Bioshock Infinite

Okay, finally got it last night. The Scenery Porn is amazing, though I find the linear nature of the game rather limiting. ^note GODDMANIT I WANNA PUNCH EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKING CITY

Also, worshipping a Deist Christian who literally got rid of everything supernatural in the Bible and another Deist who did not believe in anything remotely similar to the Christian God is either an example of stunning ignorance or stunning Postmodernism^note from an in-Universe point of view, of course.

I think one of the major issues Infinite sometimes has is that the only way we interact with the world is through violence.

In Bioshock, it made sense because EVERYONE was crazy and its explicitly clear that you can't reason with them in any way. And we're taking down people who benefited themselves over all of this nonsense in the world.

In Infinite... I feel like we keep interacting with the world in violence that just doesn't make sense and only happens because I'll get a game over otherwise. Now, I want to be clear, I'm not saying I want to talk and reason with these people, but the structure of killing 9000 people in the process of going to this city and leaving just doesn't gell well with the narrative being told.

I feel like we're also reprimanding people for violence WITH the same violence we're reprimanding them with. I watched a video sharing similar views (which I sadly lost track of) and they looked at Daisy Fitzroy's Narrative Arc and Fink is, logically, her Final Boss character. Her disregard for Booker, someone who was a major hero in her timeline, is incredibly Out of Character and her choice to kill Fink is treated as 'Oh, you horrible monster!' when... We probably would be doing the same thing if Daisy was the protagonist; We've probably executed Slate and we later smash Comstock's head into a Birdbath; her killing Fink isn't much different.

And her choice to threaten a child also comes out as less in character and more of writing shorthand for 'We need you to hate this character now plz'.

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.

... You missed the whole point of the game.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

But, I'm not entirely referring to Comstock and Booker, but Daisy and Booker. The story treats Daisy as a terrible villain because she shoots Fink and her goons are killing everyone in Finkton... which is what we've been doing to all of Columbia the entire game... : / Her only real crime, in terms of comparison to what the protagonists do, is the scene with the kid and I say its incredibly out of character.

Like, there are scenes in Return to Finkton when you see Daisy's Goons walking around rooms full of dead mooks and its all 'Look at all the horrible things they're doing by killing their oppressors!' Except... we've been doing the exact same thing the entire game and leaving building after building full of dead bodies behind us. So what's their crime again if we're doing the same thing???

There's an inconsistency here that I've been noticing in a lot of games lately, though I'm not sure if the issue is with modern games or just something I've only recently picked up on, but its still an issue.

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.

Play Burial at Sea.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

Yeah, I did. I saw the scene with Lutece and Daisy and that simply screams Authors Saving Throw rather than something legitimately planned from the beginning.

Over all, I ended up hating Burial at Sea. Episode 1 was alright but Episode 2 left a horrible taste in my mouth with... just about everything.

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.

The only parts of Burial At Sea I disliked were the nature of the game's development itself (Irrational's falling-out, if you will), and how much of it was a tie-in for Bioshock 1. Even so, it brought the story full-circle in a pleasing and emotional way.

Ah, and I also hated the lack of a post-credits scene.

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

... There WAS a post-credits scene.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

I hated it for a LOT of plot holes, I really didn't like what they did with Elizabeth, the scene with Daisy and Lutece was a bit sour for me, and... generally what the plot did with Liz.

Like, she's NEVER in control of the situation (unlike Booker who shoots his way through damn near everything and Jack who often finds his own solution to some things) and the big sacrifice felt SOOOO arbitrary, particularly because 'Welp, Jack can do what I couldn't and is the savior for all you kiddies' and Jack is probably THE MOST boring character in the entire series and by no means is suddenly more capable of saving the kids than Elizabeth was...

Never mind the plot hole of, if Liz is the catalyst for BS 1, and that basically happens because she SOMEHOW didn't foresee her death, then she shouldn't have any knowledge/flashbacks of what happens during that game at all.

The DLC really reached to try and tie things back to the first game and didn't do a good job of it; It kept going in certain directions and saying things 'Because of the drama' or to set up an emotional moment... which then felt so forced.

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.

In Burial At Sea Episode 2? Last time I picked it up was about a month ago. I don't remember one.

