What makith an RPG?

So WORLD Tree and I got into a debate about what exactly constitutes an RPG. I want to make this a more open debate because it can be rather interesting and because we were arguing it in an thread dedicated to something else.

I'd argue that all it requires is for you to assume a role and make choices. Whether it be changing the world or yourself (Fable) or choosing how to progress through a quest (elder scrolls) or even a combination of the two (mass effect)

edited 13th Dec '10 7:37:29 PM by thatguythere47

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

This thread again?

Yes, it was mainly because I didn't want to derail the new vegas thread any more, so sue me.

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

One of the signs to look for are levels. If there aren't character levels, then at least some form of being able to upgrade yourself - Bioshock 1's camera and upgrade tonics, for instance, and Modern Warfare's multiplayer leveling getting you benefits and unlocking new toys. Caveat, though - MW and MW 2 aren't RP Gs, obviously, so a game can have RPG elements, but not be an RPG [lol captain obvious].

edited 13th Dec '10 7:45:47 PM by JackMackerel

Half-Life: Dual Nature, a crossover story of reasonably sized proportions.

I never argued that you needed plot control for it to be a RPG, Oblivion meets the gameplay mechanics so it's an RPG.

I meant we recently had this discussion, but eh.

To me it's the options you have to make different characters and play the game in different ways. So IMO Oblivion is more of an RPG than Diablo but Mass Effect is better than both while Deus Ex is better than Mass Effect and games like Planescape and Fallout 1 and 2 are what an RPG should be.

Of course that's my opinion, I tend to like stats and things like that but I'd take options over stats any day. That said, I don't think a shooter with stats is an RPG even if the stats are very important to the game.

:)

There are only two things that all RP Gs possess:

• Story progression
• Character building

After that, the details and mechanics vary wildly.

BEER! The only real RPG is Harvest Moon. Except no substitutes!

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

go for it, Ontario lawyer dude!!!

n/a

First off, what is WORLD Tree's argument on the topic? I want to hear his side of the topic, but regardless i agree with thatguythere 47's argument of what makes an RPG. RPG obviously means Role Playing Game, and although you can't create what happens in your game based on what you want to happen, you can assume the ROLE of a character you shape and mold by PLAYING the GAME the way you want to. The only real way to do this is to make choices based on what you would do. Will i save my childhood friend or the ringleaders of a rebellion against my now tyrant brother? Will i kill the bugs in this mans warehouse for him, or destroy his stock for someone else? Will i defuse the active nuke in the center of this post-apocalyptic town, or blow it up? It's your choice.

EDIT: By "and although you can't create what happens in your game based on what you want to happen," i mean you cant just create this town with these quests in it with the good way you would do it and the bad way you would do it for each. You are given quests with predetermined choices, however, you might relate to one side of a quest or argument between NPC's more than most. If you want to take this a bit out of context, you could say that that's exactly what's happening right now. I lean toward one side of the argument, but someone else (such as WORLD tree, or anyone else, really) may lean towards another side of the argument. (Long winded, i know, but i said what i wanted to say.)

edited 14th Dec '10 6:09:44 AM by Decimator

WORLD Tree's argument was basically that an RPG must have these four things:

1) The ability to select at least one "slot" of armor and weapons 2) Numerical record keeping, things like levels, stats, XP and etc. 3) An alternate system of combat beyond the basic maneuvers. 4) Numbers which affect the stats "passively" such as buffs or bonuses from armor.

And if it didn't have those it wasn't an RPG.

^While those elements are a part of an RPG, the inclusion or exclusion of them does not change whether a game is an RPG.

If those were the only qualifications, then COD would be a full fledged RPG.

#IceBearForPresident

For me, the essential definition is a game where there are numbers that you improve by bashing things and the game shows you these numbers.

There's a lot of overlap at times with action/adventure, but eh - it's kinda like the distinction between sci-fi and fantasy, in that there are extremes on both ends and squishier ones toward the middle.

According to Bioware, Gears Of War+a hub city+hacking minigames=RPG

Keeping in mind that JRP Gs are technically not RP Gs at all, this is what is required to make a proper CRPG:

• Character builds, statistics, and customization. If the game doesn't start with character creation, it isn't an RPG.
• Player controlled dialog choices.
• Interactive storyline with choices and consequences. If the storyline is completely linear, it's not an RPG.

Oblivion is an RPG. It's a terrible one, but it meets all the requirements. Bioshock is not an RPG. Deus Ex is barely an RPG.

