Warhammer 40,000

Pretty much.

The Eldar would also count as good if they weren't such self-centered dipshits.

Some of the Craftworlders are of course way worse about it than others. Some especially delusional asshats want not only to revive the Eldar empire, they also want to stick the Mon-keigh in zoos or outright exterminate them.

...not really, the soviet dosent have anything to envy the nazi in crimes against humanity and how much of a dipshit they were, you can compare america(with their treament of black people) with the nazis and get better in that regard but the soviet were as dark as nazis.

Funny thing you can see eldar, human and tau as three face of the same kind: the older imperium who is done and they can barely do something about it, the imperium who can ether renew themselves or die depend of how things go and the tau who are younger and while better than those who came before, also stupid enought to think beyond is predecesor mistakes.

The Eldar Empire and the Imperium differ in that the Eldar Empire's fall was one major cataclysm brought about by centuries of murderous decadence — it wasn't a slow decline of power (morality OTOH...).

The disaster that broke the Imperium, the Horus Heresy, was small potatoes compared to the birth of Slaanesh's impact on the Eldar Empire. Not enough to outright kill it, but enough to cripple it and ensure its decline.

So while the Eldar Empire was shattered with survivors picking up the pieces, most of them painfully aware that they are doomed, the Imperium was instead left to decay over thousands of years.

The Tau have yet to experience a disaster like this. Their tragedy instead is their blissful ignorance as to the sheer scale of the conflict and the threats to their existence. Ignorance that is enforced by their own leaders.

The Eldar are doomed and know it. The Imperium is doomed but are in denial about it. The Tau are doomed and have no clue whatsoever. Though of course, these attitudes are hardly uniform among each faction.

edited 21st Aug '17 12:46:38 AM by M84

While it isn't finished (no page ever is), I think the new layout for the general Astartes character page is probably in a good enough state to replace the current page. Does anyone have any objections to this or other comments?

I like it, although all the links to the Primaris page are making me wonder if they shouldn't be wrapped into this one.

"Not even the Daemon Primarchs are immune to this; Magnus knows this first-hand"

Im interrupting this thread to remind everyone that magnus did nothing wrong, also Leman russ can SUCK IT, YOU BIG FURRY FUCK!

that it, you can continue with the thread

Meh, Magnus gets too much of a pass.

Well, he is pretty much the only Traitor Primarch who initially opposed the Horus Heresy and tried to stop it by warning his father. Even when not only were his warnings blown off, but said father appeared to have ordered his execution in retaliation for making such accusations, he opted to accept the punishment and ordered the Thousand Sons to follow suit. It's only after seeing the massacring of his sons that he finally broke down and accepted Tzeentch's insidious offer to save the Legion.

That Magnus underwent Motive Decay since then makes him even more of a Tragic Villain. Of all the Daemon Primarch, he's arguably the easiest to portray sympathetically.

edited 21st Aug '17 7:20:56 AM by MarqFJA

I like it, although all the links to the Primaris page are making me wonder if they shouldn't be wrapped into this one.

I went ahead and made the change to the general page. Should I cutlist the Sandbox or should it be kept for future experiments?

As for the Primaris page. I did think it was a bit premature when the page was originally made (as with the Eldar Pantheon page) but it is there now so I am not sure what the best way to deal with it is.

I completely understand the hate on the Imperium, since it can basically represent a wet dream for many asshats we'd rather not have in power today (although, unfortunately, we already have some of those around the world...), and, although I find many human (or almost human) characters awesome, they don't really make up for everything that came before and many Imperium-based world are, well, shitholes. I get that.

As for the main xeno races, I kinda get how the Tau seem to be comparatively better to the point that being a second-class citizen there may feel more attractive than being, well, an Imperial citizen, so they're kinda ok (though I'd rather get in touch with Farsight, really).

But that comment about Chaos? Well, they do capitalize on some legit crap the Imperium really did (and does) and I can relate to stuff that happened to some of them (Magnus, for example), but I wouldn't quite like the idea of supporting our reality getting messed up and ending up either rotting, enslaved by a Cenobite, fighting (and maybe getting killed) forever, becoming Alphonse Elric or otherwise becoming a spawn or all of the above combined. But that's me, really.

The Tau's biggest problem is that they're painfully naive and unaware of how utterly fucked the galaxy is. They're slightly more idealistic because they don't know just how scary and horrible things really are. Farsight's more jaded because he's seen things...

As for Chaos...yeah, no. The Imperium is a fascistic theocratic bureaucratic hellhole...but it's still way better than Chaos. At least in the Imperium they usually won't kill you for shits and giggles.

edited 21st Aug '17 6:24:11 PM by M84

Funnily enough Farsight quotes that exact clip.

Speaking of the Imperium sucking, think the fluff will ever actually reach the point where the Golden Throne fails? They had to have introduced that bit for something, right?

The moment the Throne fails, Hell will literally break loose. That would mean a massive push in the storyline, even more so than Cadia, Ynnead, and Roboute Guilliman.

This. If the Golden Throne breaks, the webway portal it connects to is split wide open, in which case Terra becomes a Warp Rift, before it immediately expands to encompass at least the rest of the Sol system. With Terra, Mars and the orbits of Saturn and Jupiter pulled into the warp, it is basically game over for Humanity, and probably the rest of the Galaxy-leaving it in a three way death match between Chaos, Orks, and Tyranids.

edited 21st Aug '17 8:17:24 PM by ViperMagnum357

Aren't there some who believe the Emperor dying would make him some super-spirit thing that would fix everything, though? Granted, given the franchise's tone that would seem unlikely.

The Emperor's first attempt at "fixing everything" involved multiple genocides and a spirited attempt to impose military dictatorship on every single human-inhabited planet in the Milky Way. I'm not sure I want to see what take 2 involves.

Though I heard the original Warhammer (which I admittedly know almost nothing about) ended recently; maybe they just wanted an "escape hatch" in case they want to end 40k someday too?

It'd have to result with either the Emperor dying or becoming a fully-fledged, free god. Both outcomes would destroy the status quo to an irreparable degree. I doubt it'll ever happen unless 40k is literally dying.

Warhammer Fantasy wasn't printing enough money, so they blew it up.

40k is still making money hand over fist.

The throne briefly turned off recently in the lore. Nothing happened other then the Astronomicon getting turned off for a bit, before it started up again.

The portal is shut, but the Throne itself is still the gate, and the human-made webway passage is still open to the warp. In the lead up to Dark Imperium, the Custodes, Mechanicum and their allies have to fight their way through the damaged section to get into the webway proper in order to reach the Eldar. While the Throne simply being there is sufficient to keep the way closed, if it were gone the warp would spill directly into the Inner Sanctum, and from there it would be only a matter of time.

Alright, I bit the bullet and am taking my first steps into Blood Angels...used part of the money from selling my Necrons to get a Sanguinary Priest, the Start Collecting box, and the Death Company Strike Force box. Seriously thinking about the demi-company box set as well.

edited 22nd Aug '17 9:40:45 AM by Willbyr