Playing the good guy

This is why I don't like the good/evil system because it's been hard coded into our brains that Good Feels Good, because it's good! Everyone knows good is good. I often prefer a different morality axis which is why I like the Shin Megami Tensei games, they give you several different options, usually on the scale of Law VS Chaos, but some of the games (especially the better ones) let you pick a fourth, fifth, or even sixth option. This way it gets down not to "Should I be a nice person or not?" and instead gets down to "Which do I really think is better?".

Some of the games still fall short since it really likes to favor the Neutral ending over all others, but it's better than most other games about it.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Yeah, that probably sums it up best: Most evil paths are indeed all about Evil Is Petty.

If there were Karma Meter like they said Paragon/Renegade would work in Mass Effect, that is Renegade as being utterly ruthless and doing everything to reach the goal; while Paragon is taking that little extra risk for the sake of being good - then that would be a good game. But as it turned out, the Paragon options are not only the nice ones - they are pretty much always also the better ones. Never do they fail, never is there really a risk, never is there ever a need to be ruthless. That system is out of whack.

But as said, if there were such a system as the ME system originally was presented as, then it would be entirely valid and reasonable to play "evil".

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Thats funny, cos I found the Renegade options work best.

Really though, it works both ways. If the interrupt is coloured, you know it'll work.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

All big decisions of ME1 work for the better in 2 if the paragon decision was taken. Every little one, no matter if it is the Rachni saved or the Council saved or whatever.

Of course renegade interrupts works. If it is coloured, it works, period, no matter if red or blue, no matter if interrupt or dialogue option. But the decisions with consequences? It's always paragon that's better. And in the smaller stuff, renegade works, but so does paragon - but Renegade follows, as has been said, Evil Is Petty.

There should have been paragon decisions that do good but hurt you, at least in the long run, and there should be renegade options that do bad, but really do help you where paragon couldn't. And I say that as one of the standard good guys - at least that way taking the paragon decision would really have been something 'good'. And it would justify being renegade besides, well, pettiness.

edited 31st Mar '11 12:07:32 PM by Octo

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

Renegade is a step in the right direction; especially with the second games interrupts. However regarding dialogue things start to fall apart for me; shaking down people for small amounts of money and intentionally breaking your teammates isn't pragmatic at all.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Omega Kross, what is your definition of an "Evil" character?

Because to me, Renegade doesn't seem to be evil most of the time, just solving your problems through more...violent means, even if it is for the greater good most of the time.

edited 31st Mar '11 1:18:20 PM by tnewhandl

Renegade is racist, violent, and petty. It's supposed "pragmatism" never turns out to actually be more helpful than the Paragon options. You leave the world a worse place than it could've been, and all because you're an impatient jackass.

Since I mostly play Paragon, I didn't get that from most of the dialouge options.

Renegade always sides with letting aliens suffer if it benefits humanity in the slightest. The big Renegade choice at the end of the game is to let the Council die for no particular reason (since you end up doing the same thing in the end anyway). I suppose if you're actually xenophobic this might seem like an okay thing to do, but I find that completely impossible to justify.

edit: Oops, I said paragon instead of renegade and it made no sense.

edited 31st Mar '11 1:58:35 PM by Clarste

The weird part is that I have no problem playing mustache-twirlingly evil if I start with an evil character; but starting as the hero and turning evil is something else.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

In any case it doesn't fit the descriptions given for Paragon and Renegade in the slightest. There is never any situation where you need to make a ruthless decision, the paragon path always works, too, and with better results.

Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken. Unrelated ME1 Fanfic

The characters I play are always good. Regardless of their actions, they are good. Because if they weren't, they'd be obligated to kill themselves.

Whether another person thinks they are good or evil really doesn't matter to me...

I roleplay, so I don't... actually fall anywhere on the spectrum.

Some of my characters are Jesus, some are racist, some are just Dicks, and some are just doing what they think is right.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Renegade is extremely stupid. "I'm going to be an irritating fuckwit and not build up morale and randomly harass people". The only time I go Renegade is when it actually works - you know, against petty robbers and that idiot on the prison hulk.

Yeah, sure, go ahead and call Paragon a pussy, but I don't like being a complete moron to everyone I come across.

Was Jack Mackerel. | i rite gud

Paragon isn't a pussy, a paragon just recognizes the fact that people like other people who aren't dicks about stuff. Thus, makes a much better leader than the renegade.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Regarding Mass Effect, I think Bioware is pulling some clever tricks with regard to the overall path of the games. Basically, they are arranging things so you get what you ask for. If you are mostly a Paragon, always trying to do the right thing and save everyone, you get a story where you get to do the right thing and save everyone. If you are mostly a Renegade, making ruthless choices out of 'necessity', than you get a story where ruthless choices become necessary. And if you dither on how to deal with things, holding to no firm convictions, than you may be screwed.

My theory is that this will manifest in ME 3 with three different ways to win the game: 1. If you made various Paragon choices that saved species and made friends, you will get to beat the Reapers via Gondor Calls for Aid, and lead the collected forces of the galaxy in a grand battle of heroic defiance. 2. If you saved the Collector Base for Cerberus, you can instead outfit ruthless human supremacist forces, and save the galaxy by conquering it, largely. 3. If you did neither, you can still save the day. . . by using a sun exploding weapon to wipe out the Reapers in a horrible surprise attack. And also explode Earth in the process.

Home of CBR Rumbles-in-Exile: rumbles.fr.yuku.com

What happens if you are a Paragon that kept the base?

Umbran Climax◊

Defeat Reapers with your allies and then deal with Cerberus (either because they are indoctrinated or because they are too advanced and move against the galaxy).

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

Responding to the question of 'what do I consider an evil character' Renegade shepard isnt evil, just an asshole. But an asshole who gets results. I think the main reason I prefer evil characters is because I cant stand playing characters who are all, "lets talk about this", or, "It doesnt have to end this way", trying to get along with everybody, even when they are dicks. I'd rather not play as a hippie thanks.

Also, with regards to everything turning out better if you play Paragon? Aside from a few story differences here and there, I havent seen any benefit one way or another. Which is a shame. I agree there should be some meaningful consequences for choosing Paragon or Renegade, but its all story related so far.

Also, Renegade Shep inspires his comrades by not taking any shit. He may be an asshole, but he'll do whatever it takes to get the job done and let nobody stand in his way.

With regards to how I choose to play ME 2, I actually dont go full on renegade. Heavily skewed towards renegade maybe, but I'm normally pretty understanding with the squad.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

You can't play a good character that -isn't- a Hippie Tree-Hugger-Kumbaya-Addict?

Because I've done it plenty of times.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Yeah. I get so far in and feel so wussed out by the crap coming out of my characters mouth that I have to offset it by murdering random NPC's.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

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Even if you -aren't- being the hippie? I mean, you can play a good guy a lot of ways, and avoid those lines entirely.

I just don't see how being a dick and killing random people constitutes "fun" or is any better than being a tree-hugger, both are pretty annoying to listen to.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

I can play good sometimes, depending how good the dialouge tree system is, but the best I can do is Good Is Not Nice. I cant bring myself to RP a character who isnt as massively cynical as I am. It just goes against my entire worldview, even if said world is fictional.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

There's a difference between cynical and "Muahahahah! You want money, beggar? HOW ABOUT I KILL YOUR FAMILY AND RAPE YOUR DOG INSTEAD."

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Hey, I dont always play dog-raping evil. Usually I do that on my second or third playtrough.

Though, if that option came up in a dialouge tree, I couldnt resist choosing it. It'd be too funny to pass up.

edited 31st Mar '11 6:10:39 PM by OmegaKross

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...