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TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#6676: Oct 16th 2016 at 9:40:41 AM

Wars and Rumours of War: Japanese Plans to Invade the Philippines, 1593-1637 by Dr. Stephen Turnbull

edited 16th Oct '16 9:41:10 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
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#6677: Oct 17th 2016 at 10:36:28 PM

How did the introduction of guns change Native America? The author points out that the various Indian tribes picked up the musket very quickly; the shock effect wore off fast, and they were not short of suppliers (since there were a lot of marketplaces). This lines up with my book on the Comanches, another tribe that rapidly adopted the horse and the musket and used them to great effect against other tribes and even the Europeans. In the end, it's a huge simplification to cite gunpowder as a reason the Europeans were able to conquer the Americas; it's a fair bit more nuanced than that, and the political dynamics are important.

For indigenous people all across North America, European colonisation meant more than withering in the face of epidemic diseases and European technological superiority. It also meant the opportunity for Indians to adopt firearms, to transform their ways of war, to change intertribal relations, to engage in colonial diplomacy, and to try new economies. They sought to empower themselves, not in accordance with some general pan-Indian identity, but as particular communities, tribes and confederacies. They almost always saw their own rise as predicated on the exploitation of other indigenous people.

Thus, the spread of guns meant the spread of awful gun violence. The availability of guns gave rise to societies of predatory Indian gunmen who terrorised entire regions. Attempting to counter the threat, weaker indigenous societies allied with each other and with colonial powers. Worse still, while Native people turned their guns on each other, colonial societies grew stronger and stronger. Eventually, they became the greatest danger to Indian life. Ninigret had to confront this hard lesson at the end of his life amid King Philip’s War. Over the course of the 18th and 19th centuries, many other Native societies would face similar dilemmas.

edited 17th Oct '16 10:36:37 PM by SabresEdge

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#6678: Oct 18th 2016 at 3:03:16 PM

That book on the Comanche wouldn't happen to be Empire of the Summer Moon would it?

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#6679: Oct 18th 2016 at 3:50:51 PM

No, The Comanche Empire by Pekka Hamalainen. I couldn't think of its name at the moment.

The most interesting point of the history was this: Comancheria managed to thrive as an informal empire from the 1700s through the early 1860s by rapidly adopting technological advances (acquired through trade) and by exploiting what modern political scientists would call "ungoverned space" in what is now the Southwest, raiding Mexico and other Indian tribes, allying or extorting as opportunity allowed, and acquiring a ton of wealth through trade with the burgeoning US. That turned out to be one reason the US was able to defeat Mexico so quickly in the war (and why US settlers faced so little organized resistance from Mexican authorities, despite technically encroaching on Mexican land); the Comanches had, through decades of nonstop extortion and raiding, managed to sap Spanish and then Mexican authority to the point of near nonexistence north of the Rio Grande.

edited 18th Oct '16 3:51:01 PM by SabresEdge

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#6680: Oct 18th 2016 at 5:44:27 PM

Today's topic in Chinese History was about the chaos after the implosion of the Han Dynasty and some reason, my (Chinese) professor spent like five minutes talking about the Three Kingdoms era and twenty on the Northern Wei Dynasty.

edited 18th Oct '16 5:44:52 PM by SantosLHalper

Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
#6681: Oct 18th 2016 at 5:45:25 PM

I have a particular fondness for the Ming Dynasty. :) ^_^;;

I like to keep my audience riveted.
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#6682: Oct 18th 2016 at 6:13:35 PM

We're going to get to that. Sometime in February, I reckon.

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#6683: Oct 25th 2016 at 9:31:20 AM

Today in history: Agincourt.

I'll let everyone's good friend Billy the Bard take over, historical artistic license and all.

KING. What's he that wishes so?
My cousin, Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;
If we are mark'd to die, we are enow
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
But if it be a sin to covet honour,
I am the most offending soul alive.

No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour
As one man more methinks would share from me
For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say "To-morrow is Saint Crispian."
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
And say "These wounds I had on Crispin's day."
Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember, with advantages,
What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
Familiar in his mouth as household words—
Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester—
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered—
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

edited 25th Oct '16 9:32:32 AM by SabresEdge

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#6684: Oct 25th 2016 at 7:06:54 PM

I have found one my new favorite "Hitler Reacts" style videos.

Hitler watches History channels "Ancient Aliens" shows.

