It's A Mess: The Mean Brit

The Mean Brit, the desription would have you believe, is the inclusion of a snarky British person on an American talent show. By extension, this could apply to any British person being used for this purpose on foreign television. The examples don't seem to agree.

The non-fiction section is full of natter (there's a three-paragraph debate over whether Gordon Ramsay is British) and YMMV. The list includes random British people who don't fit the trope, at least one non-British 'example', and a variety of people who aren't well-known outside Britain. In essence, it's become Deadpan Snarker But Explicitly British.

The fiction section crosses over with Evil Brit and features 'subversions' which might not be, British examples with no explanation as to why they count and, again, natter.

What's the best option?

edited 27th Feb '11 5:56:50 AM by halfmillennium

I suggest we redefine this to be about including one panel judge who is blunt to the point of being offensive and has high standards, regardless of nationality, with a note that Cowell started the trend (maybe?) and thus many are British. And then give it a more specific name, because with a broad name like Mean Brit it was just asking for misuse.

edited 27th Feb '11 5:58:32 AM by ccoa

As much as I hate Character Named Tropes, this one is almost begging to be called The Simon Cowell. All it is meant to be is an Expy of Simon Cowell, after all.

Expy Cowell?

I agree. The trope is really more a case of "many talent shows include one particularly harsh judge on a panel, to add to the drama" than something that's limited to British judges on American/other shows. The main reason for Cowell's prominence on "American Idol" is that he owns the rights.

edited 28th Feb '11 1:10:55 AM by Captainbrass

How about the Mean Judge, note that the mean judge is often a foreigner (compared to the home country of the production — the US it will often be a Brit, in Britain it will be an Australian, Canadian or American, and so on) and make it clear that this is a Reality Game/Gameshow trope not just "any acerbic Brit".

edited 28th Feb '11 7:51:23 AM by Madrugada

In Britain, the foreign judges tend to be the 'OhyourelikeSOOOOOcoolroflz' ones. I'd agree, however, that a trope for the mean judge with no specific nationality would be a good idea.

edited 28th Feb '11 10:45:08 AM by halfmillennium

If we're renaming it from Mean Brit, how about Judge Of Dread or Judge Dread, Just For Pun?

And, for the cleanup, are we removing the hosts of quiz shows who are more likely to say 'well that wasn't very good, was it?' instead of 'never mind, better luck next round.'?

If it's going to be reworked that way, we should probably cut the 'Fictional Examples' section entirely, except for Simon Cowell's appearances in fiction and any other examples which fit the 'nasty judge' description. By all accounts, The Doctor and Edmund Blackadder don't fit that. The thing repeatedly falls into the 'Britain = England' mistake anyway.

The problem is almost every time I see this in a work, it is for a mean person who is british (and mean in the cutting, eloquent way that that goes with that set up). It is rarely an actual judge.

Dredd-related puns might be confused with the work, and this trope doesn't have a lot to do with Judge Dredd anyway. Mean Foreign Judge is the best I can come up with.

I read it as a take on the Evil Brit in a fluffy-setting. If you consider panel shows and their ilk 'fluffy'. After all, Brits tend towards plain comment, honest opinion (even when nicely said), sarcastic (and black) humour where others might mince words. Or. all of them at once.

Yes, Cowell Expies apply, simply as he codified it in capitals. But... a definitive niche: see Hells Kitchen. I'd avoid 'Dredd', though, in puns. OTT.

edited 30th Dec '11 6:24:05 PM by Euodiachloris

You have a point. The character type is only rarely a judge. It's just mean and British.

Yeah, that's what it seems to have turned into.

Bump