troperville

tools

toys


main index

Narrative

Genre

Media

Topical Tropes

Other Categories

TV Tropes Org
random
This is a "Wild Mass Guess" entry, where we pull out all the sanity stops on theorizing. The regular entry on this topic is elsewhere. Please see this programme note.
October Daye
Eira Rosynhwyr was/is Evening Winterrose, or someone very closely connected to her (as in, closer than just the Firstborn of Evening's species)
  • The relationships between the Dochas and Daoine Sidhe are both very close (related powers, appearance, etc) and very far (Firstborn of Titania, Last Among the First), which might help explain why Evening was both so hard and so close to October.
  • Pretty much everything in Rosemary and Rue, up to and including throwaway characters, has become massively important. So I'm just waiting for Simon Torquil and Evening to rear their heads again.
  • The Luidaeg refers to someone deciding to "prune the Winterrose" - doesn't sound like a permanent death, plus indicates the Firstborn's habit of taking titles instead of names. The Luidaeg also says she can't break the Winterrose's curse, says she was always a nasty bitch, and refers to her in the present tense.
  • Welsh-to-English translation: Eira = snow, Rhosyn = rose and Hwyr = late or evening. Looking conclusive...
  • One possible snag- Toby rode Evening's blood, and didn't mention anything particularly out of the ordinary about it aside from how horrible her death was (since it involved iron). True, this was before Toby got her blood rebalanced, but the blood of the firstborn is seriously powerful stuff. Having just reread the scene, there's no foreshadowing about her blood being any more potent than expected.
  • In Rosemary and Rue Toby thinks somebody — she assumes Devin— has edited Evening's blood memory. If Evening is Eira and has extra-special Firstborn powers, Evening could have edited that blood memory herself, which would explain Toby not noticing things that aren't ordinary about the blood.
  • Confirmed in The Winter Long. She faked her death via a combination of Firstborn powers and bribing the nighthaunts.

Eira Rosynhwyr was the one to betray the Roane
  • Since "Never Shines the Sun" indicates that the Luidaeg still loves Amy at the time of October's birth, it seems more possible that someone else, like Eira, is responsible.
  • Confirmed in The Winter Long

Amandine's fairy husband is Simon Torquill

  • It would explain why Oleander hated her so much. Also there aren't many single male fae in the cast old enough the fit the role.
  • Confirmed in The Winter Long

Evening was Toby's grand-aunt, or a relative of some kind.
Why else would the queen declare a changeling the Countess of Goldengreen, as seen in the preview for Late Eclipses?
  • Because Toby did a great service in killing the shit out of Blind Michael and keeping him from kidnapping any more kids during An Artificial Night?
  • And she wanted to set Toby up for a future execution in Late Eclipses by getting her out of Sylvester's protection, etc.
  • In The Winter Long she is revealed to be a Firstborn so she counts as an aunt

Quentin is a close relative of King Aethlin Sollys and Queen - the fae rulers of all of North and South America. Either a son or maybe a nephew.
Their knowe is in Canada (Toronto, I believe) and Quentin's accent (near Edmonton?) is mentioned a few times in the first two books. Granted Canada is Really Big, but they're the only fae in the series that are from Canada. The unusual aspects of Quentin's fostering situation are commented on several times - that it's blind fostering, that he's staying at Shadowed Hills until he's 21, etc. One reason for this could be that he's the relative of somebody Really Important and they don't want that affecting his training as a knight.
  • Possibly hinted at when he brings news that they've pardoned Toby for killing Blind Michael, removing the local queen's last excuse to execute her.
  • Confirmed as of Chimes at Midnight: Quentin Sollys, Crown Prince


One Salt Sea (Book 5) will feature the Luidaeg heavily.
This is just kind of out there, but she is the SEA witch and, well, duh. Something seemed to be odd about her at the end of Late Eclipses when Toby asked if she was okay.
  • Confirmed.


Before the end of the series, Toby will investigate the disappearance of Oberon and his queens, Maeve and Titania.
She is the hero who finds things. And they keep talking about it. And McGuire already set up this kind of long-foreshadowed ancient mystery bursting into contemporary life with Blind Michael. (Just wanted to get this down so when it happens I can totally point to it and say: Called it!)
  • And what she finds on this quest will destroy/drastically change Faerie, as described in Oleander's dying words.
  • "Never Shines the Sun" hints that the Luidaeg's plans for Toby (which she references in Chimes at Midnight) involve trying to defeat Eira Rosynhwyr (Firstborn of the Daoine Sidhe). It doesn't seem directly connected to the disappearance of Oberon, Titania, and Maeve...but that doesn't mean it isn't.
    • There also seems to have been some sort of prophecy about one of Amandine's line....and since we know Amandine got traumatized about something in Faerie and it's been hinted that she had other children, I'm assuming there's a prophecy that Eira is to be killed by a Dochas Sidhe and she offed all of Amandine's other kids in the past to prevent it. This would have led to Amandine's current trauma and wanting to make Toby be a human so she would duck the prophecy, etc.
  • The Winter Long has the Luidaeg call on her mother, Maeve, and receive magical assistance from her, indicating that at least one of the Lord and Ladies can and will still have contact with the world.


