Mutants & Masterminds

Okay, So the point of boost is to make others more powerfull in certian traits along with yourself. And on occasion is more cost-effective than just buying more ranks.

(I keep forgetting that you can boost stuff like powers as well as stats.)

It can also apparently give someone a power or skill they normally don't have. (At the GM's discretion.)

edited 14th Apr '11 8:48:26 PM by Ezekiel

So, my M&M campaign ended this week.

I came away from it with the impression that it's simply too easy to break. The players built their characters very poorly - putting all the emphasis on powers and none on skills and abilities - and were still too powerful for the plot. This was, incidentally, power level 1.

Actually, the way they picked powers annoyed me too. They just looked for the "kewl powahz" that make you unstoppable, and then tried to justify their powers after picking them. There were things there that, really, I just shouldn't have allowed, things like Immortality (note to self: If the power explicitly says that nothing can kill you permanently, ever, it is not to be allowed) and Duplication with the Survival extra and Progression feats (note to self: If the power has an entire sidebar stating why you might not want to allow it, read that sidebar).

That said, as much as I talk about banning things that seem unbalanced sometimes, I really don't like placing limits on character creation (though I think I'll probably still crack down on Immortality). I'd rather establish some houserules that make character creation just work better.

One thing I'm thinking about houseruling in for my next M&M game (which may be anywhere from PL 2 to PL 10) is to say that the (PL +5) cap on power ranks applies to the total of a character's powers, instead of to each individual power. Hopefully, that should rein in the ridiculous builds and make them actually think about what they're doing - because really, they got lucky on their skill checks in this game.

edited 22nd Apr '11 4:48:31 PM by Ezekiel

Wait, you mean that the total number of power ranks they would be allowed to have would be PL+5? That's... rather limited, wouldn't you say?

Really, M&M doesn't lend itself to "serious" games very well. If you're worried about your PCs being overpowered because they're impossible to kill, then you might be using the wrong system, because M&M is more geared to letting players do cool things with their powers than it is toward actually being challenging. I've been DMing an M&M campaign for a few months now, and I have yet to have a PC take more damage than "bruised", but they're still having a good time (excepting periods of DM fail, anyway. I suck at pacing).

For the record, my party consists of a ludicrously rich mad scientist type with EM-spectrum powers (he can shoot microwave heat-beams and send/receive radio transmissions without any equipment) and powered armor, a dragon from World Of Warcraft (literally, that's his backstory, he's from Azeroth and got bamfed into Freedom City somehow), a magical girl style valkyrie (complete with Transformation Trinket and Superpowered Alter Ego), and a guy who owns a hot dog cart whose power is weaponized Food Slap (literally, he throws food at people, and then it explodes). So far their primary antagonist has been Olfactus, a maniacally cackling Large Ham with smell-based powers.

So yeah. Less Watchmen and more The Tick.

edited 25th Apr '11 7:11:42 AM by NativeJovian

If you're having trouble hurting your players in a straiht fight, stop trying. There are more ways to fail than dying. Have the villains go after the people they care about, that sort of thing; and if they're neglecting skills? Little things like bombs set to go off that need disarming...

Hm. This was supposed to be a noir-style campaign in which both the military and the mafia were after the characters, so the extremity of their powers was slightly disruptive. I did have an impending machine explosion threaten them at one point - rather than having to stop the explosion the telekinetic just threw the machine a few miles into the air.

Actually, reviewing, I see some missed opportunities. One of the players gave his origin as supersoldier experiments; I could've had them fight other supersoldiers with the same powerset. Jeez, now I almost want to run the campaign over again just so I can catch things like that.

Anyway, the houserule I mentioned isn't intended to restrict players, it's just supposed to serve as a guideline, since you can still pick from all the same powers, you just have to sacrifice high-level powers if you want to have a wide variety... but if I don't run another noir campaign, I'll probably run one based on something, which will require something different entirely. Anyway, if you check the archetypes, there are plenty that don't even have more than one power.

Really, what I need to crack down on more than power levels is origins. You know how I mentioned a telekinetic guy, an immortal guy, and a supersoldier? Yeah, those were all the same guy. That's not happening again.

edited 25th Apr '11 10:29:53 PM by Ezekiel

Also, for Noir you proably want a lower power-level. You want the gangsters to still be a threat, capish?

edit: Just saw it was power level one. wow.

