I've heard about it before. I have no more interest in reading it than I do the various "Ron the Death Eater" Harry Potter fanfics.
Or some story about how the Emperor and Vader were enlightened and just rulers trying to free the galaxy from enslavement to the Force and that whole Alderaan thing was way overblown.
Same. I mean, I like hearing the idea, but it's just so hilariously counter to everything Tolkien was writing that there's no way I could actually read it.
Just off the top of my head, Sauron was obsessed with preserving the past, not advancing science and technology. The whole point of the Rings of Power was to keep the world from changing. Yes he had industry, but so did everyone. He just had more factories and cut down more forests, he didn't actually research or develop anything.
I concur. It's a very old principle that rarely yields any good results, just demonizing the story and missing the point.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Weren't the elves of the past more advanced than the current ones? Earendil had a spaceship for fuck's sake.
So, according to this author, countries that industrialize are the victims of oppression by other, non-industrialized countries? That's . . . kinda the exact opposite of how this sort of thing usually goes.
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Unless you're Rome.
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, which is why Sauron forged the Rings to preserve the world as it was. Technology was declining, not progressing, and there was explicitly no way to prevent it. It did change, eventually, but I can't remember why. I want to say it was all the elves leaving, but that doesn't feel right.
It's the whole Magic Versus Science thing. Magic represents tradition and the power that is built up over centuries or millennia, while science represents the new and the untested. Don't think of it as non-industrialized vs industrialized, think of it as an ultra-powerful religion rejecting science because it doesn't fit their worldview.
edited 22nd Mar '18 6:57:41 PM by Discar
Sauron was obsessed with order, to the point of trying to force the universe into stasis once it was the way he liked it. The Ringwraiths are the prime example of how he would prefer all the inhabitants of Middle-earth to be - immortal and unchanging, but also utter slaves to his will.
Elves are susceptible to the temptation to keep things they way they like them too. Galdariel and Elrond certainly are more benevolent than Sauron, but Lorien and Rivendell are static, sort of museum pieces of earlier ages.
The end of the Lord of the Rings is the end of magic because it is also the rise of men. Mankind were created from the beginning as something of a force of chaos, providing change and forward motion to the world while each being forced to leave it after a relatively short span of time. We are restless here, and not bound to this earth the way Sauron or the elves are. In Tolkien's worldview that is a good thing, and death is ultimately a gift because it is an escape from the way things are ordered in Middle-earth.
Planeswalker
Galadriel knew it too, that's why she knew she had to reject the temptation of the One Ring.
... I'm still salty about her portrayal in the movies.
edited 23rd Mar '18 12:51:31 PM by PhiSat
Oissu!
Even the Cartoon version (which btw is 40 now!)?
Planeswalker
No no, the live-action movies. Sorry.
Oissu!
What was wrong with her in those? Aside from the third Hobbit movie?
Planeswalker
She comes off as creepy and unsettling, maybe even borderline evil to me in Fellowship of the Ring, whereas in the books her scene with Frodo is just more generally... Friendly, I suppose? I mean she's still a mysterious elf but not a cruel and cold one.
And the whole "evil queen" scene was very Narmy to me in Fellowship of the Ring.
Oissu!
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
At this point, she's an unknown player, and relations between elves and all other races are quite strained. I think the point though, was to indicate that she is incredibly powerful and potentially dangerous. She's presented as potentially dark, which isn't entirely out of line with some earlier portrayals of her in the Silmarillion where she either participated in or witnessed the Kinslaying. Later versions had her cross the sea by herself separately from Feanor's whole deal.
Her The Hobbit portrayal seems to be more classic Galadriel, ironically. I really liked The Hobbit's very grumpy, sarcastic Gandalf too. Overall, the Hobbit movies did a fantastic job with its canon characters. Legolas and Tauriel were weird, but I loved Lee Pace's Thranduil, and Bard was fantastic. Beorn, especially in the extended edition, where they did the "At your Service" "I don't want your service" scene, was amazing.
edited 11th Apr '18 1:13:10 PM by blkwhtrbbt
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Serial Procrastinator
I thought Galadriel's appearance in Fellowship of the Ring was great - she is supposed to be someone you can't quite get a handle on because she's so old and powerful.
"And when the last law was down and the Devil turned round on you, where would you hide, the laws all being flat?"
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
That's nearly exactly what I was trying to say. I LOVED the whole "Faery Queene" thing she had going on.
I think Galadriel is pretty good in the movies. The only thing I didn't like was when The Battle of Five Armies had her go into a super mode that turned her into the girl from The Ring. That just looked silly and didn't really fit her aesthetically at all. But other than that I thought she was adapted well.
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
To be fair, she does do that same thing in Lord of the Rings in the Appendices. Like, she goes and sieges Dol Goldur and "threw down its walls"
No mention of reinforcements or anything; it just says "Galadriel" not "Galadriel and an army" or "The elves of Lorien", just "Galadriel", so I imagine she just cruised up to the place and like, started wrecking shit.
Okay, I was wrong, Celeborn and an army of elves CAPTURED the place
but then Galadriel wrecked it up. like, not the army. GALADRIEL.
Lady rocks some nuts firepower.
edited 11th Apr '18 9:38:58 PM by blkwhtrbbt
Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
It helps that she has an Elven ring. Which just appeared on her finger as Tolkien was writing her, to his complete astonishment, and forced him to go back and rewrite the history of the rings as a consequence. Add meta-magic to her list of abilities 
'Then she must be lovely indeed,' said Faramir. 'Perilously fair.'
