Bioshock Infinite

Suchong's death was in an audio log in the first game. You find it by stealing it from his corpse. Which is impaled on a big drill embedded in his workbench.

Said big drill is the unstable launchable big drill that breaks off of the boss Big Daddy.

edited 2nd Apr '14 5:13:52 PM by nomuru2d

I don't think Levine considers bioshock 2 canon.

I may be wrong about this, though.

Bioshock 2 is kinda irrelevant to the plot of Burial at Sea 2.

I always wondered when I saw that trope entry where it was ever mentioned that Delta was that Big Daddy. I never really believed it in the first place.

Okay just beat Episode 2. I'll say this right now. I was fine with Infinite's ending. This however? This SUCKED. There are good ideas, but too many never amounted to anything.

Hooray. We found what eventually kills Fontaine! We just had to slaughter almost all of Rapture to do it! Whoopde fucking do. Why did the Lucetes want to make Elizabeth perform a kill? Why was Sally so important? How is Elizabeth still alive? God dammit this was dumb!

The Luteces wanted her to perform a kill so that she would have what it took to eventually perform the baptism-drowning. Elizabeth guilt-tripped herself because she was responsible for Sally's entire situation. Elizabeth is no longer alive by the end of the game.

edited 12th Apr '14 3:51:32 PM by nomuru2d

Okay, I do get that. I think my big problem is that Elizabeth's sacrifice for Sally is undermined for me by the fact that she wound up sending Rapture to hell just to make it happen. Yes Elizabeth, you saved Sally. You also got countless innocents horribly murdered though sheer carelessness.

The end of the game reveals that she did it for more than just Sally. The reason she came back was because she saw the events of the first game and wanted to guarantee they'd happen to save ALL the Little Sisters. She just couldn't remember because she lost all of her omniscience, with Booker being the remnants of those memories.

edited 12th Apr '14 4:03:01 PM by nomuru2d

Which is already freaking ridiculous because her omniscience should have prevented her from being killed by the Big Daddy. Not to mention that Lutece can't be killed, so I'm confused to why Liz can. Even then, I'm still confused on how she suddenly is revived and lost her god powers anyway. It was confusing and I really feel it was damn lazy.

I don't care if she did it to free all the damn Little Sisters, I think its incredibly OOC to have ever put Sally in harm's way in the first place (what sparked her to go on this rampage in the first place is never explained either) and I was really ticked off by how little control Liz had over her situation compared to Booker and Jack. Booker and Jack would have slaughtered the whole of them, but Liz ends up dying for Jack to finish what she started. What utter BS. Burial at Sea should have been buried at sea.

Constants and Variables. Liz can do anything the multiverse permits...but in this instance the multiverse says that she cannot interfere with Rapture without getting herself killed.

Apparently the whole losing her ability to make and use tears had to do with her jumping into a universe where she died. I'm not sure how that one worked since apparently both the Liz that died to the Big Daddy and the Liz we play as are supposed to be the same Liz from Infinite.

Her deal with Sally is a bit complicated. At first Sally was a nobody to her, just a means to give a Comstock that somehow survived one final middle finger. After Comstock died Liz has a My God, What Have I Done? moment and decides to try to save Sally and rest of the Little Sisters...which due to Constants and Variables means that there is no outcome where she lives if she tries.

'least that's what I got out of it.

edited 12th Apr '14 8:55:01 PM by Spirit

Which that doesn't make much sense to me since Lutece and Liz are supposedly invincible, but they can die here? And, since Liz could change the multiverse and actively delete universes from existence, what the heck is protecting Rapture from her interference?

If its jumping into a Universe where she died that caused her Godhood to disappear, why was she able to use Tears in the previous DLC and why didn't she search out a universe where she didn't die?

The idea of Elizabeth using an innocent little girl to go into an unknown world and get wrapped up in this mess... That sounds INCREDIBLY out of character to me. Maybe I could believe it if we knew what sparked off this rage against Rapture!Comstock and set her plan in motion, but we never see this stuff. And considering she says she had been living in Mary Sue!Paris for a year before the Rapture plan started, I have a hard time believing she just woke up one morning and said 'Golly, I hate that Comstock asshat so much, I'm going to kidnap a toddler to give him revenge and ruin said little girl's life in the process'.

EVEN AFTER all of that, Liz AND Jack still didn't save that little girl. She still had to survive in Rapture and be turned into a Little Sister and god knows that she never returned to her home universe again with her actual family. That is NOT saving her.

all in all, the main problem with the story of Burial at Sea is it's desire to connect Bio Shock and Bio Shock Infinite.