...YOU need mini-maxing help, not them. What the players can do the G.M can do better...

and likewise, it should proably be more mystery than pulp action. Super-senses should be more useful than super strength.

edited 18th Jul '11 5:02:59 AM by doorhandle

I play on the Atomic Think Tank, the official message board. I'm considering G Ming a game with my local D&D group, although I'm a wee bit leery of how everyone wants to bring in their characters from the old campaign, an ill-defined Marvel/DC/whatever mashup, where apparently most of them are a good 20 pp up from a starting position. Well, that and I gave advice to the GM of the old campaign, pointing out how many of the players were trying to game the system (possibly unintentionally). Meh, we'll see.

Personally, I'm a 2E user still. 3E has some nice ideas, but it's at that deadly point of "not enough change" and yet "too much change". Honestly, what bugs me the most is that they arbitrarily changed so many of the terms used, often to common words that make searching for a particular power difficult. Well, that and vagaries of the DC licensing meaning that about quarter of the rules present in the 2E book are reserved for the "Gamemaster Guide", which has yet to come out due to DC taking forever to approve of books.

I've been meaning to nerf 2e for lower powered games w/o resorting to a lower PL.

IE, make the Speed power progress quadratically (?). Base Speed + 1 kph, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32... and 524,288 kph at rank 20 instead of 'Near Lightspeed'. Get rid of Immortality and Invulnerability (Replace with Resistance? Do we have something similar?)

I think "immortality" is one of the powers that should generally be reserved for NPCs. Not sure what you're referring to as "invulnerability", but the last game I was in disallowed the Impervious extra for protection and that seemed to work out.

Their is an Invulnerability power, at rank 80 makes you outright fuggin' invincible.

I also rule Ranks are limited strictly by PL.

We've had long debates on 2E Impervious on the boards and honestly, unless you let people take extreme defensive shifts, and take Impervious to that level, it's very seldom a problem for opponents at the same PL. There are a few extreme cases like the Martial Artist which comes with a +5/-5 Attack/Damage balance and therefore cannot harm the Battlesuit and Paragon archetypes, but +5/-5 is an extreme tradeoff, after all.

In general, Mutants and Masterminds is very much a system which is so easy to break that most respectable players shy away from doing so. It's not like D&D where if you're not heavily optimized, you're irrelevant.

Now 3E Impervious... that's a joke, and it gets worse the higher your PL gets due to the "half ranks" rule.

Yeah, M&M is one of those games where a GM has to not be afraid to say "No, you can't use that."

Okay, I need help with character's powers. We're playing 3e and what I'm using is Mn M's DC Adventures which uses 3e. I sequestered 80pp for powers which I've given to a pair of devises.

I just want criticism, and advice to clean it up.

• Field Generator (Technology) 48/40 pp Flaw: Removeable -1 per 5 ranks: -8 pp (Go 8pp over limit); A pack worn on his back, a hulking machine surprisingly light-weight. It has a satellite dish to on top to one side that swivel on its own and holster for his Battering Ram. It is harnessed by a cross X strap which has all the controls for the generator. It is a Removeable devise and I've given the flaw to the Device as a whole.
  • Force Field (Quantum): Protection; Base: 1pp per rank; Flaw: Sustained +0; Extras: Impervious +1pp per rank; Modified: 2pp per rank; Rank: 14, 28pp; Flat: Noticeable -1pp to total, Activation -1; Total: 26pp. A shimmering semi-translucent blue field wraps around Taylor's body, making him glow. This power requires a move action to activate. Any attack 7 ranks or below is ignored entirely.
  • Life Support: Immunity; 1 pp per rank; Environments (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum), Suffocation; Cost: 7 pp, Flat: Noticeable -1, Activation -1; Total: 5pp. A green field is added on top of the blue making a shimmering corona of green and blue. It sustains his life in any hostile environment.
• Cellular Stimulation Field (Biological): Dynamic Alternate Effects, 2 powers (Regeneration and Healing), 5 pp (2pp per power made into an array plus 1 to make it Dynamic) plus 5 pp to be divided amongst the powers. Both have the Noticeable -1 and the Activation -1 Flat Flaws. 7pp to be split. A red field wraps around his body or someone else's if he touches them. He can split 7 ranks between Regeneration and Healing as he chooses. Total: 10pp
  • Invasive Psycho Supression Field (Psionic): Enhanced Trait (Will); 1pp per Rank; Rank: 8, 8pp; Flat: Activation -1; Total: 7pp
• Battering Ram (Energy, Technology, Club) 48/40 pp Flaw: Activation -1, Noticeable -1, Easily Removeable -2 per 5 ranks: -18 pp; A club, more like a thick steel baseball bat, filled inside with wonderous technology based largely on force field technology although now used to give the weapon an enormous kick. It also has a self-guiding system. When activated, it is covered in a brillian white glow. Both powers are activated at once and heralded by the same white glow so like the Easily Removeable Flaw I've applied the Activation and Noticeable flaw once to the whole device instead of to individual powers.
  • Counter: Deflect; Base: 1pp per rank; Extras: Reflect +1, Redirect +1; Flaws: Reduced Range -1 (Close); Modified: 2pp per rank; Rank: 10, 20pp; Flat: Check Required (Parry, DC 11); Total: 19pp. Taylor may try to Deflect an attack my Parrying it, DC 11. On a succesful Deflect, he may Reflect the attack back at the attacker or Redirect is elsewhere entirely. Tied directly to the Battering Ram, he is limited to attacks coming within Close range.
  • Bludgeoning: Damage, 1 pp per ranks; Rank: 20, 20pp; Flat: Accurate (+18 to attack checks) +9; Total: 29pp. And then his +7 Close Combat: Clubs is somewhere in all this.

