China vs. Japan

Discuss.

History and culture will be less of a flame bait, so let's stick to that now, capice? O_o

edited 9th Dec '10 6:19:10 PM by snowfoxofdeath

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk

Hypothetical battle to the finish or what?

Fight smart, not fair.

I'm giving it to Japan. Them's some tough mother fuckers and they got American aircraft carriers backing them up.

My other signature is a Gundam.

I disagree. Japan has a very small military self-defense force, and they're close enough to the mainland that China could invade whats left after they drop some tactical nukes.

Yeah, we would move in rather quick and beat them out of Japan, but there wouldn't be much left of Japan. Basically, a Pyrrhic victory. But hey, at least we'd get Neo Tokyo afterwards.

Taiwan would be similar. It would be very bloody for China to do, and we'd move in and help kick them back off of it.

edited 4th Dec '10 9:18:58 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

The People's Navy is rather shoddy compared to how big the People's Air Force is. China would never get close enough to mainland Japan to deploy ground troops. Likewise Japan is a little too far away (without invading and taking South Korea first) for the People's Air Force to be of use. The JMSDF is quite formidable for its size.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

Japan already won twice xD

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You should be glad there are no actual Chinese or Japanese people here at all. (Technically I am of Chinese descent, but I am not nationalistic for China. My father though, different story)

Considering China has like 10 times active personnel, then China would definitely win in a war. They couldn't be invaded, so Japan would be constantly on the defense, something that is never good for your contry after the war.

edited 24th May '11 5:10:43 PM by Erock

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What Major Tom said. Of course China could develop naval capabilities to invade mainland Japan if it was a longer war.

Now if you excuse me, Starfleet is about to award the Christopher Pike Medal to my dick. — SF Debris

^^ If a country can't deploy that larger force, though, it doesn't mean squat.

The PLAN (People's Liberation Army Navy) is geared towards area denial more than it is power projection, so while they could hurt Japan greatly (if not to the degree of the US submarine campaign during WW 2; air freight might not be as efficient at moving mass amounts of goods as ocean shipping, but the Berlin Airlift showed that a concentrated effort by friendly nations can work under the right circumstances), the most they can do is slag the place. Just like with Taiwan, doing so would negate any actual value of the place, other than getting a few hundred more miles into the Pacific.

If they tried to invade Japan, for a lot of that XBAWKS HUEG army it'd be a short trip, at the end of which they'd be shrimp kibble in broken tin cans sitting on the bottom of the East China Sea. Japanese diesel/electric subs are no joke, especially not in the littoral areas that are the JSDFN  ^*

home territory.

edited 5th Dec '10 8:41:45 AM by Nohbody

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First, China doesn't have very strong force projection. You wouldn't want to invade China, but China invading you isn't really much of a threat either.

If they build up their force projection, then they'd have to get past the JMSDF, who are very formidable opponents. By the time they got through the JMSDF the US would have their navy their, and kicking of Chinese naval ass would commence.

As for them using nukes? Well, there would be no better way to either (a) trigger a nuclear exchange with the US  ^*

or (b) unite most of the rest of the world against them  ^*

^{Especially the Japanese, because they know first hand what that's like already and they would be very, very angry indeed.}

.

If China went to war with Japan, the US would get involved, and China would loose. Now, if you fast forward 20 years, having given the Chinese navy to build up some force projection, then they might have a chance. However, if it were to happen tomorrow, it would be a curb stomp  ^*

. Take into account that the Chinese economy is largely dependent on exports, and the US naval blockade they'd certainly put in place would strangle the Chinese further.

edited 5th Dec '10 10:20:22 AM by Lessinath

"This thread has gone so far south it's surrounded by nesting penguins. " — Madrugada

I just remembered but there are a lot of submarines in the US 7th fleet.

Between all them, the guided missile cruisers, and fuckton of aircraft out of carriers and air bases China probably wouldn't even be able to make landfall.

edited 5th Dec '10 10:49:28 AM by CommandoDude

My other signature is a Gundam.

Short term? From what I've heard, I wouldn't be backing China.

Long term, we're talking 1.3 billion versus 127 million, with Chinas economy growing much faster. Without any international support, Japan wouldn't have a prayer.

Of course, what with Japan being backed by the US, the whole matter is hypothetical anyway.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

It's not so much civillian population that matters, nor even military personel. Rather the efficiency and power of the military. Numbers add a lot, but I don't think we will see China zerg rush anyone anytime soon.

edited 5th Dec '10 12:04:14 PM by Saxon

Me

^ Numbers in and of themselves can be a weakness. Large population states more often than not lean more towards the attrition warfare side of the scale than fighting a war efficiently.

Meaning China is unlikely to care about casualties even when significant anywhere near as much as the Japanese or us Americans would. As described in Conservation of Ninjutsu, beyond a certain point the larger an army becomes the more likely it's going to be reliant on sheer numbers rather than fighting efficiently.

In the Cold War the US never would have been able to match the Soviet bloc man to man in terms of military personnel. A war of attrition in that regard was impossible for us. That and we learned our lesson in the Second World War. We needed to fight smarter and harder, not just with more men. The Japanese subscribe to the same philosophy for the JSDF.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

Good points. I retract my earlier prediction. If they had the ability to pull such a thing off, they would've done so with Taiwan years ago. The fact that they haven't tells us something - they can't project military power very far at all.

That being said, they're dumping loads of cash into their navy. They will gain the ability to project military power eventually, and then it'll be time to revisit the discussion.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

Doesn't the United States of America have several treaties with Japan stating that they will defend Japan in the event of war?

edited 5th Dec '10 5:41:31 PM by Pentadragon

More accurately, NATIONALISTIC chinese/japanese people here. I've seen youtube shitfests on that.

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That's about as funny as joking about the holocaust.

This thread is like flamebait.

Maybe you should narrow the topic more about "China vs Japan". Maybe like cultural or historical differences or something.

You think this is funny, huh? Do you laugh when you hear about Nazis gassing Jews, too? Do you even know what the Japanese did to the Chinese?

This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping.
Stay on topic, please.

My other signature is a Gundam.

All right, the "The overuse of cliched racial jokes" IJBM is that way.

Remember the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, and back on topic, please.

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How would you say terrain factors in? Japan is mostly mountain and consists of lots of little islands, so as they demonstrated in WWII, defending against impossible odds for extended periods is well with their capabilities. They are also very creative and advanced, so they would be likely to make use of lots of odd weaponry like the US has done in the past (Bat bombs? Flying tanks? Water-skiing wheels of death? Sure, Why Not??).

China is probably holding on to some nuclear arsenal, but if they deploy that they will win the ire of more people than otherwise, and incur some serious wrath. There's no telling if they could make use of their numbers, either.

If they wise up though, then Japan would be in for a serious fight.

edited 12th Dec '10 12:23:32 AM by TheMightyAnonym

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Oh, both sides of this get to touch me. Yaay.

Anyways, this wouldn't be a fight. The Japanese government is run by weak politicians who fold at the slightest Chinese provocation. The Chinese government isn't even looking for a fight (the government actually told fishers not to go to the Senkaku islands), but the Japanese government folded anyways. They edited the video of the crash intentionally to deflect blame from the Chinese fisherman. The DPJ is truly pathetic.

"I didn't steal it; I'm borrowing it until I die."