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No 40K thread yet? I'm surprised. Nay, shocked, shocked I say to discover there's gambling going on in this establishment...

I'm eagerly anticipating the imminent 5th Edition release, personally, but I was interested to know if anyone here plays and has a differing opinion on it. There are certainly plenty of people out there who seem to think that 40K 4th edition "only just" came out and that a new edition isn't needed. Anyone?


Warhammer Fantasy (including Age of Sigmar and WFRP) has its own thread here.

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:37:34 PM

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26676: May 25th 2017 at 5:18:51 AM

[up]Yeah, that is always a little annoying. I also personally dislike seeing pages with empty folders and entries such as that one. Should the empty stuff be hidden do you think or would that make the page a stub?

edited 25th May '17 5:19:01 AM by SebastianGray

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#26677: May 25th 2017 at 10:04:06 AM

It wouldn't really be a stub, but it wouldn't be much of a page. At the very least, the empty folders should probably be commented out for now.

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26678: May 25th 2017 at 10:25:22 AM

[up]Done.

In other 8th Edition news Orks

Orks are a tremendously fun faction to love in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. They bring a slight sense of levity to the grim darkness of endless war with their insane enthusiasm for battle and ability to thrive in a galaxy most factions are simply struggling to survive in – and all the while they remain ferociously menacing.

Orks have had their ups and downs on the tabletop over the years. They’ve often been seen as the army that was fun to play but that perhaps did not win too many games. Their most recent iteration in the current version of Warhammer 40,000 gives them quite a few tools and fun, themed army build options, but they have some weaknesses that can be difficult to overcome. Having nearly no invulnerable saves throughout their army but needing to get into melee to do the majority of their damage means they are at a massive disadvantage against armies with high durability. Units with lots of characters from different factions all providing bonuses to each other cause the most problems, and can leave Orks to be overwhelmed in close combat, where they’re meant to shine. As an Ork player, I certainly know this pain all too well.

In the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, this changes, and all I can say is praise be to Gork…or maybe Mork! One of the biggest changes for Orks is the way the new AP system impacts both their offence and defence. Units like Meganobz, who have a 2+ save (and now 3 Wounds!), will find themselves being able to soak hits from things that used to kill them in one shot and keep on killin’ thanks to the save they now get. A lascannon, for example, doesn’t bypass their armour entirely and they have decent odds of surviving, even if they fail their save.

But what about the basic grunt in the Ork army, you may be asking? What about da Boyz? You so rarely see Ork Boyz on the table these days, and an Ork Nob, often swinging last in combat with nothing but a lowly 6+ save to protect him, was not exactly a feared opponent in a challenge.

Boyz will get their save against most light weapons now, as a 6+ is not ignored by so many weapons as it once was. Also, as there are no more challenges in melee, a Nob will no longer be forced to focus all his attention on smashing just one foe. Excitingly, it won’t always be a no-brainer choice to take a power klaw, either. The Big Choppa is now quite an appealing choice thanks to a more scalable AP system, and the kombi-skorcha is positively mean!

Big Choppa: Range & Type - Melee; S +2; AP -1; D 2; Abilities - None

Choppa: Range & Type - Melee; S User; AP 0; D 1; Abilities - Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with the weapon.

Morale is not nearly as problematic for Orks as it was, either. The Boyz have multiple layers of morale defence built into their army. The best way to mitigate it is by having a Warboss within 3″ of a unit of Orks; he can simply knock a few of them senseless (D3, to be exact) to keep the rest of the Boyz in line and in the fight. Nobz squads also help to keep Orks from leggin’ it by rolling a D6 for each nearby Ork that tries to flee, and on the result of a 6, they do not. These are all in addition to the Mob Rule! which allows a unit of Orks to use a leadership value equal to their unit size or the leadership value of a nearby Ork unit. These are great for keeping big mobs of Boyz in the fight!

But that’s not all, folks! Orks, you will find, are all about layering bonuses onto the Boyz for force multiplication. I’ve listed a few of them so far, but there are many more. A Painboy gives nearby Ork Infantry and Biker units a 6+ save against wounds suffered. A Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field gives nearby Ork units a 5+ invulnerable save against shooting attacks. And by the way, you can take BOTH of these saves! There are many more bonuses available to you, depending on how you build your army, but my favourite is the Warboss’s WAAAGH! ability, which allows friendly Ork units within 6″ to charge even if they advanced. Combine this with the ‘Ere We Go special rule that allows Orks to re-roll failed charge rolls and holy smokes, you’ve got a fighting force to be feared!

