General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

What, so Sega can keep them on their leash and we still end up with stories nobody likes?

Can we please get over this "new writers will magically fix everything" mentality? It's not gonna mean dick if 1) Sega doesn't back off and 2) they're given full knowledge of the series' history and lore, and even then, that's not consistent anymore, so dumping all of that into a non-fan and expecting them to make a good story out of that is asking for a lot.

"In Sonic Heroes, while selecting Shadow or Omega to be Team Dark's leader, if you use the first-person camera to look at Rouge, she will occasionally turn her head in the player's direction and wink."

I always liked neat little touches like that, especially in an Idle Animation

Well, not for nothing, but the comic writers have shown a passion for the series and knowledge of the games and such in the past, so issue #2 there would be right out.

you don't REALLY need to know everything about Sonic continuity to make a decent Sonic narrative. If you have a good grasp of who the characters are, you can probably make it work in a Sonic plot.

it would be pretty important for the writers in question to be involved from the beginning of development though, and i have a hunch that sega probably doesn't do things that way.

In a Sonic game, gameplay should always come first. The story doesn't really need to be anything more complicated than "Eggman has an evil plan, Sonic stops him." Once Sega's got the gameplay down to an art, then maybe they can focus on elaborate storytelling.

edited 29th Jan '15 5:49:30 PM by spashthebandragon

Again with the absolutes.

Let's not start this again. You know what they mean.

I do agree with the thought that SEGA/Sonic Team should try to perfect some sort of gameplay style with Sonic (not to an art per se, but at least to something that's consistent and decent) before getting more elaborate with the story and/or adding additional characters/elements to the gameplay again, though.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:12:30 PM by Customer

Okay.

Which gameplay style?

Saying the gameplay should be the priority in a platformer is not the same thing as saying that the storytelling should not be given consideration. that's not really an absolute, just a solid guideline.

The one started by Colors and Generations is a good enough base to build on. They can just add and remove things from it as they see fit. It's obvious that not everyone likes it, but that's why it's a base. things can be changed.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:21:11 PM by wehrmacht

If you're asking me, whatever one they actually decide to settle on, which has been an issue lately. I feel like they want to move away from the gameplay present from Unleashed to Generations for some reason, but who knows. Otherwise I'd say they just work on the gameplay style present in Generations and such.

I also think Lost World had the right idea somewhat, and the game's parkour element could work as a mainstay if they polished it up some more, for instance, but it really depends on how Sonic plays in his next game.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:23:32 PM by Customer

You mean the Boost style that was technically started by Sonic Rush (although found its current form in Sonic Unleashed)?

Well, if you want to be technical...

Sonic 06 had a boost gem.

oh right, i forgot colors was considered the day stages of unleashed in essence (in all fairness i have not played it).

Yes, I did mean that as an absolute. This is Sonic the Hedgehog, not the freaking Last of Us. A Sonic game with an epic story but crappy gameplay is still a crappy Sonic game. I'm not saying there can't be a story, but it has to come second to gameplay. And, as a general rule of thumb, when story doesn't come second, it can lead to disastrous results.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:42:32 PM by spashthebandragon

@Beaver: Rush came out in 2005 (same day as Shadow). So that still doesn't count.

Oh alright.

Anyway, what do you think about an open world Sonic game?

So 06's field hub?

I think it'd be awesome in concept, but the world would have to be huge and filled with interesting stuff to do since Sonic's whole shtick is running fast. Also, I'm pretty sure nearly all Sonic levels ever have been linear (but with alternate paths), so the open world might have to be a series of interconnected roads and tunnels or something.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:53:22 PM by spashthebandragon

Don't remind me, I still have nightmares.

I suppose the fact that Rush was actually well-received is proof enough that the concept works for some people.

also, much as this has been discussed over and over, i suppose i might as well approach the question from a slightly different angle:

Let's be honest: how likely is it that a Sonic game, of all things, would have anything close to an "epic" story?

There aren't actually that many good videogame writers around. Off the top of my head I can think of four people/creative teams in the medium that have much skill in storycrafting: Taro Yoko and his creative posse, Telltale Games, Naughty Dog, and From Software. not that they are the only ones (it's not like I play every game out there), but because gaming is such a new narrative medium stories that are exceptionally well-crafted are difficult to come by.

I'm sure Sega could do better than their abysmal failures from the Adventure era, but I'm just wondering what Sonic fans demanding a bigger focus on narrative really expect from the franchise in case Sega decides to do that, or why they feel Sonic needs to do that given that the narratives in the series have always (in my opinion) been subpar. To me it comes across as asking Mario to deviate from the Excuse Plot of Peach being kidnapped by Bowser; it feels like they're in the wrong franchise (let's ignore the Mario RPG's for the sake of the argument).

Well, I don't think Sonic needs to go fast all the time. Using speed in creative and interesting ways is a valid take on the character too. You could have him run on water or trigger a 'hyper-speed" state where he's moving so fast that things seem frozen in time or slowed down in comparison (i'm like 90% sure this is a named trope but i have no idea what it's called). those are just two random ideas i've seen pop up every now and again, i'm sure there are other things you could do with sonic's powers that could make for interesting exploration.

edited 29th Jan '15 7:04:37 PM by wehrmacht

Considering that the Average Sonic game has about 9 non-alternate gameplay levels compared to most platformers that generally have 3-4 times that amound, an explorational Sonic platformer would probably just be 1 big world with no real discrete levels.

Actually, if they make it like Elder Scrolls where you just talk to people and get missions to go around the overworld to find stuff, that could work. It would probably be less of an actual platformer and more of a sandboxy game, but it's a concept.

i'm not usually a fan of sandbox games but it's an interesting concept. i think it might work better as a spin-off though, so people don't get as mad if the change doesn't work out (even if it did they would be mad anyway).

Ya know, I just got into a pretty winded argument on the Sonic stadium about the relationships between Sega, the fans, and gaming community. So the last few posts are a bit exhausting for me to read after that.

...fair point.

Last Of Us, Mass Effect, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, Ecco the Dolphin (so I've heard), Nights, Metal Gear, Bioshock, Heavy Rain, inFamous, etc. It really isn't hard to find decent-to-good storytelling in video games.

I wouldn't call the Adventure games "abysmal failures" compared to the recent games.

I expected something that built upon the story arc from Sonic Adventure 2 to Shadow the Hedgehog/Battle/Heroes. Instead of Sonic suddenly meeting a princess whose had a chaos emerald with her entire life, or getting sucked into a book, or suddenly discovering Lost Hex.

Heck, something to capitalize on Sonic and Eggman being enemies for so long. Sonic Generations, yes, but that wasn't much.

I think you've already made up your mind that they were subpar, which is why you wouldn't understand why anyone would want 'plot' in the later games.

Mario can and has deviated from Excuse Plot and told a decent story though. This usually involves getting away from the "platformer" aspect.

edited 29th Jan '15 8:03:09 PM by FOFD