Elizabeth dies, we hear Sally's rendition of La Vie En Rose, Jack rescues her. Then there's a scene during the credits where we hear some vocals and that's it.

edited 15th Jun '14 11:29:55 AM by FOFD

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

The rest of Jack's plane sinks into Rapture.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

Ah, this is what you meant?? My apologies. I meant a significant post-credits scene. Its a nice Mythology Gag, or Call Back, or Call Forward, or whatever, but its not like when we see Booker in his office during Infinite's conclusion, and we're left with the question of whether Anna is in her crib or not.

Infinite's post-credit scene sets off a wave of questions. Burial At Sea just tells you to go play Bioshock 1, which was notorious for its simplistic ending to begin with.

Burial At Sea was supposed to be the 'end', I suppose. So maybe they didn't feel like teasing us and just wanted to come full-circle. Still, I was disappointed. It might as well be non-canon at this point, but Bioshock 2 had my favorite ending of the whole series.

I don't see that as a problem at all, because the entirety of Bioshock Infinite was a Memory Gambit and a Batman Gambit versus a Xanatos Gambit and Xanatos Speed Chess. Booker's initial reason for going was to "repay a debt". He

It's not the major focus of the game either. Columbia isn't a well-developed setting like Rapture was. It might have been, but it wasn't as important as the dynamic personalities of our main characters (vs Fontaine, Ryan, Tenenbaum, Big Daddies, Cohen, etc). You're not there to question why Columbia is the way it is, or if there was a better solution. The greater problem is how Booker is going to break the cycle that put Columbia in its current state-

As for Daisy Fitzroy, I think her backstab was more significant than her brutality. And mind you, Booker and Liz went to an alternate universe where Booker somehow rallied with her cause, so, even without the apparent retcon from Burial At Sea, you can justify Fitzroy acting differently from the one that strong-armed him into helping her. All that said, in the grand scheme of things, I cared very little about her, what she did, or what we did to her by the end of the game.

Loved what they did with Elizabeth, absolute Tear Jerker.

I think that's the point, the noticeable change in gameplay and pacing (the creators commented on this as well). Also, Jack wasn't in control of his situation either. Jack and Elizabeth were both victims of circumstance. Unfortunate Implications, nonetheless, in that Elizabeth is a far weaker protagonist than any seen so far (to the point where I died twice trying to clear that last Splicer rush in Burial at Sea through no fault of my own, whereas Jack or Delta would've had no problem).

Maybe a little, but I believe there's some emotion to be observed there, in that Liz had no idea who Jack was, only that he would ultimately save Sally, and that her actions allowed him to do so. At least she died with some modicum of peace.

That isn't a plot hole. She was in a quantum-super position. Quantum physics, bitch.

edited 15th Jun '14 12:21:03 PM by FOFD

Akira Toriyama (April 5 1955 - March 1, 2024).

This cosplayer is almost uncanny.

edited 15th Jun '14 11:15:44 PM by SantosLHalper

Wow no kidding the face is perfect. Congrats on that lady's face.

Despite my screen-name, ranting to you about One Piece is not my top priority.

That cosplayer was actually hired by Irrational to help finalize Elizabeth's look or something for the CGI Trailer. Its pre-release cosplay.

Back to Burial at Sea...

You misunderstand what I meant by plot hole.

If Liz's death causes the events of Bioshcok 1 and Liz... for some absurd reason that's never explained didn't foresee her death (???), then she should logically not have any knowledge/memory of Jack and the airplane... but she does have memories of exactly that so... It doesn't make sense by the logic of the universe the game presents.

And, like I said, its still a bit of a plot hole that Liz somehow didn't see her own death coming and the reasons for it are vague and all but say 'Because we need drama'. Or maybe they just couldn't figure out how to make Liz an interesting PC or keep the plot going with her God-Powers.

I feel like Jack is mostly in control of his situations. He's presented with obstacles countless times, but he never has difficulty taking down his enemies or getting what he wants from them as far as dialogue and script goes; obviously the player has as much difficulty as they experience in gameplay.

But Liz is constantly being reminded 'do this or they'll kill you' or 'walk into that room and give them what they want and they'll kill you instead of giving you want you want'.She's like a pinball being bounced from one bumper to another without any self-control. This is the same woman who threw a tornado at her wardens; who poured an ocean over a single bird.

Now, there were a lot of tear jerking points and I did well up a bit as they very nicely developed Liz's loneliness which contrasted nicely with Lutece.

