Why is Che Guevara Idolised so much?

True.

Hey does anyone else here keep forgetting that Mandela is still alive?

edited 16th Sep '12 3:22:04 AM by DeviantBraeburn

But then again, given as he must be ninety-something now, I'm not surprised. (For the record, I've always remembered that he's alive.)

I don't. Thanks.

Believe me, there's is a lot of mythos built around Mandela. For all his faults (and there are quite a few of those), he's done a fair enough job with balances and revelations. Besides... he's amaXhosa*: I can get where he's coming from.

Mbeki, however... Oh, I get where he's coming from, alright... -_- For similar reasons...

• So what if he has some Griqua to him? The amaXhosa have quite a history of mixing culturally with the San for centuries... it's no big deal! <huffs>

Sigh, look, people, I understand. I get that Che is an idol to some of you. I can understand that you are socialists, leftists, and can really get behind the propaganda/ideals/whatever you wanna call what he did. It does sound appealing, and yes, he helped bring down an oppressive goverment. I can get behind all that.

But I cannot get behind that someone would defend someone who uses noble ideals to justify hideous acts. I cannot understand how someone, when told the truth about what he did, would still defend a man like this. From most of Latin America's point of view, the man is nothing but a Complete Monster hiding behind a silk veil. That is why I made the Hitler analogue, not because he did the same things as him, heavens, no.

The man was a hypocrite. You may tell the other posters that they need citation, but where do you get that he was a saint? From his propaganda? From his autobiography? Give me a break.

Sure, he brought down a dictator... And helped install a new one. Not only that, but Castro's goverment, along with every Banana Republic dictator that is present right now in Latin America is because of him, both directly and inderectly. This Latin America is Che's legacy, wether we like it or not.

That is why the thread exists. Because yes, a hero can have flaws. Teddy, Churchill, hell, even Mandela, they all had their flaws. They were polititians, with a set of beliefs, both positive and negative, and they tried to enforce them in their politics. Ernesto Guevara, however, is no hero. The bad qualities outweigh the good ones, and he is responsible for a lot of atrocities. He doesn't deserve that pedestal, no one does, really, and he is no exception.

edited 16th Sep '12 10:34:36 AM by Polarity

I still think we should emphasise the distinction between the image of Che and the reality. The image is what most people respect or hate, and neither side (at least in my experience) tends to have much of an idea about who Che really was. The image of Che that is respected is that of a person who was willing to sacrifice everything, go to any length, to advance their cause, the cause of freedom. This image is not realistic, but that's because it is just that: an image, a symbol.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that this discussion is more or less resolved: an image of Che has been formed, and while it isn't very firmly based on reality, some of the things it represents are indeed worthwhile, even if you don't subscribe to a Left-wing ideology.

Thanks Best. You said things better than I could.

I just have to say I have yet to see The Truth being said yet, from either sides. I am just seeing people through "facts" at each other without much evidence and expecting the other side to just accept everything it was said.

So, yeah, I can, personally, understand how one can still defend whatever they are defending even after some other guy said the "truth" about the matter.

Btw, this:

Got me intrigued. First of all, which current dictatorship you are talking about, exactly? Second, the term Banana Republic is usually associeted with USA founded dictatorships, not to socialism or communism. I doubt any US sponsored dictator would get inspired by Che. Che fought to overthrown one, after all.

edited 16th Sep '12 1:24:11 PM by Heatth

@Heatth: I think they're referring to Raul Castro.

edited 16th Sep '12 3:39:47 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

"Because yes, a hero can have flaws. Teddy, Churchill, hell, even Mandela, they all had their flaws. They were politicians, with a set of beliefs, both positive and negative, and they tried to enforce them in their politics. Ernesto Guevara, however, is no hero. The bad qualities outweigh the good ones, and he is responsible for a lot of atrocities. He doesn't deserve that pedestal, no one does, really, and he is no exception."

In your opinion. Viewpoint change from person to person. How one evaluates at Che will depend on how much weight they put Che's good qualities and how much they put on his bad qualities.

I think @Best Of summed it up rather nicely. Che, like many other men of great historical significance (Washington, Hitler, Gandhi, Lenin, Bolivar, Tito, Reagan, Marx, etc), has transcended reality to become an Image/Symbol.

Is the Image a completely accurate portrayal of Che? No.

Is the existence of this Image a good thing? Depends on what think of Che and his ideology.

Should this Image be torn down? Again, completely dependent on your views of Che and his beliefs.

edited 16th Sep '12 4:23:27 PM by DeviantBraeburn

Dude, I know that Che is a simbol, an ideal. I knew that when I made this thread knowing that. My point is that turning him into one is undeserved.

Oh, and the whole post was giving my opinion, I don't pretend to speak for anyone, I'm no leader, after all.

@Heatth: You want a list? Fine, but don't get mad if I list a president that someone here thinks that is a "people's champion" or some shit like that. The Castros, Chavez, Evo Morales, Correa, Ortega, the Kirshner couple. Most of them under the Alba group, headed by Castro and Chavez, all in the name of Guevara's ideals. But, however, I will concede that Banana Republic was a bit of a generalization.

I... don't know what to say about that. What exactly do you consider to be a "dictator"? I mean, technically only Castro is one. And only Chavez is perpetuating himself for more than two mandates.

The Castro brothers are the only actual dictators on the list. Granted most of the people on that list have had some controversial decisions and stances. I'm sensing that you dislike the "Pink Tide" movement.

edited 16th Sep '12 7:16:29 PM by DeviantBraeburn

I support the Pink Tide.

Red Tides are cooler.

All right, corrupt polititians then, happy? When you live for so long under these kind of people, the line blurs. And no, as you guessed, I don't support the Pink Tide at all. It's precisely the main negative element present today in Latin America.

@Polarity: Just read your page. And now I think I know where you're coming from.

edited 17th Sep '12 3:10:56 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

Interesting. Though I haven't updated that thing on a long time, (as the bold letters quite subtly say so) at least the parts relevant to this topic are still true.

I only know he's the communist on the shirts and posters that, ironically, sell really well.

@Joe: A history teacher at my school has one in her classroom. ^note She thinks he's hot.

I wonder what Che would think to his likeness being adopted by the Bourgeoisie? Not that we should place too stock on the opinions of long dead dictators.

Oh for christs sakes...

edited 20th Sep '12 5:05:49 PM by joeyjojo

Somewhere between annoyance and Stalin's reaction to this. (My assumption is that he's spinning like a top)

edited 20th Sep '12 5:08:13 PM by Joesolo

Yup... he'd be spinning so fast, you could hook him up for power generation to cover that concert... and a lot more.

It does seem odd that out of all the revolutionaries of that time, Che's the one who's got his face on all the shirts. Or at least is known for it. How, exactly, did that happen? I'm betting a lot of people don't even know that face was an actual person.

Iconography is funny like that: it's a very good picture that taps into a whole load of subconscious and cultural subtext. Historical facts? Can go hang.

edited 20th Sep '12 6:46:21 PM by Euodiachloris

@joeyjojo: Yep.

A good picture and a even a small cult of personality goes a long way.