Who watches the watchmen?
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#6685: Oct 27th 2016 at 5:32:49 PM

Today in Early Modern English History lecture I learned all about how this dispute between a guy who cut off another guy's laundry line ended with over thirty guys in a giant brawl fighting each other with swords and halberdsnote  that had to be brought before the highest court in England. [lol]

edited 27th Oct '16 5:33:34 PM by SantosLHalper

RatherRandomRachel "Just as planned." from Somewhere underground. Since: Sep, 2013
"Just as planned."
#6686: Oct 29th 2016 at 11:27:48 PM

Which case was that? I feel I should recognise it but I don't.

edited 30th Oct '16 12:51:06 AM by RatherRandomRachel

"Did you expect somebody else?"
Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
#6687: Nov 7th 2016 at 5:13:27 PM

For some reason, listening to the national anthem of Spain makes me think of the Spanish knights. ^_^;;

I like to keep my audience riveted.
pepimanoli Cuteness overload. from the wondrous land of Profundia Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Cuteness overload.
#6688: Nov 8th 2016 at 7:56:23 AM

[up] That version in the video has the old lyrics that were made for Primo de Rivera. The official one has no lyrics at all.

Anyway, as a proud Spaniard have to sing now the "true" lyrics that come to the mind of any Spaniard when hearing the anthem.

Franco, Franco

que tiene el culo blanco

porque su mujer

se lo lava con Ariel.

a

La reina Sofia

se lo lava con lejia

y por eso el rey

se siente asi de bien.

It's a joke version about Franco's butt being washed by important people (his wife, the royal family, etc). tongue The last line has a lot of variants, but the first stanza is always the same.

edited 8th Nov '16 7:56:48 AM by pepimanoli

Everyone call me elf monster
RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 from Australia Since: Feb, 2015
#6689: Nov 9th 2016 at 11:22:46 PM

Alright, as far as we know Henry VIII has four children that survived the cradle; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I and the illegitimate Henry Fitzroy. None of which had children of their own. However his mistress Mary Boleyn had Catherine and Henry Carey, and there are a few others who were suspected to be his illegitimate children. Which of his rumored bastards has the most chance of being his, and if so what's the chance?

That way if I turn out to be descended from one my interest in Henry VIII will be even more Hilarious in Hindsight than it already is, considering Thomas More was one of my ancestors as mentioned already

edited 9th Nov '16 11:23:01 PM by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93

Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
SantosLHalper Since: Aug, 2009
#6691: Nov 11th 2016 at 5:57:59 PM

I decided that if I were a Chinese warlord, I would name my state the Zhou Dynasty just like the half-dozen other warlord states with that name.

edited 11th Nov '16 5:58:23 PM by SantosLHalper

Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#6693: Nov 11th 2016 at 6:20:36 PM

To fuck with future historians of course.

Who watches the watchmen?
Parable Since: Aug, 2009
#6694: Nov 12th 2016 at 8:10:04 AM

Always a good reason to do something. [lol]

Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
#6695: Nov 12th 2016 at 8:49:37 AM

Half this thread and half Things you didn't know until very recently. Martha's Vineyard was named after either the mother-in-law or the daughter of the English explorer Bartholomew Gosnold. I thought it was named after Martha Washington. ^_^;;

I like to keep my audience riveted.
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#6696: Nov 13th 2016 at 1:19:39 AM

From The Daily Beast: The Shrink as Secret Agent: Jung, Hitler, and the OSS

At the height of World War II, the U.S. intelligence service recruited world-famous Swiss psychiatrist C. G. Jung as ‘Agent 488’ to work against the Nazis.

PARIS — By the middle of 1942, a handful of senior officers in the German army and intelligence apparatus worried that their Führer, Adolf Hitler, had gone completely insane.

That may sound, today, like an understatement. But as happens when any populist demagogue takes power, many people embraced him at first, many others were willing to makes excuses for him, and still others convinced themselves that they could live with him at least. Indeed, over the previous decade the vast majority of Germans were persuaded that Hitler understood them, and they understood him—such was the chemistry between the man and his constituents—even if much of the rest of the world found him appalling.

“He is the loudspeaker which magnifies the inaudible whispers of the German soul,” world-renowned Swiss pyschotherapist Carl Jung told an American reporter in 1938.