edited 29th Oct '11 1:34:22 AM by God_of_Awesome

Update, in case anyone is willing to critique me.

Powers 80/80pp

• Field Generator (Technology) 48/40 pp Flaw: Removeable -1 per 5 ranks: -8 pp (Go 8pp over limit); A pack worn on his back, a hulking machine surprisingly light-weight. It has a satellite dish to on top to one side that swivel on its own and holster for his Battering Ram. It is harnessed by a cross X strap which has all the controls for the generator. It is a Removeable devise and I've given the flaw to the Device as a whole.
  • Force Field (Quantum): Protection; Base: 1pp per rank; Flaw: Sustained +0; Extras: Impervious +1pp per rank; Modified: 2pp per rank; Rank: 14, 28pp; Flat: Noticeable -1pp to total, Activation -1; Total: 26pp. A shimmering semi-translucent blue field wraps around Taylor's body, making him glow. This power requires a move action to activate. Any attack 7 ranks or below is ignored entirely.
  • Life Support: Immunity; 1 pp per rank; Environments (Cold, Heat, Pressure, Radiation, Vacuum), Suffocation; Cost: 7 pp, Flat: Noticeable -1, Activation -1; Total: 5pp. A green field is added on top of the blue making a shimmering corona of green and blue. It sustains his life in any hostile environment.
  • Cellular Stimulation Field (Biological): Dynamic Alternate Effects, 2 powers (Regeneration and Healing), 5 pp (2pp per power made into an array plus 1 to make it Dynamic) plus 5 pp to be divided amongst the powers. Both have the Noticeable -1 and the Activation -1 Flat Flaws. 7pp to be split. A red field wraps around his body or someone else's if he touches them. He can split 7 ranks between Regeneration and Healing as he chooses. Total: 10pp
  • Invasive Psycho Supression Field (Psionic): Enhanced Trait (Will); 1pp per Rank; Rank: 8, 8pp; Flat: Activation -1; Total: 7pp
• Battering Ram (Energy, Technology, Club) 58/40 pp Flaw: Activation -1, Noticeable -1, Easily Removeable -2 per 5 ranks: -18 pp; A club, more like a thick steel baseball bat, filled inside with wonderous technology based largely on force field technology although now used to give the weapon an enormous kick. It also has a self-guiding system. When activated, it is covered in a brillian white glow. Both powers are activated at once and heralded by the same white glow so like the Easily Removeable Flaw I've applied the Activation and Noticeableflaw once to the whole device instead of individual powers.
  • Counter: Deflect; Base: 1pp per rank; Extras: Reflect +1, Redirect +1; Flaws: Reduced Range -1 (Close); Modified: 2pp per rank; Rank: 10, 20pp; Flat: Check Required (Parry, DC 11); Total: 19pp. Taylor may try to Deflect an attack my Parrying it, DC 11. On a succesful Deflect, he may Reflect the attack back at the attacker or Redirect is elsewhere entirely. Tied directly to the Battering Ram, he is limited to attacks coming within Close range.
  • Bludgeoning: Damage, 1 pp per ranks; Rank: 20, 20pp; Flat: Accurate (+14 to attack checks) +7; Total: 27pp. And then his +6 Close Combat: Clubs is somewhere in all this.
  • Cybernetic Interface, Enhancement and AI: Enhanced Trait (Agility); 2pp per Rank; Rank: 3, 6pp; Enhanced Trait (Stamina); 2pp per rank; Rank: 2, 4pp; Enhanced Trait (Fighting); 2pp per rank; Rank 1, 2pp; Total: 12pp

Hey, is there anything in Mn M that lets you Cast from Hit Points?