There’s so much more to discuss but alas, I am running out of space. Ork players should be pumped, as so much of that classic melee mob Orky playstyle now pays off. Blow the dust off of your Killa Kans and Gorkanauts and get ready for a WAAAGHly good time (sorry, I couldn’t help myself!).

One last little tidbit though, before I go: the Ork Weirdboy is a fantastic choice in the new edition, and one of his powers, Da Jump, is particularly awesome. It allows an Ork Infantry unit within 6″ of the Weirdboy to be teleported to any point more than 9″ away from enemy units on the battlefield (and remember, no more scattering!). This makes for quite the nasty surprise when a mob of 30 Ork Boyz appears behind enemy lines!

edited 25th May '17 10:26:03 AM by SebastianGray

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#26681: May 26th 2017 at 6:58:15 AM

I was about to say "Where the hell is Russ's face in that armor?" but then I realized he's likely concealing it with the shield from Magnus's magic-tentacles.

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26682: May 26th 2017 at 7:27:21 AM

[up]That's his back. There is a 360 view on the page as well.

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26683: May 26th 2017 at 7:49:10 AM

Double post for today's 8th Edition Rules: Primaris Captains and Inceptors

Let’s talk Primaris Space Marines.

By now, unless you’ve been hiding under a rock on the far side on Luna, you’ve probably seen the awesome contents of the upcoming Dark Imperium box.

We’ve already seen the stats for the Intercessors, but they are just one of the new units. Today we take a look at a couple more.

Let’s start with the leader, the Captain in Gravis armour.

Space Marine Captains should be amongst the most feared warriors in the galaxy, but a lot of the time today, they are looked down on compared to other characters that can bring more utility to an army.

Not anymore!

Every Space Marines army is going to want one of these guys at its head. Like all the Space Marines’ greatest commanders, he’s great at combat in all forms, hitting up close and at range on a 2+. That Gravis armour brings some benefits too. While lacking some of the impenetrable defence against small arms fire that Terminator armour brings, it makes up for that with an increased Toughness, meaning even heavy weaponry will struggle to bring him down easily. He has 6 Wounds, which is pretty solid too, though Characters generally have more Wounds in the new Warhammer 40,000 – even a lascannon will be lucky to kill him in a single shot.

Maybe the main reason you bring this guy though is for the re-roll to hit he provides to those nearby. This ability is awesome on things like Tactical and Intercessor Squads, even better on Devastator Squads, and on plasma-toting Hellblasters? Well, we’ll just let you work that one out….

Next up, the Inceptor Squad, These guys are the Primaris Space Marines’ answer to a lot of things: they combine the speed of Assault Squads, the durability of units like Bikes and the ability to drop in from space mid-battle, AND they pack a fair combat punch as they make a charge. Oh, and those guns are basically hand held heavy bolters (albeit, with a much reduced range). We expect to see these guys in a lot of Space Marines armies very soon.

That’s just two of the new units in the Dark Imperium box.

edited 26th May '17 7:49:51 AM by SebastianGray

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#26684: May 26th 2017 at 12:55:51 PM

Okay, so Inceptors are Jump Infantry, not Jetpack Infantry, however they don't seem to be Assault Infantry at all, and instead use those bolters of theirs to plink at enemies from long range... Which makes the Hammer of Wrath-esque ability they have odd, as it assumes that you'd be using them for assault as well.

CountDorku Since: Jan, 2001
#26685: May 26th 2017 at 1:04:00 PM

[up] Since their guns are assault, presumably the idea is that you tear holes in the enemy with a hail of gunfire, then finish off the survivors with a charge.

MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#26686: May 26th 2017 at 4:45:30 PM

Reading through the Primaris previews, there seems to be a hint to Primaris... dreads?

What? It's early through the Indomitus Crusade, and there are ALREADY Primaris Marines getting placed into dreads? On what merit? Especially since they're all "new blood".

