Subbing peeves

Anyone else have subbing peeves?

For instance, back then, due to how subbing was actually difficult to do, generally the subs are clear, less Japanophile-pandering, and are simple yet effective. Nowadays, it's more of an e-peen contest on "how much Japanese words you know". It's uncommon to find subs of former quality. They should really watch Otaking's "Life and Death of Fansubbing".

My first peeve is people insisting Japanese terms on words that have an official English equivalent. No, not proper nouns. TV-Nihon seems to enjoy "Mou~" when words like "Jeez!" can be used (hell, there was this thread about their subbing stuff in /m/ and I agree with /m/, their argument about "subs being whitewashed" is hilariously poor). As it stands, it's a place of "how many Translator's Notes you can put in a sub" thing.

I actually don't mind honorifics, but I commend subbers who can turn around to make it work (e.g. using Mr. X instead of X-san, or stuff like Overtime's Brotou instead of Gotou-chan).

edited 9th Mar '11 6:03:21 AM by Ookamikun

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Whether you like localization is dependent from person to person. A simple case would be gg fansubs. People who like localization would like their subs. People who don't like localization would hate their subs.

Also, honorifics should be left in if they're important to the story, like in the case of Clannad.

edited 9th Mar '11 6:05:09 AM by KousakaKirino

Imoutos are the best! Follow at your own risk. Tumblr.

I am on the side of always leave in the Honorifics as it tells what kind of relationship they have. Some series like Negima and others its really pretty important. Official subs for the Manga and Animes all left these in.

I mean 31 students and all of them Negi refers to them with different suffixes and only refers to 3 people without an honorific (none of those are class members) and those 31 students all refer to negi differently from Negi-sensei, Negi-kun, Negi-bozu (slang and a pun) and just Negi and then there is Nodoka's Negi-sense~ in which she always trails off on the word.

edited 9th Mar '11 6:40:42 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

I personally would rather have honorifics present all the time, but I know some people hate that.

Imoutos are the best! Follow at your own risk. Tumblr.

This thread is actually "TV-Nihon are morons"

Seriously, this is not a major problem with 99% of fansubbing groups and official releases. Its just that one specific group that does a lot of mecha is composed of fucking idiots

Thankfully we now have alternatives.

Like I said, I don't mind honorifics at all (using them in English context is acceptable). However, I do commend people who find ways to interpret them differently.

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Straight translations with little regard to actually making the dialogue sound good. I've seen quite a few technically acceptable subtitles that break immersion by coming off as awkward-sounding or stilted.

I always roll my eyes at phrases like "Even at that time" that suggest either hyperliteralism or an ignorance of how actual English speakers talk.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Peeve #1: Translation notes that take up half the fucking screen. Thankfully these things only exist in fansubs for the most part and they're kind of a necessary evil there. You don't have the luxury of the fancy extra menus that professional companies do. I still hate those though.

Peeve #2: Leaving words that could otherwise be translated well untranslated. If I am seeing the words yamayuri lily I am going to want to kill you. There is a way to translate that. Mountain lily. As it is we have the awkward and redundant half Japanese half English horror that is yamayuri lily. This came from an official translation too! The fansubbers rendered it mountain lily! But yeah. Things like that.

Peeve #3: Attempting to translate words that won't translate well into English. Just don't.

Peeve #4: Removal of honorifics when honorifics are important to the story. Let's just say that for whatever reason you removed the honorifics from Mari Mite. Like completely. Great job. Now try translating the scene when Sachiko gets pissed at Noriko for not using the proper name/honorific combo. And that's just one scene of MANY. Some series just need it. I personally would love them left in at all times. Many wouldn't so I'd settle for "Everything where such relationship hierarchy is incredibly important".

Note on #4: If you can find some way to render these things without using the honorifics as they are you get points. You get extra super duper bonus points of awesome if you manage it in a way that sounds natural. You also get bonus points if you are like Nozomi with Mari Mite and give an option for both with and without honorifics.

What would be Peeve #5 were it a Subbing Problem I have Seen: Partial translation of honorifics. This is just annoyingly inconsistent. If you are going to translate -san as Ms/Mr. then why are you leaving -chan? I mean you could render -chan as little or, in the case that it is part of a lover's nickname, some stupid ass nickname that would be sensible in English. This problem I've only seen in a dub so this isn't really a subbing peeve...

The Actual Peeve #5: Little attention being paid to sentence flow. How do people talk? Does this sound natural? DOES IT?

edited 9th Mar '11 11:45:05 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

I don't really think that's accurate enough, but I don't really know how I would translate it into English either.