But the ending of Liz sacrificing herself so that Jack can save them and the ending builds him up like hes some great hero and the camera angles/lighting/everything screams this, but he's not. Jack isn't this great hero because he's a formless blob of a protagonist and arguably one of Bioshock 1's flaws.

There also might be a tinge bit of unfortunate implications in that LITERALLY Jack's only characteristic is that he's... well, a he. So the reason Jack is able to succeed where Elizabeth couldn't is just a big ??? What does Jack have that Liz doesn't???

Its not all bad; the gameplay is nice and changed up from infinite and the level designs, music, dialogue, and etc are all splendid. Its just plot is the meat of games like this for me.

I'm a critical person but I'm a nice guy when you get to know me. Now, I should be writing.

She foresaw her death before collapsing herself out of her superposition state. She just didn't remember that until the end.

Long live Cinematech. FC:0259-0435-4987

Uhm, heya. I've been putting off playing Bioshock: Infinite for some reason, but now it's so cheap everywhere I feel like I should give it a go. I really liked Bioshock 1.

Question is, though: PS 3 version or PC (read: Steam) version? I've got a pretty decent gaming PC now, but I dunno which version runs the best or the gameplay is best suited for.

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!

So, I bought this on the Steam Sale, just waiting to get a controller to play it (I don't like playing non-RTS games with a keyboard and mouse). I haven't watched any playthroughs the entire way through but I roughly know the plot and, unfortunately, the ending. All the same I think I'll like it.

Just keep in mind that ammo is extremely abundant, so I'd suggest trying out every weapon on your journey.

As a FPS, I generally prefer the mouse over the controller, and Infinite doesn't really change that. More precision, yadda yadda. Of course, if you're more used to controllers in FP Sing, you might prefer controller. You can always just plug in a controller into your PC, though that can be finicky.

Obviously, graphically the PC's going to be best, if you can run it at full. It's Medium settings are just above console graphics, if you can run it at Ultra the difference will be much bigger. If you have the hardware, PC will run the most smooth (as you'd expect).

edited 22nd Jun '14 3:05:43 AM by MangaManiac

Thanks. I'll go for the PC-version then.

Join us in our quest to play all RPG video games! Moving on to disc 2 of Grandia!

last i remember, infinite is quite nice towards middle of the road computers. i really didnt expect it to run as smoothly as it did.

Thankfully games on Mac are all pretty uniform. That's one thing I like about mine over a PC, games on it will run pretty well as long as everything on your OS is up-to-date.

Unfortunately at the moment I need to go home to get the one 360 controller we've got (got no more use for it since we have a One now and our old 360 finally conked out a few weeks ago after serving us faithfully the entire generation) so until then I'll be limited (if you can call it that) to XCOM, Empire: Total War, Europa Universalis 4, and the first Witcher game.

Just got the game this week on PS 3 (because my wife doesn't like gaming on PC) and played through it mostly marathon yesterday, finished it this morning. The ending was ... well, I felt slightly underwhelmed and I hadn't even had it spoiled. General thoughts before I respond to stuff I saw in the last ten pages of the topic:

Pretty good game. Didn't realize until I got to this thread that you could switch back to any plasmid you previously had. Will have to reply now, probably with walkthrough handy to find those last 6 telescopes I missed. Dislike the two-weapon mechanic only because I can't then choose to stock up only on certain kinds of ammo. Still not sure why Booker carried around ammo for all those Vox weapons he never picked up, instead of stuffing every pocket with sniper, shotgun, pistol, and carbine rounds.

I mostly agree with this; Fitzroy is more-or-less a heroic character up until she decides the "imposter" Booker has to die. But I think it is in character; your first meeting with you she has someone punch you in the face and then drops you twenty feet out of the airship she just stole from you. She's utterly a Knight Templar so I didn't think even her attempted murder of Fink's kid was OOC, especially given the historial attitudes towards warfare in a world still two generations before the Geneva Convention.

Maybe I'm more skeptical, but I didn't think she was a backstabber either. The whole "Booker was a martyr for the Vox!" screamed propaganda to me, so declaring you some kind of Comstock-hired fraud to be shot on sight ^** like if you'd been wearing glasses or something! struck me as grasping at opportunity to maintain her hold on the tiger she was riding towards the throne.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I can't help but find the big band jazz version of "Shiny Happy People" to be maddeningly catchy.