But at this moment in 1942, Hitler was drinking heavily and had become increasingly erratic. Three million German soldiers fighting through a bitter winter had failed to take Moscow and his grand plans for conquest of the Soviet Union were turning to disaster. The United States had entered the war, and was beginning to bring its enormous resources to bear. A growing group of officers around Hitler wanted to remove him from power before he brought upon the Fatherland complete destruction.

But who could diagnose Hitler’s illness?

They thought of Jung, and not for entirely laudable reasons.

For years, Jung’s famous schism with his erstwhile mentor, Sigmund Freud, had been portrayed by the Nazis as a great divide between the Jewish Freud, decadently obsessed with the role of sex in the psyche, and the Aryan Jung, who drew on more mystical, symbolic, cultural elements for his analysis. And while Jung did not see himself as anti-Semitic and often told skeptical American audiences emphatically that he was not, he nonetheless allowed many Germans to believe that he was—even as he helped Jewish colleagues to escape the Holocaust. As Robert Boynton observed in The New York Times a few years ago, “He played all sides.”

With Hitler’s sanity a growing question, and believing Jung was someone Hitler would trust, one of the Führer’s physicians telephoned Jung in Switzerland and asked him to come to Hitler’s retreat in Berchtesgarden. The idea was to observe him discreetly and provide a neutral-sounding analysis of his condition that could then be used to persuade other officers that the time had come to oust the leader of the Third Reich before he brought the German heartland to utter ruin.

Jung declined, citing his age, 67, and the difficulty of crossing borders. But he may also have thought Germany was getting, in Hitler, exactly what it deserved.

Had the doctor and the conspiring military officers studied Jung’s work a little more closely in its original form, not the bowdlerized versions available in the Reich, they might have discovered that the demise of Hitler and the destruction of Germany as a unified nation was proceeding almost precisely as Jung predicted it should.


In early November 1942, just as Britain and the United States were launching their invasion of North Africa, a Wall Street lawyer and former diplomat named Allen Dulles made his way to Switzerland as the point man for the newly established American intelligence operation, the Office of Strategic Services. It later evolved into the vast Central Intelligence Agency with Dulles as its first and longest lasting civilian director, overseeing coups in Iran and Guatemala, and finally the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. But in 1942 the OSS was a seat of the pants operation, and Dulles, based in the Swiss capital Bern, was making things up as he went along.

Switzerland was a neutral island in the middle of Europe’s vast war, and its sleepy little capital was a nest of espionage and intrigue. (Scott Miller’s book, Agent 110: An American Spymaster and the German Resistance in WWII, to be published in March, gives a particularly vivid picture of the place, the people, and their times.)

One of Dulles’s earliest recruits there was an American woman, Mary Bancroft, who was living with her second husband, a French-Swiss businessman, in Zurich. She was, in the context of the times, quite notorious. Her marriage was open, and she made no secret of her many affairs. Indeed, she liked to regale people with the intimate details. She spoke bad German and worse Swiss-German, loudly, and was famously incapable of keeping secrets in any language. Not a good candidate for the clandestine service, one would think.

But Bancroft did some work as a journalist, trying to explain Switzerland to the United States and vice versa, which gave her a little cover. She was a very patriotic American. And at 39 she was full of energy. At a cocktail or dinner, she might be the only person you’d remember. “I used up all the oxygen,” she boasted years later.

Mary Bancroft was also an “analysand” of Dr. Jung and part of the group around him known as the Psychological Club. Some members—maybe most of them—loathed her. But Jung liked her and so did his “second wife,” Toni Wolff, who asked Bancroft to write a paper for the group.

Dulles, then pushing 50, not only liked Bancroft, he put her in direct touch with a senior German intelligence officer, Hans-Bernd Gisevius, who was in possession of extraordinary and deeply granular information about the inner workings of the Abwehr, German military intelligence, and some of the several plots to kill or remove Hitler.

Dulles also took Bancroft into his bed.

And Bancroft told Jung… everything. Then she reported back to Dulles what Jung told her, often briefing Dulles during “the ritual cigarette after lovemaking,” as she wrote afterward. Much of this before Dulles and Jung had ever met face to face. According to Jung biographer Deirdre Bair, “Dulles was aware of the gossip about Jung’s alleged sympathy for the Nazi cause as well as the allegations of his active collaboration. From his many different intelligence sources, he ordered a thorough appraisal which he believed proved such allegations unfounded and untrue.”

