Could use a better title: Flat Yes

Yes, I know, I should have thought of that before launching it, but potholing to it from works pages makes me realize it has more potential to be misleading than I previously thought. It's snowcloned from Flat "What", but it's actually about saying yes when a no would be considered more appropriate by whoever is asking the question. Flat "Yes" does not imply a yes that is said flatly, nor does a yes that is said flatly imply a Flat "Yes". As such, the word "flat" is irrelevant.

Just for context, here's the YKTTW discussion. Note that the popularity of the title Flat "Yes" was double-subverted over time; I initially called it Flat "Yes" to snowclone Flat "What", and people pointed out some flaws with that approach, suggesting things like Blunt "Yes" instead, so I went with that for a while. Then after people pointed out some problems with Blunt "Yes", I went back to Flat "Yes", remembering that it was originally that without remembering why that was a worse title to begin with. By the time it got to 72 replies I figured it was time to launch it anyway, but in hindsight I should have waited for a better title.

I'd like to think it's not too late to come up with alternatives, though. Should we stick with Flat "Yes", switch to Blunt "Yes", or come up with something else? (Note that whatever we come up with, I'd still like to keep Flat "Yes" as a redirect for now, if only because I already linked to it on a variety of other pages.)

edited 1st Apr '11 12:17:13 PM by neoYTPism

Also, I just created a 'playing with' section for this trope; so far this is the first trope of mine for which I've done this. I'd like to find out if I'm doing this right. (And also, whether or not we have a trope for the "not going far enough" double-subversion.)

+ 1 for Blunt "Yes".

edited 1st Apr '11 10:34:21 PM by Tyoria

I like Blunt better than Flat.

I prefer Honestly Yes (stylized as Honestly, Yes or Honestly? Yes!) - avoids the problems with both the suggested titles in my view.

edited 2nd Apr '11 12:23:07 AM by MorganWick

Honestly Yes sounds good.

edited 2nd Apr '11 12:52:25 AM by Thebes

Honestly Yes is good too.

Hmm, Honestly Yes is good but there is danger of being mixed with Sincerity Mode. I think Blunt "Yes" is better to for now, unless someone has better idea.

It even is pretty much what description says, since honesty is not the requirement, but the bluntness.

edited 2nd Apr '11 4:15:34 AM by Mandemo

If we're to take the Brutal Honesty centric name, Honest Yes seems a bit better than Honestly Yes. Still not sure whether I'd prefer to go with that or Blunt "Yes" though...

I didn't think Brutal Honesty was as important as the comment about Insult Backfire, that it shows a difference in view, so I think Honestly Yes is better. It also mimics the stock phrase, so it should be less confusing.

We should add a mention of Rhetorical Question Blunder too, because that's the most common variation of this trope, and this trope is the most common variation of that trope.

edited 2nd Apr '11 11:57:22 AM by Thebes

Or maybe Actually Yes.

"We should add a mention of Rhetorical Question Blunder too" - Thebes

Well, I already potholed to it.

If "Honest" is going in there, "Honest Yes" sounds less clunky than "Honestly Yes", and seems a lot more accurate to the spirit of the trope than "Blunt Yes".

edited 5th Apr '11 7:12:27 PM by BrothaSoul

Honesty is not required, but it's very common. It just needs to be blunt.

I have a question about this trope: would sarcasm count? Either way, I think that needs to be mentioned.

Depends on what kind of sarcasm you're talking about.

As for the "honesty" part, what Mandemo said.

What the trope is even about is hard to narrow down, and I'm not sure if the description does the job. For the sake of comparison I'm going to show both Insult Backfire and Flat "Yes" together:

->The Fundamentalist: You've got to be the most blasphemous person I know!

->Hollywood Atheist: Why thank you.

->The Fundamentalist: What? Do you think blasphemy is a GOOD thing?

->Hollywood Atheist: Yes. Yes I do.

EDIT: Why isn't the quotation indentation working?

edited 6th Apr '11 8:33:18 PM by neoYTPism

How about, say, Counter-Yes or Yes Rejoinder?

Come to think of it, if the similarities to Insult Backfire worry you, Yes Backfire.

edited 7th Apr '11 3:50:54 AM by Tyoria

It's not that they worry me. It's just that I use them as a way to describe the trope. I'm not sure how to pin down exactly how to describe it, and like I said, I'm not sure in hindsight if the description does a good enough job.

I'm just looking for a title that best captures the theme of the trope. Blunt "Yes" is the best we have so far, but I'd like to keep looking.

EDIT: On a sidenote, would it be worthwhile making this a Self-Demonstrating Article?

edited 8th Apr '11 11:33:15 AM by neoYTPism

How would you make this self-demonstrating? I've been trying to imagine it, but I can't.

A description that goes, "are they really going to answer this kind of question with a yes? Yes. Yes they are."

EDIT: And that's just one way.

edited 8th Apr '11 5:07:56 PM by neoYTPism

Neo: Did you spot troacctid's "Actually Yes" suggestion? That seems most apt so far to me.

Actually, yes. Yes I did. I just think Blunt "Yes" would be a little better for showing the theme of the trope. I'm not sure if "actually yes" would do that. In any case, for the time being, I think both phrases should be redirects. Any objections?

EDIT: Speaking of not quite the theme of the trope, a borderline-example recently came to mind.

->Superintendant Chalmers: Aurora Borealis!?!? At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your kitchen!?!? ->Principal Skinner: ... yes.

edited 8th Apr '11 7:06:13 PM by neoYTPism

On a sidenote, an example from The Simpsons closer to the theme of the trope recently came to mind anyway so I added that instead. (I suppose that would not rule out adding the Aurora Borealis one, but it does seem to be more of a grey area as far as the theme of bluntness goes.)

EDIT: Another thing, I am wondering what people would suggest as a page quotation. The current one is clearly an example, but I am thinking the Nelson one would be closer to the average use of the trope. (The Joker's use of it is technically about attitudes towards an issue but does not seem as reflective of that theme.) Also, the Star Wars one might be closer as well, and it has the benefit of recognizability.

edited 13th Apr '11 3:04:33 PM by neoYTPism

Could we just have it switched to Blunt "Yes" for now, while keeping Flat "Yes" as a redirect because of the links I made to that title?

The main theme of the trope is bluntness, it was that ever since I proposed it in YKTTW. The only reason I was hesitant to go with that was because it was a particular style of bluntness, but just calling it Blunt "Yes" will suffice, and won't be anywhere near as misleading as Flat "Yes".

Crowner time? If someone knows how to make one we could do voting and then take action.