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#26687: May 26th 2017 at 4:59:58 PM

Maybe Primaris Dreads don't require being in a near-vegetative state from countless battles, and are instead a more conventional set of heavy armor/mechsuit that out-heavies terminators. They're already in for the tech-heresy of innovation; they may as well copy the better ideas of the Tau while they're at it. Besides, its not like they're being built at the rate of one per blue moon.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#26688: May 26th 2017 at 5:04:13 PM

So more a Dreadknight than a dreadnought?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#26689: May 26th 2017 at 5:55:15 PM

My guess is that rather than being created from the get-go as super-Astartes, Primaris Dreadnoughts would be made the same way regular Dreadnoughts are, i.e. from near-dead regular Astartes that have no hope of getting back to the battlefield otherwise, only the tech used in the Primaris version is vastly superior. The superlativeness is, of course, offset by the rarity of such pieces of supertech, as they take a lot more resources and time than normal Dreadnoughts do, so only the most superlatively skilled/talented Astartes get the honor of being put into such ultra-warmachines.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26691: May 27th 2017 at 9:42:25 AM

Double post for 8th Edition stuff.

Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought

Genestealer Cults

Genestealer Cults are both a new and old faction. They’ve got their roots way back in the mists of Warhammer 40,000 history but have recently made their triumphant return to the game. Genestealer Cults were largely defined in their play style through their very cool and characterful Cult Ambush special rule. That is still true in the new Warhammer 40,000 as well. Cult Ambush allows you to place Genestealer Cults units into reserves and then enter the game through a variety of means determined by a D6 chart. These range in effect from coming on to a table edge to being able to appear anywhere on the table more than 9” away from any enemy units but being able to move as well, allowing you to get extremely close to enemy units to shoot and then charge them as well. For units like Genestealers or Aberrants armed with power picks and rending claws, this can be punishing!

Speaking of Genestealers, if you thought they were deadly in the Tyranid army, they are even more flexible with Genestealer Cults due to the Cult Ambush rule as stated above. Combined with the Patriarch, they hit just as hard as the Broodlord and Genestealers do with Tyranids, but with Genestealer Cults, the Patriarch also allows nearby units to ignore morale, and he benefits from the Unquestioning Loyalty special rule which all Genestealer Cults Characters posses. This allows them to avoid taking a wound on a 4+ as a minion sacrifices its life and jumps in front of the attack. This makes these Characters extremely durable and even helps them survive things like Sniper fire.

Another nasty trick the Genestealer Cults have is their Mass Hypnosis psychic power, which prevents an enemy unit from firing Overwatch, makes them strike last in combat (even if they charged) AND gives them -1 to hit. Ouch! That leaves an enemy unit in a very compromised position as the minions of the Four-armed Emperor emerge from ambush and then run them through in melee.

One of my favourite aspects of the Genestealer Cults, though, is their ability to form their army using both their own faction, Tyranids and Astra Militarum, too. Huzzah! Due to the way that allies worked in the previous edition, making an army that mixed Genestealer Cult units and Astra Militarum wasn’t always straightforward. These are, of course, not “real” Astra Militarum, but devoted followers of the Cult who have turned from the Emperor’s light and betrayed their fellow man. The way it works in the new Warhammer 40,000 is really fun. You can take one Astra Militarum Detachment for each Genestealer Cults Detachment in your Battle-forged army. They each need to be entirely comprised of units with their respective keyword, but this allows incredible amounts of diversity in your army that is also quite characterful.

But you won’t always need to sneak into the Imperial motor pool to hijack their vehicles; the Genestealer Cults have access to some fantastic mechanised war machines of their own. The Goliath Rockgrinder is one of my favourites.

For armament, I prefer the Clearance Incinerator, as it automatically hits its target D6 times up to 12” out and, of course, you have to take the Cache of Demolition Charges! While you can only fire this weapon if a unit is embarked upon it (as they need to chuck them out!) and it is short ranged at 6”, boy does it pack a punch! D6 shots, Strength 8, AP -3 and D3 damage per hit. That’s no joke. If anything survives that, you can ram them with the Drilldozer in melee for a possible 6+D3 Strength 8 attacks with an AP of -2 and D3 damage per hit.

While there is loads more to cover, we are out of time for today. Genestealer Cults have a unique playstyle in the new Warhammer 40,000 that will be both fun for the general commanding the army and tactically challenging for the player on the other side of the table.

edited 27th May '17 9:43:33 AM by SebastianGray

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#26692: May 27th 2017 at 10:28:35 AM

Unfortunate news everyone:

Alan Bligh, esteemed GW writer of much Deathwatch fluff, has lost the ultimate battle against cancer.

edited 27th May '17 10:29:04 AM by BlackSunNocturne

BlackSunNocturne Since: Aug, 2013
#26693: May 27th 2017 at 2:54:00 PM

Double post, but I dont think this was posted:

Leviathan Dreadnoughts are good in 8th, and that post is about a CHAOS Leviathan Dreadnought.

