El Goonish Shive

One assumes it's somehow related to how he's planning to get his physical form back, but no, there hasn't been any explanation for that.

edited 13th Feb '17 7:55:19 PM by Gilphon

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

Jesus I forgot how long that damn party arc took.

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"At some point, Kaoli will be visiting this universe, or I'll be visiting hers..." -Ellen, almost 10 goddamned years ago

Hands up anyone who didn't even remember who Kaoli is.

Actually. When was the last time Ellen's other life was mentioned, even just in passing?

edited 13th Feb '17 8:47:43 PM by billybobfred

she her hers hOI!!! i'm tempe

The less Ellen's other life is mentioned, the better. That plot point always bugged me. It was basically just a quick deus ex machina to fast-track her through her Character Development.

In the process depriving us of a potential trans character. Ellen is literally a male character in a female body, but courtesy of a few quick narrative shrugs, she is entirely 100% onboard with being female now and her origin as Elliot is now only ever referenced in the context of why she has such great insight into his character, and not in any way that enhances her own.

edited 13th Feb '17 8:51:47 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

I recall it being referred to relatively recently- but then as more of 'it's an additional reason for Ellen to be fucked up when it comes to identity issues' than 'a DEM fix to Ellen's identity issues.'

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."

Though retconning Elliot as agender from the beginning, could also help explain why Ellen is fine with being a woman.

So Tedd feels like either sex, depending on the moment, while Elliot/Ellen feel like neither.

Nah. Remember his mentalities being represented as different genders? Elliot's Bigender.

Also in my recent memory, last time Ellen's past life was brought up was when she was talking about how she's technically not close to this universe's Tedd, circa the double date arc.

edited 14th Feb '17 6:32:37 AM by MrAHR

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I just have a bit of Fridge Logic about the current development for Tedd...

Did he suddenly lose access to the TF Gun?

I mean, it was pretty solidly established by Edward that it is not magic. Even if magic suddenly goes poof, unless there's some behind-the-scenes reason otherwise, that should still work. And Tedd can program various durations into it - even if he can't actually build a "permanent" duration, he can program one that's effectively so (say, 200 years).

It was even pointed out during that MTG arc that this was Tedd's third or fourth (by his own count) method he had to transform his body to that of a different sex. Even if he loses his mark right this second, does that really stick him in a given sex? I know this whole plot line is a kick in the gut for his dreams about magic, but I don't see how this would affect his ability to change his sex in accordance to his gender preference in a given moment.

Side note: I nearly wondered if anyone else would notice Tedd's voice in a different register, but given how non-social Tedd is, it occurs to me that Sarah probably would be the only other person to notice. I just hope that the stupid "I have a cold" excuse I've seen in other Gender Bender works isn't trotted out - everyone I know has their voice go into a deeper register (my own goes into full vocal fry register when I'm sick); I never see how "voice suddenly higher" gets explained away with that excuse.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

The TF Gun is only temporary. Same with his watches. Assuming they'll even be able to function without the ambient magic in Moperville, Tedd would still revert to his default state after a set period of time.

The other gender-changing effects we've seen throughout the series are more like glamours, while Tedd's mark is actually a magic sex-change.

edited 14th Feb '17 7:42:22 AM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Well, the watches run on magic, so those are almost definitely out if magic changes the rules. So I'm not worried about them.

I don't know if the TF Gun has a hard-and-fast limit on duration of transformations. All of the transformations shown have been, but I thought the suggestion was that Tedd was only at worst mildly sociopathic (see his desire to turn Tony into a girl for a month) and thus wouldn't make a transformation lasting longer than a month unless specifically requested for one. I don't think there was ever a limitation outside of Tedd that was placed on the duration of a transformation.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

A month is the longest duration, except in a certain circumstance.

Also, Tedd only wanted to transform Tony for a day, not a month.

edited 14th Feb '17 10:24:09 AM by Daremo

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

Ahhh the nonsensical exposition is almost nostalgic.

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Nostalgic?

It still happens, doesn't it?

Who was it that commented on Shive's magic being one of the few that actively resists being studied but he still studies the hell out of it?

Well sure, but there's been a lot of improvement since this weird segue of PREGNANCY he wrote

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I'll not say it to him again but lemme reiterate-

Totally gonna snap one day and just so much porn.

That was me.

Magic and science are often depicted as diametrically opposed to each other, a depiction that almost always falls apart under scrutiny due to the fact that magic is a force while science is a process of understanding. A wizard is a scientist. It's just that his area of study is a fantastic force that doesn't exist in this world.

If you can incite an incantation, chuck a pile of bat guano, and have it turn into a fireball, that is science. It's not any scientific process that exists in our world, but it is repeatable and provable. It can be studied and understood. By definition, for spells to even exist, it must be possible to scientifically examine magic.