It’s doubtful that Dulles spent much time poring over Jung’s academic works on the collective unconscious, introversion and extroversion, symbolism, alchemy, or other topics, but he almost certainly took the time to read an interview with Jung published in 1938, just after British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain crumbled before Hitler, acceding to Germany’s claims on the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia.


The Pulitzer-Prize-winning American foreign correspondent H.R. Knickerbocker, who had spent years covering the Soviets and Germans, asked Jung to sit down for Cosmopolitan magazine (a rather different publication in those days) and share his thoughts on the three most infamous dictators of the time: Hitler, the Italian Benito Mussolini, and the Soviet Josef Stalin.

As Dulles himself wrote afterwards, Jung’s “judgment on these leaders and their likely reactions to passing events was of real help to me in gauging the political situation.”

Indeed the Cosmopolitan interview showed a level of foresight any observer then, or now, would appreciate, especially when he described the way a dictator can engage—and be engaged by—his people.

Jung saw Hitler as a mystic, a “medicine man,” channeling the unconscious as well as conscious desires of the German people, and saw similarities with some of his patients who heard voices telling them what to do:

“He is like a man who listens intently to a stream of suggestions in a whispered voice from a mysterious source and then acts upon them. In our case, even if occasionally our unconscious does reach us as through dreams, we have too much rationality, too much cerebrum to obey it… but Hitler listens and obeys… He is the loudspeaker which magnifies the inaudible whispers of the German soul until they can be heard by the German’s unconscious ear. He is the first man to tell every German what he has been thinking and feeling all along in his unconscious about German fate…”

And Jung understood well the dangers of nationalist populism, even in a sophisticated, cosmopolitan society:

“Don’t you know that if you choose one hundred of the most intelligent people in the world and get them all together, they are a stupid mob? Ten thousand of them together would have the collective intelligence of an alligator… In a crowd, the qualities which everybody possesses multiply, pile up, and become the dominant characteristics of the whole crowd. Not everybody has virtues, but everybody has the low animal instincts, the basic primitive caveman suggestibility, the suspicions and vicious traits of the savage.”

But what surely was most interesting for Dulles, who believed even in 1943 that the Soviets were as great a threat as the Nazis, was Jung’s prescient prescription in 1938 for how to deal with Hitler, this shaman who listened only to his inner voices, ignoring advisors and and critics.

“Turn his attention away from the West,” said Jung. “Let him go to Russia. That is the logical cure for Hitler…”

Knickerbocker asked what would happen to Germany then.

“Ah, that’s her own business. Our interest in it is simply that it will save the West,” said Jung, almost three years before Hitler launched his ill-fated Operation Barbarossa. “Nobody has ever bitten into Russia without regretting it.”

In fact, Jung had concluded that the only way for Europe to have peace was for Germany to be divided. A nation as led by these dictators was a huge mob, “a lizard, or a crocodile, or a wolf.” It is “a monster,” he said. “That’s why I am for small nations. Small nations mean small catastrophes. Big nations mean big catastrophes…”

No, he was not going to be a party to saving the Reich, with or without the Führer. But he would use the information he had learned from others plotting Hitler’s overthrow for the benefit of the Allies. —- By early 1943, Jung and Dulles had met in person, according to Deirdre Bair’s 2004 biography, Jung, which first focused attention on his relationship with the OSS. By then Dulles and Jung were engaged in a “still-experimental marriage between espionage and psychology,” the psychological profiling of political and military leaders.

Dulles gave Jung the code name Agent 488 and sent a telegram to David Bruce at the operational headquarters of the OSS in London suggesting he pay careful attention to the information as well as analysis Jung was producing. Among other things, Jung predicted Hitler would commit suicide as the end came near.

“Without specifying,” Bair writes, “Dulles told Bruce that Jung’s opinion was based on ‘dependable information,’” most likely from some of those who had been plotting to oust Hitler, “and perhaps from unidentified patients.

“Jung knew that Hitler was already living underground in his East Prussian bunker and that anyone who wished to see him had first to be disarmed and X-rayed. Guests invited to dine had to sit in silence as Hitler did all the talking, and the resulting ‘mental strain’ had already ‘broken several officers.’”