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26694: May 28th 2017 at 12:03:17 AM

Apparently 30K is sticking with 7th Edition and will have its own rulebook.

I wish I could collect and play 30K but I have far too many drains on my bank account as it is.sad

googlebot Herald of Endless Research. from The misty Albion Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Herald of Endless Research.
#26695: May 29th 2017 at 5:32:00 AM

Leakėd cover of one of next books after Gathering Storm series.

Squeeee! I'm an Alpha Legion fan.

edited 29th May '17 6:25:29 AM by googlebot

“You can’t be an important and life-changing presence for some people without also being a joke and embarrassment to others.” -Mark Manson.
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#26696: May 29th 2017 at 7:56:26 AM

Sisters of Battle vs Alpha Legion, eh?

MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#26697: May 29th 2017 at 6:06:41 PM

I'm hoping for either plastic Death Korps or hitting the lottery.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#26698: May 30th 2017 at 12:57:05 AM

I want plastic Elysians so I can use those flashy bullpup lasguns to make a France-themed regiment.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26699: May 30th 2017 at 1:59:08 AM

8th Edition Faction Focus: Space Marines

They know no fear and are the Angels of Death, serving as the Emperor’s mailed fist, delivering death to the enemies of mankind. They are the most iconic faction in Warhammer 40000: Space Marines. While considered by many in the Imperium to be heroes, they are undeniably monsters to their enemies. The most popular faction in the Warhammer 40,000 universe is coming back with reinforcements, the new Primaris Space Marines.

Armies of the Adeptus Astartes are currently mostly played two ways. One is the Battle Company play style which consists of lots of Space Marines, grav cannons and (often free) vehicles. All told, it can often make them feel like a bit of a horde army. The other way is to pair them up with Space Wolves and Dark Angels to combine the numerous overlapping Universal Special Rules from Characters into a single, powerful unit.

In the new edition of Warhammer 40,000, Space Marine players will have a wealth of options for how they assemble their force. While this may mean that the builds that are currently most popular may no longer be the most efficient, it means that you can look again at the massive range of Space Marine units available, and know that all of them can find a place in your army.

Let’s start with the Centurions since these guys have been very popular since their release. They get the Centurion missile launcher, which is D3 shots at Strength 8, AP -2, which do D3 damage. They can also take two lascannons. which means these guys are terrifying against high Toughness, high Wound models. Now if hordes are what you fear, don’t worry, they can still take two heavy bolters and hurricane bolters, dishing out loads of shots every turn. These models will be extremely hard to kill with their 2+ save and 3 Wounds. And, be sure to keep an Apothecary nearby to keep these guys alive and kicking.

But, what about the question everyone has on their minds? What about grav cannons? The weapons that single-handedly changed the game in the current Warhammer 40,000? Well, I am very happy to say that grav weapons are still good, but have been mercifully toned down to a much more reasonable weapon. They now no longer relegate so many units in the game to being relatively poor choices, but they still pack a nasty punch for those of you that have these models in your collections.

Next up, let’s talk a bit about Predators. Predators haven’t been seeing much play in quite a long while. As noted above, with the abundance of grav weapons on the tables, being a vehicle was a hindrance. Luckily that is no longer the case. Predators are powerful, able to carry 4 lascannons into battle while being Toughness 7 with 11 Wounds – this vehicle is now a very scary unit. The Predator will be in your backfield raining death upon transports and elite units alike. Or, load them up with the Predator autocannon and heavy bolters, or a mix of any of those choices, as you can fire every weapon at a different target! Make sure to get these bad boys a new paint job in honour of the new edition and make some room in those army cases, cause Predators are back!

How about we talk a little bit about the famous Primarch that just came back, Roboute Guilliman? We’ve all seen his stats and he looks like a beast with his 9 Wounds and 6 Attacks. His gun also is good, being Rapid Fire 3, giving him 6 shots at half range. It is also Strength 6, AP -1 and does 2 Damage per shot – essentially an auto cannon with more shots on a platform that hits on 2s and is hard as nails to kill. He also wields the Emperor’s own sword which gives him +2 Strength and slices up enemy armour with AP -4 and 3 Damage per swing. Plus on the wound roll of a 6+, the weapon does an additional D3 mortal wounds…ouch! This guy can kill most things in the game by himself.