It annoys me when they sub a song and what characters are saying at the same time in the same place, so the subs overlap and kill each other too fast to be read normally. In my case though that isn't really a problem most of the time since I don't have to look at the subs. Sometimes there's things I miss or notes that tell me things I didn't know about before though, though at the same time this usually isn't a problem since that sort of thing usually shows up elsewhere like the top of the screen. I also hate every instance of "kawaii" or "baka" being used over cute/adorable and idiot/dumbass/whatever insult that means stupid when everything around it is in normal-ish English.

edited 9th Mar '11 11:46:57 AM by Edmania

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

Everytime someone uses kawaii or baka I kill a kitten.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

No! Don't kill the nekos!

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

-stomps on a puppy-

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

KOROSHITE NEKO DESU~!! ^_^

WATASHI WA SUPAA KAWAII ~^_^~!!!

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

The usage of memes that have no place in an older series.

ALL CREATURE WILL DIE AND ALL THE THINGS WILL BE BROKEN. THAT'S THE LAW OF SAMURAI.

This thread reminds me of GSS Fansubs's efforts on Gundam 00 A Wakening Of The Trailblazer, where they decided to complement the movie-within-a-movie's Stylistic Suck by gleefully lampooning every dodgy fansubbing convention known to man.

edited 9th Mar '11 12:49:48 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

hmmm....

• localization pisses me off. I watch fansubs to avoid having jokes changed to fit american taste...goddamn Coal Guys.

• subtitles making characters talk like they're in 4Chan...Ayako

• stupid TL notes that don't translate or explain anything...Ayako and a bunch of other fansubbers

• use of japanese words where obvious english equivalents exists (your ~mou vs. geez example is actually okay imo)...like using imouto rather than little sister.

• Gag Sub

• inserting facial expressions into the subtitles...like 0_0 or stuff like that.

edited 9th Mar '11 12:50:16 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Geez is a horrible word. You might as well use "golly" or "gosh" or "gee". It just sounds bad. Do people actually USE geez nowadays? I'd rather subbers omit "mou" completely than use "geez".

Oh God, I am supremely irritated by the use of honorifics in fansubs. In most contexts things like Mr. or Ms./Mrs. can be used in place of -san. A playful nickname can easily be a stand-in for -chan or -kun, too. It's especially jarring when it happens in series that have more western settings and character names. I've seen at least one Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood fansub that used things like "Mustang-kun" and "Alphonse-kun". Makes me shudder. >_>

edited 9th Mar '11 1:08:20 PM by AXavierB

But the problem is honorifics are really important in the japanese language.

For one thing, a lot of comedy anime will make a joke or two that utilizes honorifics. Other times it's to show us where each character stands compared to each other...

And other times use/misuse/dropping of honorifics become part of the story.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

In the case of Western settings my position is to drop the use of ones like -kun and so on. Find other nicknames if you have to. For things like -san and -sama use things like Mr./Mrs. Lady/Lord and so on. In non-Western settings where it is key to things? I better see them fuckers.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yeah, but I'm mostly talking about cases in which it isn't relevant to the story. It's OK in things like, say, Lucky Star because that show consists almost entirely of Japanese cultural references and wouldn't work if things like that were removed/translated.

edited 9th Mar '11 1:11:08 PM by AXavierB

Lady/Lord might be a bit too...much. Those fit the -dono prefix better.

Try translating onii-sama or onee-sama...with Lord/Lady.

---

^ I do get what you're talking about. But the problem is, even in manga/anime that takes place in a western setting, translators might leave the honorifics in just in case the honorifics matter at some point...

Of course, this mostly applies to comedy series more than other series.

Plus, calling someone "Mr.[last name]" just reads awkwardly...people REALLY don't talk like that in Real Life anymore. Not even among employees.

PS-this could jsut be a case of people where I live being weird...it's entirely likely that some people still call each other "Mr/Mrs. [last name]" in other places of the world.

edited 9th Mar '11 1:16:43 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

^^^This.

The thing is -san doesn't always mean Mr./Mrs. I mean, classmates will call each other [last name]-san. And it would be supremely weird if you started calling your classmate Mr. [last name] or Ms. [last name]. Honorifics are extremely important to show relationships and relative power and personalities of characters, you can't just ignore them or change them to something that conveys none of the meaning, or worse, distorts it. But yeah, if it's in a western setting, then things like Mr./Mrs. etc is appropriate in certain contexts, I feel.

^^Honorifics are ALWAYS relevant to the story in terms of characterization/character relationships. It's not there as an cultural reference thing, damn it.

edited 9th Mar '11 1:14:20 PM by Anarchy

Yeah that's a problem I have with -sama...I can never find one word that doesn't feel too strong or too weak.

I do think it's a situational matter in regards to what to translate things as. In many cases I think the -san would go untranslated and just simply be omitted. -sensei is situational too. Master or Mr. depending on the setting and context. Most of the honorifics are in terms of what English term would work best.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah