British Politics Thread

I think Labour would say that's "too risky" and that "they don't make promises".

Some News:

Round-Up:

• Conservative conference, Osborne speech, Turner Prize and Hong Kong protests

To Brum:

• George Osborne proposes two year benefits freeze
• David Cameron promises seven-day GP access by 2020
• Theresa May: British values will prevail over extremists
• Boris Johnson urges 'conservative family' to unite in 2015 fight
• Conservatives pledge union law reforms

Other Political News:

• Newmark resignation: Investigation of 'urgent concern'
  • Brooks Newmark Sunday Mirror story prompts MP's complaint
• Richard Barnes, former Tory deputy London mayor, backs UKIP
• Peter Nunn jailed for Twitter abuse of MP Stella Creasy

Wales: can the slumbering dragon awake?

Unlikely.

Looking at the whole Tory conference one wonders how much of it is designed to appeal to voters. A lot of it seems to be the usual self-congratulatory, Labour-bashing attitude. Granted they have played to the positives with regards the economy, encouraging business etc. but falling into a lot of the same old assumptions as well- Labour somehow being to blame for the financial crisis (which was international and didn't even start here) and the deficit (which was mostly due to the financial crisis and only slightly due to any reckless spending on the part of Labour, which I will allow for). That fixing the deficit somehow takes priority over the real concerns of those on low incomes, yet somehow spending money on questionable projects like HS 2 is necessary to drive progress. Really?

On the MP naughty pic sting thing, the one thing that worries me (and I've yet to see answered) is where the pics the reporter sent came from. The (male) reporter sent intimate pics of a women to the MP, I've heard it said that the pics were of a model, but did they have her consent to use the pics in that way?

Edit: Just actually read the link, it seems they didn't have her permission (though the Mirror thought the freelancer did), I do hope they find something criminal to hit the freelancer with, you can't just randomly use naked pictures of a person to further your own ends.

edited 30th Sep '14 12:00:19 PM by SilasW

Therein lies IPSO's first test.

No, they didn't. Actually, they used photos from two people, both of whom complained.

Also, it was a fishing exercise which they tried with other MPs which I find irritating because, I might not be able to put this clearly: this was a chance opportunity for the papers, there's no reason to suspect that it had the activation energy to leap out and affect the public, it could entirely be a personal problem of temporary contexts.

edited 30th Sep '14 12:07:39 PM by SomeSortOfTroper

Ugh, this is what I hate about...was going to say "British" and or "tabloid" but such qualifiers are inappropriate - journalism.

Leveson has clearly taught them nothing about respecting the boundaries of privacy and personal space.

This is about as bad a start to the Tory conference as Cameron could fear.

I've read the reporter went around several newspapers, who rejected the story — the Mirror took the story on...

Why is it journalists and police can do the same thing and get completely different reactions (compare this to Plebgate)?

Because Journalists control what facts we see. It's easy for them to paint our perceptions of the world, so that journalists = good and police = evil.

Yet again, The Thick Of It comes true in real life with the Tories' latest fail.

I've not really followed this thread since it went weird...

(Page 620).

So Labour are "Centre Right". So Tories then.

edited 30th Sep '14 2:58:30 PM by Last_Hussar

My concern about the Mirror story is not so much the method but the justification. The Mirror are claiming that it was in the public interest that this story was released. And they have a pretty good case: the Minister in question was part of an effort to recruit more women into the Conservative party to become activists. It is in the public interest to ask if there were more sinister motivations behind his involvement in the scheme. If he genuinely wants to increase female representation, fine. If however it is to engineer inappropriate relationships with women, then problem.

THAT having been said however, from what I can gleam from this story it appears that the reporter in question tried several MPs before catching Newmark with his trousers down. To me this is worrying: it appears they planned the story first and then sought justification afterwards. I would call this putting the cart before the horse. I think the Mirror have got it wrong here and I will continue to believe that unless I see a piece of evidence that shows that Newmark had a dodgy reputation with women BEFORE the Mirror tried its sting and that the Mirror had this evidence before commissioning the reporter.

Compare and contrast with this hypothetical: if the Mirror had caught Lord Rennard, then I'd be framing that copy on the wall like a hunting trophy. Everyone knew that Rennard had a bad reputation: he was most certainly on the unofficial list of male politicians that female MPs and activists are told to not share a lift with. If it turns out that Newmark is also on this list then well done to the Mirror: they have their justification. Otherwise, it does become personal and messy and the whole thing stinks of being a case of unfair entrapment.

<delurks>

Random question: I realize Tory is an alternative name for the Conservatives. But do the other major parties have widespread alternative names?

Their left wing equivalent is "Whigs", but it's fallen out of use. They were both the original political parties/movements (the short version is; Whigs opposed the monarch having absolute power, the Tories opposed them).

And that's why the case has been referred to the Regulator.

Liberal equivalent, really. The Whigs became the Liberal Party, which fell from grace and merged with the SDP to form the Lib Dems.

edited 30th Sep '14 3:47:50 PM by Greenmantle

The Scottish Nationalists are sometimes called the Nats, but not to the same extent as the Tories, and I've never seen it used as a term of self-reference.

Whigs is never used. It also refers to the defunct Liberal Party.

edited 30th Sep '14 3:49:26 PM by Achaemenid

Nats was used rather pejoratively during the referendum campaign, particularly in the sense of "cyber-nats", i.e. Yes supporting trolls and extremists online. It's sometimes used neutrally, but it doesn't have any specific positive connotations, and the former usage has perhaps made it a bit of a dirty word to use for a while.

Cyber-nats were a thing long before the indyref.

I'm aware, but the referendum certainly brought the term into more common mainstream use. Thanks as much to the trolls being more active as much as the media using the term, of course.

Danny Alexander to potentially lose his seat to the SNP in May?

That is...not what the Lib Dems need right now.

edited 30th Sep '14 4:24:59 PM by CaissasDeathAngel

About "Whig" as a name... yes, it was applied to the old Liberals. But, if you think they were left wing, you're missing what Liberalism was all about. (And, if you apply it only to the House of Commons, you're missing where a lot of the real politics took place: the Lords were a sight more important, once, you know.)

Yes, in comparison to the Tories, the Whigs were progressive in their aims, but that didn't automatically mean they were "left". Any more than "Conservative" at the time meant "right". <_< Left and Right are C20th concepts that didn't stand for much of anything in the C18th to C19th. Even "conservative" and "liberal" would have meant nothing remotely like you'd think in any form of politics from the C14th to C17th, even. (But, you can, in fact, find a proto-Labour movement back then... for all it wasn't called that.)

It's the Labour movement that introduced "left" into politics from the late C19th onwards. -_- And, that movement isn't always "progressive", since you can be left-leaning and fascist, for crying out loud).

Change over time: whatever word you're applying will can and will mean something different for the time its being applied to.

Be very, very careful when using modern descriptions or interpretations of meaning on the parties or political structures of the past. And, that goes for decade by decade analysis, too.

edited 30th Sep '14 6:41:42 PM by Euodiachloris

It's possible that Nick Clegg will lose his Sheffield seat, too. The Lib Dems really are finished.

Then how are the Lib Dems prospects in the South West?

Conservative Donor Arron Banks defects to UKIP

edited 1st Oct '14 1:34:08 AM by Greenmantle

No, you mean gatekeepers. Everybody knows Journalists are intellectual whores.

David Cameron pledges tax cuts 'for 30m people'