His new armor is pretty awesome as well, giving him a 3+ invulnerable save and allowing him to get back up of a 4+ the first time he dies. Good luck killing Roboute. He cannot have anything else going for him could he? Well, he also gives all Ultramarines within 6” of him the ability to re-roll hits and wounds. That is magnificently powerful. Guilliman is a warrior straight out of legend and will be seen on many a tabletop.

Lastly, let’s talk about the iconic Space Marine Dreadnoughts. These machines, unfortunately, have been outpaced by other units for a while now, but that is all about to change. Dreadnoughts in the new edition are Toughness 7 with 8 Wounds, which makes them a lot more resilient than before. They also have 4 Attacks that are Strength 12, AP -3 and 3 Damage each, which will put a serious hurt on any target. Their heavy flamer is excellent for overwatch and killing hordes, and the heavy weapons they can take make them scary at range as well. I anticipate a lot of twin lascannon equipped Dreadnoughts in the near (far?) future.

Dreadnaughts are no longer pushovers, and they can be scary in close combat and in shooting. Like all vehicles, they no longer have to worry about the punishing damage table rendering them worthless due to immobilisation, etc. It is a good day to be a Dreadnought…you know, despite having to be horribly injured and stuck in a walking sarcophagus.

Overall Space Marines are a very versatile army and will play more closely to their lore without the free points and character bombs. I hope you are all ready to retake the galaxy for mankind!

SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#26700: May 30th 2017 at 10:55:18 AM

Double Post for 8th Edition army construction

There are as many ways to go about this as there are Warhammer 40,000 players out there; some of you will pick you army based on your favourite models, some based on a particularly inspiring bit of lore or background you’ve read, and some because you like the way certain units behave on the battlefield. For most of us, it’s a bit of all of the above.

Choosing an army in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000 can be as simple or as easy as you like. At the most basic level, you can just put whatever models you have in your collection on the table and get rolling – this is the very essence of open play.

For a little more balance and structure, you can use Power Levels. These can be found on the datasheets of every unit and give a rough approximation of its relative effectiveness. Power Levels are ideal for narrative play and allow you to very quickly work out which force is more powerful so you can either add or take away a few units to balance it or play a mission that calls for forces of different sizes (like a siege or a glorious last stand).

The final mechanism for selecting an army is to use points, most commonly associated with matched play. These will be familiar to anyone who plays the game today and are designed to balance your force for use in the 12 Eternal War and Maelstrom of War missions.

While Power Levels are purposefully an approximation of a unit’s effectiveness, points are, if anything, more granular than they have ever been, with each individual item costing a certain amount.

The best way to show this is with a quick example. We’ve used a Drukhari force, lead by an Archon (classic).

This army is 1000 points and is Battle-forged using the Patrol Detachment. It is typical of what you might expect from an army of this size.

We have an HQ choice, a mix of units kitted out to deal with both Infantry and Vehicles, Transports and a Flyer to back them up. The points for each model, gun and item of equipment add up to give the army’s total cost in points.

One thing you’ll probably notice is that vehicles generally tend to cost more points in this edition. Though you’ll find that their increased flexibility and durability means that they are certainly well worth taking. (This is especially true of Drukhari ones, which can now not only ram enemy units but fly out of combat and still shoot you!)

Another thing you’ll likely see much more of is vehicles and squads with mixed weapons. So, in this case, those splinter rifles the Kabalites are carrying can be targeting squishy infantry targets while the heavier guns in the squad can hunt larger prey. It means you might not need dedicated anti-infantry or armour units as much if you’ve spread that killing power around your army.

This army is a fairly typical Drukhari force, but the new edition opens up a whole range of new options. Previously, a lot of the more extreme army builds were only available to certain armies through formations, but now anyone can use them! There are Detachments available that focus on each of the nine battlefields roles, which gives you loads of options for building a force, even within a Battle-forged list.

Ever fancy a whole army of tanks? How about a Penitent Engine crusade? Or an entire swarm of flying Tyranid monsters? Or an army of speed-mad Ork bikers and buggies?

They all sound awesome.

The options are endless, the choice is yours.


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