'I don't know about perilous,' said Sam. 'It strikes me that folk takes their peril with them into Lorien, and finds it there because they've brought it. But perhaps you could call her perilous, because she's so strong in herself. You, you could dash yourself to pieces on her, like a ship on a rock; or drownd yourself, like a hobbit in a river. But neither rock nor river would be to blame...'
I thought this was fun - a very Peter Jackson-esque scene from one of Tolkien's (many) plot outlines:
" - Baraddur crashes, and the forces of Gandalf sweep into Mordor. Frodo and Sam, fighting with the last Nazgul on an island of rock surrounded by the fire of the erupting Mt. Doom, are rescued by Gandalf's eagle ..." (emphasis mine)
Also, skimming ahead in The War of the Ring I noticed that Tolkien at one point planned to have Eowyn and Merry ride openly to Gondor. No deception, no disguise. I'm glad he didn't stick with that.
The last of Tolkien's great tales, The Fall of Gondolin, is being released this August.
If it's anything like 2017's Beren and Luthien, I'm already aboard THE HYPE TRAIN CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKERS.
I'm guessing this is Christopher Tolkien's farewell and last hurrah since he's retiring from the estate. A great note to go out on
edited 17th Apr '18 5:39:29 PM by Gaon
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Already pre-ordered it. The illustrations alone should be worth the money. I hope there's one of Glorfindel being glorious!
edited 17th Apr '18 5:58:48 PM by Tarlonniel
It's too bad it's not like Children of Hurin. I guess Tolkien just didn't write enough.
Holy shit:
...that amazing city of alchemists and poets, mechanics and astronomers, philosophers and physicians, the heart of the only civilization in Middle-earth to bet on rational knowledge and bravely pitch its barely adolescent technology against ancient magic. The shining tower of the Barad-dûr citadel rose over the plains of Mordor almost as high as Orodruin like a monument to Man – free Man who had politely but firmly declined the guardianship of the Dwellers on High and started living by his own reason. It was a challenge to the bone-headed aggressive West, which was still picking lice in its log ‘castles’ to the monotonous chanting of scalds extolling the wonders of never-existing Númenor.
After defeating the Mordorian army, the Elves enter Mordor to massacre civilians with the help of Men from the East, supposedly to eliminate the "educated" classes. Two Orc soldiers ("Orc" being a slur used by the West against foreign men), Haladdin and Tzerlag, are fleeing the battle plain. They rescue Tangorn, a Gondorian noble who had been left buried in the desert for attempting to stop one of the massacres. They locate the mercenaries and kill the Elf, Eloar, taking his possessions.
Haladdin is soon visited by the last of the Nazgûl, Sharya-Rana, who explains that the physical world, Arda, is linked to the magical world from which the elves came, by the power of Galadriel's Mirror in Lórien and the palantíri. He is given the task of destroying the Mirror in order to separate the worlds and complete the goal of making men truly free. Haladdin is chosen as he is a rare individual in whom there is absolutely no magic, and has a tendency to behave irrationally, for example joining the Mordorian army as a medic to impress his girlfriend and almost dying as a result, instead of putting his talents to better use at home in the university. While the Nazgûl cannot foresee how the quest is to be completed, he is able to provide Haladdin with useful information, including the current location of the palantíri.
An elaborate plan is devised which involves the forging of a letter from Eloar by a Mordorian handwriting expert. Tangorn manages to arrange a meeting with the Elves in Umbar, while evading Gondor's efforts to eliminate him. He is eventually killed, which convinces the Elves to pass his message on to Eloar's mother, Eornis, a member of the ruling hierarchy of Lórien. She is led to believe that her son is captured rather than killed. A palantir is dropped into Lórien by a Mordorian researcher developing flight-based weapons (under the secret patronage of Aragorn), and Eornis is instructed to bring the palantír to Galadriel's Mirror. This is supposed to prove that she is in Lórien, whereupon she will be allowed to communicate with Eloar.
At the appointed time, Haladdin brings another palantír to Mount Doom. Gandalf figures out his plan and, concerned that magic will be banished from Middle-Earth, casts a remote spell on the palantír to turn its user into stone, but this has no effect. Saruman, despite opposing Gandalf's methods, believes that Sharya-Rana's hypothesis about the relationship between the magical and physical worlds is incorrect and attempts to reason with Haladdin. However, Tzerlag touches the palantír by mistake and begins to turn into stone. In a bout of irrationality, Haladdin decides to drop the palantír into Orodruin because Saruman is unable to reverse Gandalf's spell. This causes the Eternal Fire to be transmitted to the other palantíri and the Mirror, destroying them and the magic of the Elves.
Haladdin goes into self-imposed exile and Tzerlag's descendants pass on the story orally, although the historical record officially contains Aragorn's version of events. Although despised by the Gondorian aristocracy, Aragorn finds favor with the people as his policies result in an "economic miracle" and after his death, childless, the throne reverts to the "rightful" king Faramir. The Elves end their occupation of Mordor and eventually leave Middle-Earth, which enters the industrial age.
SAURON.... KING!!!!
edited 21st Mar '18 1:31:42 PM by MadSkillz
"You can't change the world without getting your hands dirty."