Puella Magi Madoka Magica

An old web story called Sailor Nothing addresses the PTSD that the girls go through and it doesn't shy away for the violence that the heroines face.

I'm reluctant to agree with a lot of the stuff people say is deconstructive about Madoka, because I've seen magical girl classics like Cardcaptor Sakura, Nanoha, and Sailor Moon do stuff that looks awfully similar, just not played as dark.

Like the bit about Sayaka's relationships deteriorating when she's busy magical girling. Nanoha had conflicts with her family and friends because she couldn't fucking say what's going on for two seasons because ??? was staying out at night fighting things and being sad and won't tell them why. Because it's a lighter show than Madoka, it's nothing worse than them going "we know something's going on and we wish you would tell us, but we trust you so just stay safe," but the point is that the conflict was already there. It was part of one of the biggest names in pre-Madoka magical girl shows. The difference with Madoka is that everything goes much more to shit, in large part because Sayaka has uncompromising standards. Everything sucking forever is certainly not more realistic than everything being fluffy and wonderful forever, and from my informal study your typical magical girl does not have anything like Sayaka's attitude. (Usagi's got a grab-bag of vices and everyone loves her, Nanoha mostly hangs out with reformed criminals, and I'm not 100% sure that end-of-series Sakura realizes that "bad person" is an actual thing that happens.) So how is this deconstructive, and not just dark?

Or Sereg's thing about how someone's only gonna give you powers if it benefits them. Yuuno and Kero are both completely upfront about the fact that the reason they're handing out the power to vanquish monsters is that they directly benefit from those monsters getting vanquished. Compared to that, Kyubey's energy-collection motivations seem weird and circuitous. Am I watching a non-representative sample here? (Three shows is a small sample, if nothing else.) Am I just being too picky?

The general problem with calling things "deconstructions," at least around here, is that something (probably English class) convinced people that it means "insightful and dark writing" when it's really closer to Reality Ensues and doesn't necessarily have to be dark. Add in the extreme popularity of Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids! and it becomes a means of Gushing About Shows You Like (because they're dark, and dark is smart, and smart is good!) more than anything else.

Most of Madoka involves depression in some way, so it's more cynical and relentlessly negative than "realistically dark" (until Madoka does her thing). That's not a bad thing—it's the whole point! Reality and life are heavily influenced by your perception of them, for better or for worse. Their lives suck because they can't admit what they really want and/or misunderstand what other people want, leading them in the wrong direction and preventing them from confronting reality, which is almost the opposite of a deconstruction.

But of a random post, but I feel like this song describes episode 12 Madoka Kaname pretty well (look at the translated lyrics):

Oh my friend.

We all know when you make comparisons between Madoka and Kamen Rider, you go with Kamen Rider Ryuki.

....Though now that I think about it, Madoka and Gaim's main character Kouta do have one thing in common.

Edit: And then, my dumb ass remembers that Gaim and Madoka had the same damn writer!!!!

Durrr! I is Rob! My brain no good!

edited 11th Aug '16 4:02:39 PM by HandsomeRob

Seriously, watching Gaim makes me wonder how Urobuchi really feels about post-Rebellion Homura, considering how he portrays Mitsuzane.

...

Hmm. Now I wonder.

How far have you gotten through Gaim?

Speaking of wishes, WIXOSS seems to criticize Madoka's wish and it even calls it selfish. How much is that is true?

Really?

How so? Is it because she separates herself from her friends and family or what? Or because she decided to place herself in the role of the one who decides how the entire universe should work? I'd like to hear this.

I find it hard to believe Madoka's wish is selfish. Imperfect maybe, but she tried hard to find the best solution for everyone.

That being said, I can believe it. If there's one thing that Madoka made a point of, it's that there's selfishness in any wish. Hell, the idea of there being no selfless wishes was something of a plot point.

I don't know what Wixoss said about it. But I felt like the point was, while Madoka's wish was completely selfless, it's pretty much impossible for a real human to do that, to have Incorruptible Pure Pureness as their defining characteristic and only worldly desire. Madoka becomes a god because she was always more of a concept (of hope) than a person, something that most people possess in some quantity but not really a complete human, because being a real individual requires at least a tiny bit of self-interest.

On the other hand... placing no value on your own existence, regardless of how much other people tell you they care about you, is kind of the defining characteristic of depression. All the characters have mental issues, but Madoka represents probably the most common type of depression in the modern world—not caused by trauma, just feelings of insignificance and powerlessness. She seems happier as a god, but... she erased herself from existence, which is what many suicidal people really hope to accomplish (though it never works in reality, of course), and she doesn't see why that would be a problem for anyone. And then Rebellion happened, because it was a problem... and we all know how impenetrable the morality arguments got after that.

So, it's complicated. In a way, even pure selflessness can be selfish because people's lives are interconnected, so throwing your life away in the most morally-justified way imaginable still has negative consequences. "A friend to everyone is a friend to no one."

I've seen WIXOSS. I understand the point (Taking yourself away from those that love you is wrong!) but disagree with it. Having negative consequences does not make it selfish.

Hey, being (a little) selfish is fine! If you don't care of things, you cannot care of things.

Again, I disagree, but most people on the internet find my views on such things to be extreme and insane.

I think one of the themes of the series is the balance between selfishness and selflessness.

Obviously, one cannot fully be the latter if they try to, but it is important to try to be at least as selfless as one can be. Sayaka tried to act as selfless as she could, but she was simply masking her selfish desires (Kyousuke's love and her overwhelming desire to be something she's not (a hero)) under them.

That's disproven by the last episode and Sayaka's happiness to die for Kyousuke.

Well, for the most part, Sayaka is pretty much willing to be hero, "walk the talk" and all that entails. It's just that she's practically forced herself to walk on boiling lava, without shoes. Obviously, she burned in the process.

I'm gonna disagree with it as well, but mostly because you can't apply it to every situation ever. These things need to be looked in context.

edited 12th Aug '16 2:38:25 PM by VeryMelon

Only Homura had a problem with Madoka's wish, because she does not grasp the idea of helping people just because it's the right thing to do.

Correction: Witch!Homu is the ones who had problem with Madoka's sacrifice, and that's mostly because she likes her and can't stand a world without her. And if we go with Freudian psychology, Witch!Homu ia basically the Id, that can only resurface because Kyubey basically cheats on system. Ego!Homu, while sad, can respect her choice, and Superego!Homu basically agreed with her choice, even if she thinks it's unfair for both of them.

So...would it be fair to say that Witches in general are the ids of the girls given supremacy?

edited 12th Aug '16 8:47:38 AM by megarockman

Idk. They seem more like Jungian shadows than ids, IMO.

Although the witch natures are more in line with Jungian personas. Homura presents herself to the world as self-reliant, Mami as welcoming, Kyouko as having abandoned morality, connections, and a normal life, but none of that's the full story. I don't think witches can be directly mapped to any one thing Freudian or Jungian, personally.

Homulilly doesn't strike me as being particularly self-reliant. She's a broken toy being dragged to her execution.

On a different note, this would definitely be a fitting song for TV series Homura to listen to for encouragement (again, look at the translated lyrics):

Meanwhile, this (again, look at translated lyrics) could describe Homura post series but pre-Rebellion:

I'm on a bit of a Kamen Rider spree right now, can you not tell?