Rename: Osananajimi

In another thread (located here but you don't really need to bother reading it since it's very long), a discussion came up about the name of a trope in the ykttw phase called Osananajimi for the moment. Discussion continued with the main point of the thread and later returned to this subject after many posters had believed the issue of the thread resolved. A new crowner came up for Osananajimi, but as shown by the results near the end after the crowner had been 'called' it was not actually stable and one interpretation of the votes is that the trope currently under the name Osananajimi actually should have been called something else due to the vote ratio being higher as opposed to sheer number of up votes.

This thread is in place to help get around that before the freshly launched trope becomes too ingrained and difficult to change as in the case of other foreign language tropes. As such, we will discuss the validity of the current name and whether or not a different title may be put in place instead. The trope itself is a valid enough subtrope and that issue is already settled

tl;dr summary: The crowner was sneaky, and then it was locked at a terrible moment. Discussion moved to new thread so people will actually see the discussion this time. Is there any reason this needs to be named this instead of something like Harem Childhood Friend?

It looks pretty clear that the current name won. Add the second name as a redirect and move on.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

It didn't win. It was locked while it was still moving. The current trend of votes was actually moving it into a disfavored position. In fact, it had a lower ratio of plus to minus votes than the second option.

edited 23rd Apr '11 11:32:49 PM by Arha

A multi-option crowner like that doesn't work like a rename crowner where the ratio is everything, I know, I've tried that argument myself on other topics. It didn't work. Whether the crowner was still 'live' can be a bit of poser. Doing a bit of research into the old topic("You don't have to read this" enters my brain as, "You need to read this. Now.") it seems a lot of those votes came after the launch. It was stable before the action, then some people objected after the fact. That's nothing new here.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

The doesn't matter? Sounds strange to me. I can see why it would be overlooked if the crowner was stable, but from what the posts on the last page or two indicate is that it wasn't. Once the thread was bumped up and before it was locked a large number of new votes came in that brought it to the current almost even level it's at now of +3 to +2.

This may just sound like whining about a result I don't like, but locking a crowner that is still moving and then saying it's good enough doesn't seem like what we normally do. Especially when the 'winning' option is frankly stupid.

The ratio is not important in that type of crowner, otherwise you'd have option A) at 150 to 100 losing to option B) at 4 to 1. Option A) had a ratio of 1.5:1 and option B) had a ratio of 3.0:1, double that, but are you saying 3 people should have more voice than 50?

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Okay, fair enough. Doesn't really address the whole 'crowner was still moving' when locked thing, but if the idea of a quick painless rename hasn't gathered some support by tomorrow I guess I'll just drop it and get over it.

For the record, I shall repeat the problems with it:

For one thing, Harem Childhood Friend, like all other suggested alternatives, sounds totally misleading:

• For example Harry Potter and Ginny are listed as a Childhood Friend Romance, and Harry is listed on Unwanted Harem for having a harem at one point, but Ginny still isn't really a "Harem Childhood Friend" because the trope has more requirements than that.

• Kei from Ef A Fairy Tale Of The Two technically only participates in a Love Triangle, not a Harem, but she is still a "Harem Childhood Friend". In fact, the trope is as commonly described as an Eroge trope as a Harem trope, and very few Eroge have Harems.

In contrast, Osananajimi is the pre-existing fanspeak term describing this trope, that is, according to Trope Renaming Guidelines, one of our main reasons to keep a name, and the only "problem" with it is that it's a term of foreign origin, that wasn't ever a trope renaming reason on it's own.

edited 24th Apr '11 12:14:33 AM by EternalSeptember

Well, the reasons for getting rid of it also include being too hard to spell, having nothing in common with the tropes it's part of a group with and being impenetrable to people outside that fandom. While that group is smaller than it might be if this were a less specific trope, there are still many people who watch anime and just refer to such characters as childhood friends. Despite consuming a great deal of anime and visual novels, this is not the word I would use to describe such characters.

And really, osananajimi means no more than 'childhood friend.' By the way we have defined this trope, I wouldn't be surprised at all if I learned that most of the way even those fans use the word is broader than the way we do at the moment.

Read the beginning and skipped to the end of the last thread. Throw some redirects on it if you want, but if it sat for 2 weeks and Osananajimi stayed in the lead, it was stable, and should probably have been locked before ES bumped the thread. I wouldn't mind having an English title for it, since it's a bit hard to spell, even compared to some of our other Japanese-named tropes, but if that's what it's called, that's what it's called.

They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?

I agree, that it would be ideal if we could just reference to the trope as "childhood friends", but that is already used for many other tropes, so the easiest way to clearly differentiate it from them, is to use the more specific term for it.

In japanese, it doesn't. In the same way as Shōnen doesn't mean anything more than "boy", Hentai doesn't mean anything more than "pervert", and Otaku doesn't mean anything more than "fanatical about something", yet in an english context, they are used as "manga aimed at boys", "drawn japanese porn", and "anime fan", respectively.

edited 24th Apr '11 12:59:12 AM by EternalSeptember

Eh, very well. This was intended more to raise the point to people who may have been interested but didn't see what was going on before. However, consensus seems to be complete indifference at best, so I won't press the issue.

Still a dumb name though. And I still think you're making flimsy excuses to defend a bad title ES.

I think trope titles should clearly show their meanings. To many English speakers this nay as well be gibberish.

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also

"Dumb" or "bad" name is your opinion, Arha. And seemly based only in the fact it is not English. Not all agree with such definition.

Osananajimi is no inherently worse then Jump the Shark. At aast it sorta indicate the trope, even if in another language. (note I am not saying JTS is a bad title)

And many other English speakers go "I have learned a new word and increased both my vocabulary and cultural awareness, cool".

— In the words of so many posters who forced renames through and then crowed over those who liked the original name.

You lost, suck it up and move on.

edited 24th Apr '11 6:08:09 AM by CrypticMirror