I don't think that was the issue. At least, not in Episode 1. I think Episode 1 worked well. Episode 2 is where things went down hill for me. I think it really had to do with the writing and execution to everything.

Episode 1 had kind of a buffer between the two. Episode 2 decided to go full on How We Got Here and it suffered as a result. Making Rapture the final journey of Elizabeth, and having her responsible for the first game just spoils both games, and also spoils the whole multiverse meta commentary at the end of Infinite. This should have never been a prequel and an epilogue really.

As Liz notes being an asshat is apparently in the blood. Besides she says the reason that she went way out of her way to get revenge on Rapture!Comstock was because she was pissed at this one having killed baby Liz.

Also the Luteces and Liz are different being. And different beings. Puns! Put simply the Luteces are quantum beings - they can't die because they exist in a state of simultaneous life and death. Liz is basically just a Slider, jumping between universes but is as vulnerable as any normal person.

edited 12th Apr '14 10:59:42 PM by Spirit

I really got the impression that Liz joined in being what the Luteces were since the Lutece can also see all universes and are omniscient as shit. It wasn't really specified... The DLC has that issue that it doesn't take a whole ton of time to explain things...

Ah, I meant the whole thing with Elizabeth's Been There, Shaped History stuff episode 2 dealt with. It falls apart in several ways when you think about it.

So Bio Shock 2 isn't canon anymore? Those shitheads, making a superior story non-canon.

I, personally, feel that Bioshock 2 is the weakest entry in the series. And, BS 2 wasn't written by Ken Levine and he had no input on it so it makes sense that they would disregard it really.

I never saw anything that outright contradicted BS 2 though.

The only contradiction was that in 2, it was implied that Delta killed Suchong, while here it's just another Big Daddy. But that's a minor continuity error, and could easily have just been a mistake caused by switching teams.

Or just simply be explained as this was a universe where Suchong was killed by a different Big Daddy. They've basically written themselves into a way that prevents a number of continuality errors.

Guys, with regards to Elizabeth, I think you all forgot a little thing she and/or not!Booker mentioned:

Quantum superposition. Existing in all states at once, but only seen as being in one state when measured or observed. It can be presumed that Elizabeth's actions messed with superposition, and now her only position was that of a more mortal form, still subject to the multiple realities and memories of past, present, and future. Part of this is her fall from grace, part of it is her seeing all the doors despite no longer having great powers.

God damn, the ending, though, that was a massive surprise. I am sad that Elizabeth died, but now it all comes together, and Bioshock 1's good ending is canon, if it wasn't already at this point. Plus, hey, the whole business really mostly cuts itself off and things proceeded as normal for Rapture. Then again, considering that Booker still exists in some unaltered reality, it's likely a certain girl is still alive there...

edited 26th Apr '14 4:45:13 AM by RocketDude

Or maybe the bonding process Gilbert Alexander mentioned was different. Since nobody except Suchong, the little Sisters, and Elizabeth were there to witness the incident, Alexander probably wanted to replicate the results yet again and further it.

edited 26th Apr '14 6:23:26 AM by RainingMetal

>3648

You have to decide what's more important. Your part in the play, or the play itself?

Everybody seems to like the Luteces? It took me awhile, but Episode 2 made me like them, if but for that line alone.

Finally got around to finishing Episode 2.

With what's been said, I don't even know where to begin on that clusterfuck of an ending. So, here's some parts that really got me. The torture for starters.. Finding Elizabeth's corpse was crazy. Not Booker was a riot. I wish they'd included him more, I really liked that twist. The superpositions, the Luteces Game Over commentary, the time loop - all interesting.

That damn Spider Splicer got the jump on me the first time and scared the crap out of me.

Pretty much my favorite part of the DLC was Booker, his presence made the whole experience gratifying. Nomaru, thank you for throwing in that theory, because so far, I had nothing. What on earth is he? Why did he know so much? What you said makes some sense.

Did someone already answer how did the Big Daddy even touch Elizabeth? As she starts flashing back, we see it just charging her, when she was still God!Elizabeth? The conversation with the Luteces took place before Elizabeth went to Rapture, when they say that Elizabeth is giving up omnipotence for Rapture - then after that, Episode 1 happens, and then Elizabeth gets owned?

edited 28th Apr '14 12:49:56 PM by FOFD