullies and such.

From what I've seen here though, people who are bullied tend to be... people who aren't good at physical fights. So it's back to square one.

Well to those who are bullied and not got at fighting, there's always cheating.

I.E jump the bully with a metal baseball bat.

But then that's not really honorable, and all the strong people have no incentive to be honorable either, and then everybody's cheating and it's square one again.

But much like politics, it's who can cheat BETTER. There's an art to cheating and yet looking honorable.

To quote Smokey Yunick: "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'."

edited 23rd May '11 10:19:03 PM by MarkVonLewis

@Lerady: the future has this nasty habit of turning into the present, and not changing much in the bargain.

@Mellon: grow stronger. Or be more polite. Part and parcel of the "Field of Honor" system was that picking on people was very much looked down upon. A man picked a fight with a man his size, or he was a coward. The smaller man generally had family who would avenge him.

There are all sorts of dimensions to this that aren't being considered, IMO.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Er, strong men have families too.

And nobody's gonna know you're a coward if you're jumping them with baseball bats in a dark alley!

Funny, I can sorta remember a similar conversation (or at least one with similar themes) a while back. My stance then is the same one I have now...

I don't think what we have now is that much different from what you advocate, except replace "physical fighting" with getting sued or fired or socially ostracized or whatever. It's just that (outside of schoolyards and inner city ghettos, anyway) the winner isn't the physically strongest person, it's the richest/gutsiest/most socially connected person. Physical strength/skills are rather arbitrary factors to select for anyway, I don't see why it shouldn't be any of those other factors.

... this isn't coherent. Argh.

edited 23rd May '11 10:26:52 PM by melloncollie

Screw the field of honor. Beyond stupid. Back alley is where its at.

Please.

Mayhap the good old days of honour and consequences weren't as good as you make them out to be, and the present generation of snivelling wimps isn't as dishonorable as you think.

The only reason the Internet seems like a breeding ground for backhanded cowardice is because it's new. Everyone's testing the boundaries and figuring out what goes where and how this leads to that. In a vague amount of time, there is no reason for the Internet to lack the common courtesy that real life interaction brings to mind.

@Leradny: Fair point, but my personal experiences (in both the Internet and Real Life) say otherwise.

It is not just Net-based interaction that cause me to feel such, it's everywhere. People feel comfortable insulting and demeaning each other in ways that would not have flown a generation ago. Back then, someone could give you five knuckles to the face if you got out of line.

Now, even schoolyard tussles are verboten. People are offing themselves over Facebook bullying...and why? It isn't the bullying...it's the frustration that comes from having nothing that you personally can do about it.

Example; there is someone I know. We will call him Bob. Now, Bob doesn't care for me and my lifestyle. So, he spreads unpleasant rumors about both myself and my lady. People who don't know me believe these statements (after all, they've nothing else to go on) and shun us.

Now, a generation ago I would have taken my fate into my own hands; I'd have tracked him down and called him out. We'd "step outside", roll up our sleeves and tempt our fates. I might have won and and I might have not *

but the point is that something would have been decided. My fate would be mine to affect.

Now? I just have to sit and take it. I have to watch it happen, and even confronting him directly with words alone risks police involvement ("I feel threatened" is sufficient to get them involved now, just so everyone knows).

The frustration I feel is worse than a few bruises. At least the bruises would have been honorably earned.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

Toughen up. You talk about the field of honor as if it was some good versus evil setup where you would get justice. They taunt you, you taunt back if its bugging you so much.

Please.

@Drunkscriblerian: You know how to get back at "Bob", in a completely legal way mind you, but you just don't want to do it. We've talked about this.

You can totally hit him where it hurts, it's just in a metaphorical sense rather than a physical one.

edited 23rd May '11 10:43:44 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I think it's just as foolish to punch another person because of an actual slight. Not that there's even a clear difference between actual and imagined slights. In practice, I don't trust people to tell the difference. Or the wrong country. I hear there are places in the Middle East where honor-related violence is in fashion. I think people still do that sort of thing. Ah, moral certainty. If that's the "something" that we've lost, then I say we still haven't lost enough.

Do the back alley way. Taunt him so hard he attacks first. Then use sufficient force to defend yourself.

Please.