Well, there's regular Extra Effort, which you can use to temporarily gain two extra ranks of a power or a power stunt, but become fatigued afterward (or exhausted if you're already fatigued, or unconscious if you're already exhausted). The Tiring power flaw does the same thing for a -1 cost modifier (ie, it makes it so that using that power at all requires Extra Effort), and the Side Effect flaw can be used to damage the character every time they use the power for a -2 cost modifier.

Second edition had the "extraordinary effort" and "last-ditch effort" options from Mastermind's Manual; last-ditch effort seems most appropriate, since the way it works is you can choose to take a certain amount of injury and for every level of that injury you get one more use of Extra Effort. (So if you take yourself from healthy to dying, you get four uses of extra effort, on top of the extraordinary effort bonuses I think.)

Hmm. Not sure if I should start a new thread or just post here, it isn't THAT old so I guess its OK right?

Anyway, I've recently acquired some M&M materials and wanted to comment about them.

I liked the 2nd Edition rules but felt that they could use some polish, namely differentiating more clearly between the actual superpowers and just the effects that you could buy individually ala Champions eg. many powers were just "Blast with alternate powers of your choice". While that IS how the comics often portray them, I prefer a more organized approach.

So I checked the 3rd edition and I think they did a great job of doing just that! Though I'd placed the Example Powers in a separate section to avoid confusion, but overall, I think they handled it very well.

I REALLY like the use of Archetypes: they provide ready-to-use characters for players who don't want to wait long during character creation, or provide starting points to work from if they do. And they're OPTIONAL, so it isn't like you're stuck with the game developer's choices like you do with Character Classes in other games.

As for the setting, so far I've only read the 2nd Ed Freedom City sourcebook, but I really like it. Oh sure, nearly everybody is a Captain Ersatz of existing Marvel or DC characters, but I don't mind those, after all most people use these games precisely to adapt them anyway. And some of the original concepts are pretty good; I particularly liked the Greek-myth themed high-tech villains.

So far, I like M&M a lot (thought I have yet to play it- heck I'm not even done reading the sourcebooks) but I think I might like to try the setting soon. Maybe as a forum RP?

Personally, I play games on the Atomic Think Tank, the official message board. I'm not a 3E person. I think 2E was a fully mature product and 3E isn't quite ripe on the vine yet. So many ambiguities they answered in 2E and forgot to carry the explanation over into the new edition. That said, I understand why they put out a new edition.

How about the DC comics official adaptations, are those good? I haven't seen them myself yet. Are they 2nd Edition rules or 3rd?

All of the official DC material is released under the DC Adventures line, which uses the M&M 3E system. As for the quality of the adaptations, I can't really comment as I'm a connoisseur other neither DC books nor of 3E. The art is pretty first rate. Mechanically, there are apparently a few issues according to the errata threads, but people seem largely satisfied with the main complaints about the adaptation being how they interpreted the wildly varying depiction in the comics itself (who's a better martial artist? Richard Dragon or Batman? Who's stronger, Superman or Captain Marvel?). They do cover a great number of the characters, including some fairly minor ones. For example, they include Hitman, although sadly, Section Eight lacks an official build.

Personally, I think that some of the adaptations on the Role Call forum are superior, but it's all to taste and it can be nice having the "official" take on it.

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out. I've never been quite satisfied with any of the DC RPG games (unlike Marvel's, where the first game is still classic) but I feel that M&M will do the trick.

So...what do you guys feel of a character who's biggest strength is sidekicks? I made a character for a game I'll be playing in, and instead of tricking out ONE guy, I made him the leader of a Hydra-like organization(my GM made me promise not to use the 500 minions in combat). However, using sidekick, I made a squad of 5, the Elite Units of his organization.

• His sheet:
  • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=381954
• FOX Units
  • Fox 1
    • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=382276
  • Fox 2
    • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=382275
  • Fox 3
    • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=382268
  • Fox 4
    • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=382307
  • Fox 5
    • http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=382279

I didn't like a lot of the "core" of Mutants and Masterminds, but it had so many really great ideas, and I think the extras system is really nifty. I once built a very loose game that basically did away with CP entirely, but characters had "techniques" which had slots of 1 to like, 9 (for super high complexity that was only available at higher levels of play), and they had Power Levels, so you could buy various extras (and downsides-I forget what the drawback end of extras are called), and fill the slots with em. The main limitation (compared to M&M) being that each power can only be used once "per encounter" (Hooray 4E lexicon-except at the time, I think 4E wasn't even out and I was using Tome of Battle style).

It was nifty, but for some reason I abandoned the system mid-campaign and switched to freeform.