Conversely, if magic truly could not be studied scientifically, there would be no wizards. You cannot have spellcasters in a world where a process of magic cannot be reliably repeated. If Avada Kedavra only sometimes killed people and other times created kittens, did nothing whatsoever, or turned its caster into a newt, then Voldemort would be a complete joke. Magic almost always only has value because it can be subjected to the same basic procedures of science.

With the will of magic actively avoiding being understood, Shive has created one of the few magic systems in fiction that truly cannot be scientifically interpreted - because to do so will invoke an immediate rule change. As such, it is ironic that he dedicates so much more time to explaining it than writers with more scientifically-feasible systems of magic do.

edited 14th Feb '17 1:33:50 PM by TobiasDrake

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Question: Would if magic was mostly reliable?

Like, most of the time Avada Kedavra killed people but for reasons that defied understanding sometimes created a kitten?

Like, it's a one time out of a lot thing?

The thing is that many people and works say science vs. magic when they really mean technology vs. magic. It's naturally preferable to me when a show recognizes the difference. For example, I've always liked how Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura handled magick (I'm going to copy them and spell it with a "k" because that game is super Victorian fancy like that).

Specifically, usage of magick leaves limited amounts of magick radiation (the bigger the spell, the greater the leftovers), which creates random small twists in the laws of physics. These are mostly things that your average person would not notice, but play merry hell with precision machinery and so on, causing them to break down - sometimes spectacularly - sooner or later. The magickal radiation is stated in lore to be measurable, so both are technically sciences, but simply cannot co-exist. It's also implied that in the distant past, people had worked out how to eliminate this problem and have magick and machinery work together, but that knowledge is mostly lost.

Of course, Shive did the reverse, with Magitek being reasonable...as long as only a select few know anything about it.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)

Comic 2312

A not wholly unreasonable extrapolation based on available data, but still totally unsupported.

NP 578

To trust or not to trust...

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.

The Wiz Biz series establishes that this was how magic was before the protagonist showed up. The more complex magic got, the more the variables of the world affected it. So some very simple, and relatively ineffective, spells worked consistently any time you did a hand gesture, or said a certain word. But something like summoning a portal to another world depending on phase of the moon, alignment of the furniture of the room, etc. The protagonist's hack of the system involved chaining the simpler spells together to make more complex ones via programming.

Oh look, a logical reasoning of "this shit is unintuitive"

One where the reader has no reason to assume it will change, but it makes sense the character will freak out even without entire justification.

edited 15th Feb '17 5:15:15 AM by MrAHR

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The guy has justification to freak out about it: He's got a lot more at stake about it than you, so getting paranoid about it makes sense.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

... hence why I said "it makes sense" ? The justification I am referring to is the logical world building.

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First, I'm half-amazed that Shive remembered to address the TF Gun.

Speaking of, I had forgotten that a month was listed as the maximum duration... that said, even presuming that cannot be expanded in any form in the future, that's still effectively "at will" for Tedd. But I suppose the comments he made in today's strip cover that as well.

I do get why Tedd is acting this way - he's panicking because he realizes that one method of doing what he wants might go, all of them might go. It's not an uncommon reaction - it's the so-called "floor drops out from under you" reaction. Even if everything else is anchored, you suddenly can't be sure if anything else will stay that way. So whatever else is said, it makes sense that Tedd is reacting that way.

That said, the "gun might not work on humans anymore" reaction seems like an overreaction. Nobody said anything about the Will of Magic changing humans or technology - it's just working on magic itself. The only reason I could see the Will of Magic changing how the TF Gun works on humans would be if said Will was just a Jerkass (which I guess can't be totally discounted, but that feels like it'd be a bit of a Diabolus ex Machina).

Of course, the "someone else might take the gun away" bit seems much more realistic. It's always been handwaved just what's used to make the TF Gun, but we can reasonably assume that the parts are, at the very least, not cheap and/or not easily available (if they were cheap and easily available, Sister I never would have happened). If at least one part for it can only realistically be obtained via Edward Verres' governmental connections (given that it's uryuom tech, a very reasonable assumption), it's possible others might use those connections to trace the parts to Tedd and attempt to confiscate the parts and anything made with them (which may or may not be done via legal means; secret conspiracies and all that). And presuming the parts only being available via governmental connections, Tedd might not be able to just get more easily.

Heck, I can even produce a mundane way he could lose his tech - we already know (from Sister I) that the tech isn't good forever, no repairs - Phlebotinum Breakdown is a known possibility. Sooner or later, the TF Gun will break down. Tedd's dad used to get him the parts, but if he suddenly can't anymore (maybe he doesn't have the connections via his new position, or maybe a necessary part was just plain ol' discontinued), Tedd can't fix his stuff. Tedd hasn't even gotten to this point in his panic state at the moment, but that seems like the most likely scenario in which he loses the TF Gun as well.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

TBH the fact that he's just. allowed to keep the gun at all. is really weird.

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