I don't see why any of those things are 100% necessary, but I can't think of any RP Gs which don't have all those things.

Well, I think these would be pretty essential for a good RPG:

1. An interesting storyline that keeps the player submersed in the world. This is surely the defining characteristic of a good RPG.

2. Player-driven dialogue and a degree of choice (at least enough to give the illusion of being actively "in" the world).

3. Character builds/customisation.

4. Controls that will not piss me the hell off every time I enter combat.

edited 14th Dec '10 1:43:30 PM by DanEile

"You can only come to the morning through the shadows."

Eastern RPGs are also known as "RPG-Lite", so I guess from a certain perspective, you're right.

I, for one, prefer Eastern RPGs, but I also like Western RPGs because they tend to be more about choice and less about Level Grinding, {well, most of the time, anyway.}

In general, without going into too much detail, these are the necessary elements which would constitute an RPG {IMO}:

1) A leveling system and/or a system of some kind which allows customization and growth of your party members to some degree, allowing them to learn new spells, abilities, heart powers :P, etc as well as a character class system where each member of the party has their own statistical strengths/weaknesses/growth potential, and are suited to different tasks (ie, healer, fighter, mage, etc.}

2} Some level of dungeon crawling.

3} Plot-driven storyline, where Character Development is integral and intertwined with the central events taking place in the story.

4) Side quests and mini-games, {even though I'm not particularly a big fan of the latter}.

5} This one is more of a preference, but Elemental Powers should be an integral part of the battle system, as learning how to exploiting enemies with a particular Elemental weakness adds a new level of strategy in combat.

6) Traveling through an immersive world consisting of varied landscapes, towns with unique societies, {consisting of NPCs, stores, temples, etc}, and ever-changing geographical features {my favorites are the forests and Ghibli Hills}. If it's a straight dungeon crawler, it still must have some level of landscape evolution to establish each new area as unique in some shape or form.

edited 14th Dec '10 6:18:25 PM by joerc45

Teacher's pet.: Pillars of Moral Character.

No JRP Gs can be RP Gs? I find that hard to believe.

Umbran Climax◊

Maybe it's just 'cause I'm more of a JRPG fan, but I've always felt RPG in a tabletop sense is fairly divorced from RPG in a videogame sense and has been for a while now.

Even in *oh so many choices* WRP Gs, there's still no replacing a gamemaster.

Thus. Game where there are numbers that increase as you bash things, and the game shows you the numbers.

Personally I don't really like the term when used outside of Tabletop stuff, but it's hard to think of a good name so I end up using "RPG".

Umbran Climax◊

To be strictly technical, all games are RP Gs because they have you playing a role. Someone or sonthing else's role but a role nonetheless. A line of pixels that reflects a moving pixel towards another line of pixels along a longer static line of pixels between them is an object with a purpose and therefore a role that can be played.

I have nothing more to add.

^ And that's just broadening it the point where the term's meaningless, so yeah.

'Role playing game' is not a literal name. Kind of like Halo is not a real-time strategy game because it's in real time and you have to think strategically. The point of an RPG is that you don't just control something, you get to DEFINE the role. That's why Mass Effect is considered to be on shaky ground as an RPG (I still think it qualifies as one). Some early JRP Gs like Final Fantasy I are more western than others (they're still missing choices). Shortly thereafter though they split off permanently and became their own genre. The fact that there were next to no CRP Gs on consoles until the Xbox generation allowed the two genres to evolve separately without cross-pollination and without anyone wondering why linear turn-based adventure games were being called RP Gs.

JRP Gs are only RP Gs is you use the arbitrarily loose definitions everyone has been throwing around in this thread. CRP Gs do not need elements, armor, dungeon crawling, or even more than one location. If you want to get extremely anal technical, modern and semi-modern RP Gs like Fallout and Planescape aren't true RP Gs either, just the modern descendant of the originals. Fossil-age CRP Gs like Wiz/Ultima didn't have dialog choices at all (they still had non-linearity, open-endedness, and character creation). But Fallout, The Elder Scrolls (as crappy as the series is) and Mass Effect are still within the direct lineage of the original RP Gs and JRP Gs are the offshoot.

But, rare as they are, there are still JRP Gs that concentrate both on stats and the narrative roleplaying qualities you listed.

Are those not RP Gs, or do they get excluded for being part of the J sub-genre?

Umbran Climax◊