Jung believed that the leaders of the army were too disorganized to carry out a coup even though Bancroft had told him all about Gisevius (with whom she had started another affair), and about Gisevius’s involvement with German military and intelligence factions plotting Hitler’s demise.


In February 1944, Carl Jung was out walking and had a bad fall, breaking his leg. A few days later he suffered a heart attack and found himself bed-ridden for the next several months under the protective gaze of his “first” wife, Emma. By the time she allowed Mary Bancroft to visit him in mid-August, much had happened.

Enormous armies were closing in on Germany from the east and the west, racing to see who could conquer the most territory and determine the future shape of Europe. The Allies had landed on Normandy’s beaches in June and were on their way to liberating Paris before charging on toward Germany. The Soviets were pushing through the Balkans. And the German officers who had plotted for so long to eliminate Hitler were determined to make their move.

In mid-July 1944, Gisevius had decided to return from Switzerland to Germany, knowing that the last, best effort to overthrow the Führer was about to take place. He met with the leader of what was called “Operation Valkyrie,” Claus von Stauffenberg, and realized that part of the plan was to cut a deal with the Soviets. It was thought they might be more tolerant of the horrendous atrocities committed by the Nazi Reich.

Eight days later, on July 20, 1944, the massive bomb that Stauffenberg had left in a conference room with Hitler at the Wolf’s Lair, the Fürher’s secret command center, somehow failed to kill him. But it spelled death for the many conspirators plotting against him.

When Bancroft met Jung on Aug. 19, she was stunned by his physical frailty, but impressed by his still voracious curiosity. He quizzed her “at white heat” about the failed plot at the Wolf’s Lair. He said that he had not heard in any reports the names of the two most senior officers he knew were plotting against Hitler: Adm. Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr, and Gen. Hans Oster, so he hoped there might be new attempts to kill Hitler. But at the same time, the mystic side of him saw the surprising failure of the well-conceived plot as Hitler being given a chance once again “to lead the German people to destruction.”


And thus it came to pass.

By the spring of 1945, the Third Reich was no more, Germany was in ruins, and the challenge for the Western Allies was to persuade the German people to surrender to them more quickly than to the Russians.

Jung wrote a note to Dulles that he passed on to Supreme Allied Commander Dwight D. Eisenhower, saying that Nazi propaganda could no longer be effective, constructed as it was around a moral hole, or vacuum, and praising Eisenhower’s own proclamations to the German people, which gave them hope.

Shortly after the war, Allen Dulles told one of Agent 488’s longtime disciples, “Nobody will probably ever know how much Professor Jung contributed to the Allied Cause during the war, by seeing people who were connected somehow with the other side.” But Dulles said there was no way to reveal them: Jung’s services were “highly classified,” they “would have to remain undocumented,” and so they are.

But that has not prevented Jung’s views from becoming part of our collective unconscious, helping to make us wary of dictators and demagogues, and warier still of those who embrace them.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#6697: Nov 15th 2016 at 10:52:23 PM

Alright, as far as we know Henry VIII has four children that survived the cradle; Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I and the illegitimate Henry Fitzroy. None of which had children of their own. However his mistress Mary Boleyn had Catherine and Henry Carey, and there are a few others who were suspected to be his illegitimate children. Which of his rumored bastards has the most chance of being his, and if so what's the chance? That way if I turn out to be descended from one my interest in Henry VIII will be even more Hilarious in Hindsight than it already is, considering Thomas More was one of my ancestors as mentioned already

Isn't anyone who is descended from western and south-western Europeans (from at least the 1800's) also descended from Charlemagne?

And I'm guessing anyone with western and south-western European blood is also descended from at least one Roman Senator.

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
#6698: Nov 17th 2016 at 6:05:19 PM

Mysteries at the Museum is talking about the fate of Pompeii.

I like to keep my audience riveted.
MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#6699: Nov 20th 2016 at 1:40:32 AM

I'm doing some reading on America's Founding Fathers.

I kinda like Alexander Hamilton (although I think he had anti-immigrant ideas) but who is most the detestable Founding Father and the most admirable Founding Father?

edited 20th Nov '16 1:43:54 AM by MadSkillz

"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."
Demetrios Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Our Favorite Cowgirl, er, Mare
#6700: Nov 20th 2016 at 10:03:50 AM

I can't think of any Founding Fathers I don't like, but I know who the most admirable one is: George Washington.

I like to keep my audience riveted.

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