TTGL Syndrome?

Cool Shades have been around since forever and a half.

the thing that annoys me about TTGL is when people claim it's original. It's really not. It borrows a lot of it's plot from the Getter Robo manga, and it spends a lot of time just aping other Mecha work. to me, TTGL is the Rob Liefeld of Super Robot shows, it's popular with a vocal following who hasn't given anythign else a chance, and thinks it's awesome because they are only there for testosterone levels.

edited 9th Feb '11 7:22:06 PM by Clawshrimpy

Does anyone actually think it's original? The back of the DVD box describes it as "a series that revives the spirit of the classic robot anime" ffs. It's supposed to be a Spiritual Successor to Getter Robo.

I guess it is.

I always thought Kamina's shades or any TTGL shades were Squirtle Shades. People addressed me on this a couple times saying "They are not Squirtle Shades, they are Kamina Shades/GAR shades/Man Shades".

edited 9th Feb '11 9:09:44 PM by Vorpy

Troper Page

TTGL at least in certain places, gets touted for being "deep". when it's obviously a parody show not too dissimilar from Shinkon Gattai Godannar

Where the Super Robot shows that actually have plot that try to stand on their own, instead of relying on being a spritual sucessor to a previous work, like Gao Gai Gar and The Big O tned to get mocked for not being over the top enough and try to be serious despite being Super Robot shows.

edited 9th Feb '11 9:12:49 PM by Clawshrimpy

But...it's about as "Deep" as FLCL, which was made by the same company? Didn't they say "We don't try to be deep and meaningful" at one time?

Troper Page

I'd agree that it stated out as a parody, but it seems hard to call the later episodes parodies.

As for the deepness of it, while I wouldn't call it deep, I'd say there is definitely some applicability to it.

Imagine Rakan applying Calling Your Attacks to doing paperwork.~Anarchy Rakan for the hell of it COMMISSION THIS BRIDGE!~EHK

I wouldn't say DEEP, but... a parody show? How far into it did you watch, exactly? It totally became its own thing after episode, like, eight. I mean, derivative, yes, but synthesizing the old stuff into something new. And I'd say it did have a message and a philosophy to it, especially the farther on you got.

So I think you're selling it short. It gets overhyped by a lot of people, which is kind of silly, but I don't like how people will often dismiss it because of the hype. It shouldn't be dismissed.

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.

There are people who think it's original and deep because it's the first Super Robot show they've seen, and it has a wider appeal because it's structured more like a more popular Shonen Jump anime and less like a mecha show, and it's tone is different than a lot of work other mecha fans enjoy. it's own plot doesn't even have it's own kind of substance to it, all the characters are made to be as "manly" and Go Nagai like as possible, A lot of the character feel pretty flat, if not seeming like they don't even think about anything they decide to do. which kinda is pretty upsetting for those of us who like our Super Robot character be able to show intelligence along with bravery.

try watching TTGL and then immediately watch Gao Gai Gar. and by "watch Gao Gai Gar" I don't mean quit before episode 20 because you hate traditional Super Robot or Brave Series tropes, watch it, pay attention to the scenes where there ISN'T fighting going on, and especially pay attention to it's ending and the tone of the OVA. S Ure TTGL isn't like Gao Gai Gar, but that's mostly because TTGL was written in the simple 70s Go Nagai formula. where Gao Gai Gar was given a fair bit of detail in terms of what was going on. and that's wat a lot of us who watch mecha look for, and why TTGL annoys some of us, attention to detail. Gainax was never really good at this.

Also, compare how both shows handle non-action scenes. Gurren Lagann has a great deal more comedy and Fanservice, where Gao Gai Gar focused a lot more on the whole coming of age thing and having an interesting mythology and drama. which Gurren Lagann, and a lot of those more "action/comedy centric" Super Robot shows lack. it's honestly kinda sad that, still, the Go Nagai style Super Robot is still the majority, when Gao Gai Gar did so much to make the storytelling of a Super Robot show more interesting.

edited 9th Feb '11 9:46:06 PM by Clawshrimpy

Shrimpy, you're letting your Takahashi-love get in the way of your arguing facilities again...

We're talking about TTGL here, not Gao Gai Gar, so I suggest that you consider the show on its own merits rather than making shallow comparisons to your favourite series.

For instance, I'd contest that the characters are simple manly caricatures. Kamina, for instance, was painfully aware that the best thing he could do was yell a lot and inspire people whilst Simon actually got stuff done, and Simon spent a not-inconsiderable amount of time and character development trying to emerge from his big bro's shadow and become his own person. There's depth there, if you look for it - it simply addresses rather different themes to GGG. The men of today must let the youth of tomorrow do their thing rather than holding them back with their presence, the limitless potential of humanity has dangers of its own, and so on.

As for it being a simple parody (or a pure comedy of any sort), I'd say that only holds true for the first arc. The second and third in particular get considerably more serious and introspective - the third in particular is very short on comedy indeed, seeming far more interested in addressing the tropes present in the genre rather than sitting back and pointing and laughing.

edited 10th Feb '11 12:46:28 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

That's why I prefer Nagahama's stories. Most of them have focused goals, not going big (e.g. one was romance, one was finding their mother (It's Sougen No Marco meets Super Robot!), while one has the basic Super Robot plot), but at the same time they have this huge effect in storytelling (racism among aliens, etc.).

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Not saying TTGL is the only Super Robot show guilty of this simple writing, either. Mazinger, Getter Robo, Godannar, and sadly most Super Robot shows are written this way. Gao Gai Gar was sort of cast aside after all these years, and that was really a mistake, (Project Z deserved to see the light of day, Sunrise.but NOPE, Gundam SEED was allready doing gangbusters and Sunrise was well into a studio-wide cancer. I don't even think Sunrise kept Studio 7 around. :( ) in fact, I would argue that the golden age of Super Robot was the 1990s, because of Brave Series and the Eldoran trilogy.

after Gao Gai Gar and The Big O you'd think the standard for Super Robot writing would just naturally be higher by now. but no, TTGL was a bunch of Go Nagai fellatio and it was a runaway hit.

edited 10th Feb '11 12:59:55 AM by Clawshrimpy

... you didn't actually read my post, did you?

Seriously, man, it would be a lot easier to discuss things with you if you stopped reeling off the memorised talking points and engaged with what other people are saying in the here-and-now.

What's precedent ever done for us?

most of the characters in Gurren Lagann are poorly written. the two major characters that die, die only because they are Too Dumb to Live.

it was impposible to sympathise with Kamina and Kittan's deaths, because they died by charging forward into situations that would obviously get them killed. and most of the other character simply are unlikable because of how clueless they are. It's.... It's like I'm watching Martian Successor Nadesico again... except the cast is actually somehow dumber.

edited 10th Feb '11 1:12:52 AM by Clawshrimpy

... what? In both cases, they got killed doing things vital to the success of the mission (knocking the only person capable of ending the fight out of a Heroic BSoD and taking down the superweapon that was going to kill them all respectively), and Kittan in particular knew it was going to be a one-way trip, but a necessary one. Hence the whole Last Kiss business. That was a Heroic Sacrifice, not Too Dumb to Live.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Heroic Sacrifice is what Leo Shishioh did in Gao Gai Gar, and it actually meant something because 1. he was a scientist, he was the only one with know-how to use the shuttle to help Guy disperse the spatial anomaly Arm had set up near Jupiter. 2. the Primeval moons scored a hit on his shuttle while he was doing this. 3. it was burning up in Jupiter's Atmosphere that technically killed him. all variables that were outside of his control. Yes he knew it was dangerous to head out in the shuttle, but he was the only one with the expertise. You know, instead of Gurren Lagann where the first character that died, died because he went on the enemy ship specifically just to Bright Slap Simon. and then stood around ON the enemy ship gloating. the second one just rushed out and thought he could brute force what was essentially a black hole and win.

Thing is, he did win against that black hole. It wan't like they had alternatives, either - it was a last-ditch gamble which they tried to give him the best odds possible of succeding in. I'm really failing to see what, if anything, was stupid about his actions there.

What's precedent ever done for us?

That's the whole point, the series is so absurd in it's writing it's impossible to take it seriously. that's pretty much the line between serious plot and parody right there.

Bigger Isnt Better and characters that just act manly all the time, are reckless all the time, and just beat their chest is in no way interesting. it's one-dimensional.

edited 10th Feb '11 3:42:01 AM by Clawshrimpy

... no, you said he died because he, the character, was Too Dumb to Live. This is self-evidently not the case. He made an informed decision, and picked the only reasonable option in the circumstances. It just happened to be almost guaranteed to result in his death.

And remember what I said about the talking points? We may have to set up a jar here.

edited 10th Feb '11 3:46:08 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

but death should not be glorified! Kamina's death was being Too Dumb to Live, Kittan's death was Flanderization of the highest degree, both are equally stupid.

... hold on a sec, weren't you just defending another series's use of the Heroic Sacrifice trope a moment ago? In fact, Gao Gai Gar has a fair few of them. Besides, this was a pretty clear case of needs of many versus needs of few - if Kittan hadn't done that Airstrike Impossible on the Death Spiral, then everyone, including him, would have died.

And just what does Flanderisation have to do with anything here?

What's precedent ever done for us?

I mean, Kittan just does so, so recklessly, it comes off like he wants to die. and keep in mind, most of the Heroic Sacrifices in Gao Gai Gar are done by lifeless AI Robots which get better at some point or another. Chou Ryu Jin's toward the beginning of the Primeval arc SEEMS permanent, but he gets better after being dug up at an archeological dig. as for humans Leo and Papillon's deaths were intended to be shocking twists, not really hammed up for ULTIMATE MANLINESS factor. as for FINAL's ending. none of the heroes directly die, they are just trapped. which is part of why I think FINAL was so beautifully written. all the deaths in Gurren Lagann were hammed up to be "manly" when most of the time they made them seem silly and pointless instead. Kittan and Kamina's death come off as silly and pointless is Gai Daijouji's death from Nadesico.

edited 10th Feb '11 4:36:31 AM by Clawshrimpy

I know I shouldn't have posted in the thread, to be honest. the OP just kinda bugged me, though. TTGL is so damn overrated...

MST3K Mantra ...... MST3K Mantra

edited 10th Feb '11 6:36:51 AM by Clawshrimpy

If you want a show that actually likes to show how hot bloodedness can be bad, G Gundam should be it.

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Yeah, I know. unfortunately shows like that are in the minority.

@Clawshrimpy:

...Uh, since when does "deep" mean "original"? Gurren Lagann does have some depth to it, if nowhere near as much as certain fanboys would have you believe. And it's not a parody, it's a tribute, just like Gunbuster and (in a rather warped way) Neon Genesis Evangelion before it.

edited 10th Feb '11 8:44:37 AM by Nyktos

I guess it is.