Amandine is the sister who betrayed the Luidaeg's roane children.
The Luidaeg brought Toby along with her to deliver her warning to Elizabeth Ryan, head of the selkies, and pointed out who Toby had been lovers with and who her mother is right before she did it. That's probably significant somehow. "They would keep the magic alive until I could find a way to make things right." Possibly Toby is related to the reason why the Luidaeg gave them a year before she does...whatever it is. Maybe Toby's saving of sea fae helped this too? Also, Mary refers to Amandine as "the liar." Since she's one of the few remaining roane left, she'd have good reason to know that first hand.
  • And this will lead to some kind of showdown between Toby and the Luidaeg. They both keep saying the Luidaeg will kill Toby, but it never seriously looks like happening. And we know the Luidaeg is capable of loving and hating the same person - witness her feelings towards the Selkies. Also, Toby's been told to beware "the Lady of the Lake", and the Luidaeg is a water witch (mostly called the "sea witch", but Toby sees her hanging around moors and bogs).
    • In fact, the Luidaeg is the Lady of the Lake, as she tells Toby in The Winter Long that one of her past names is Vivienne, one of the many names of the Lady (which is actually just a misspelling/scribing of "Nimue," according to some scholars).
  • I assumed that the Luidaeg brought Toby along and mentioned Toby's parentage because she wants Toby to be the one who brings the Roane back, through her blood-changing powers.
  • jossed Eira Rosynhwyr/Evening Winterrose is the culprit.


Toby is not an only child.

Oleander talks about the self-righteous disgust of Amandine's children, plus the Luidaeg says Toby's the last one who can be Amandine's heir, not the only one.
  • Oleander's words suggest she might've gone up against the others before Toby (and probably won)
  • Amandine's unorthodox approach to childrearing was because she's tried a bunch of nicer methods already and lost all her previous kids. Losing Toby to Simon and Oleander (like she lost all the others to them?) drove her crazy.
  • One of Toby's half-siblings might show up later
  • In Ashes of Honor, Li Qin thinks she's read about the Dochas Sidhe in a book somewhere, which would imply that they're a race consisting of more than just Amandine and Toby.
  • In the "Never Shines the Sun," the short story attached to Chimes of Midnight, the Luidaeg mentions seeing other Dóchas Sidhe, and how October bucks the trend of them being blonde, as well as how she's been waiting for a child of Amandine's line for a specific reason.
  • Confirmed in The Winter Long. Toby has a half sister named August. Her father is Simon and her fate after the earthquakes is "unknown but not dead"

The identity of the Luidaeg

There doesn't seem to be a mythological figure called the Luidaeg, which is unusual for this series. Even if the author takes some liberties with who the Daoine Sidhe or Tuatha de Dannan actually were in mythology, she tends to use names of genuine mythological figures. My guess is that she'll turn out to be a Celtic goddess whose name can be anglicised to 'Annie' - it's an alias she's gone by more than once. Plus, when Toby tastes her blood, she sees Black Annis (Danu) and Gentle Annie (Anann of the Morrigan) as the Luidaeg's closest sisters. Aine is a possibility.
  • Celtic mythology being complicated and occasionally contradictory (especially if you don't understand Welsh and Gaelic grammar), the author might houserule that Anann and Gentle Annie were different beings, and the Luidaeg might be Anann.
  • Fand is a possiblity - an early Irish sea goddess
  • Not to be confused with Fland, a lake goddess who liked drowing people. Could be linked to the comment above about the Lady of the Lake.
  • If you spell it differently, It seems the "luideag" is a mythical figure after all: "Squalid in appearance as she was evil, the luideag haunted several pools on the Isle of Skye, especially the Lochan of the Black Trout."
    • Well, that Josses pretty much everything I've guessed, but it's really satisfying to get an answer. It was driving me up the wall. (I guess the difference in spelling defeated my Google-Fu.) Thanks! Interestingly, the description of her haunting pools still leaves the possibility that the Luidaeg is the Lady of the Lake Toby has been told to beware.
  • In Chimes at Midnight it's revealed that her real name is Antigone of Albany, the first child of Maeve and Oberon.
    • And she's Scottish, which works with the Luideag above!


Riordan's colony is going to lead to Deep Faerie being reopened.
Oberon kicked everyone out of deep Faerie a long, long time ago, and those lands have been empty ever since. However, as of Ashes of Honor, Annwn has been recolonized, and there's no way for Riordan and her people to get back out. Considering what Tybalt said about the land reacting to people, much as a knowe does, and what the Luidaeg said about the Heart of Faerie being lonely... it's possible that the Annwn colony is either going to have a destabilising effect on Faerie, which might require other people to find a way in after them to fix things.


October's future involvement with the Selkies.
  • Given how the Luidaeg seemed to be hinting to Liz that October would be involved with whatever she's laying down in a year.... I am guessing Toby's blood-changing powers will be required to make all of the Selkies with skins into full blown Roane.
  • On the other hand: The Selkie ultimatum goes down in book time around July 2011. Ashes of Honor takes place in June 2012 (right before deadline), but Chimes at Midnight takes place in August 2012, after the year is officially up. (And then the next book is titled The Winter Long, implying it takes place in winter/at least several months later than that.) If Toby hasn't been called in about the selkie ultimatum yet...is she going to be? And what is going on with that, anyway?!

Amandine's Mother was a human
  • Since the Dochas Sidhe's trick is to mess with the balance of blood she could have just made herself pure fairy
  • It would also explain a possible reason why Eira hates her so much: Eira hates changelings like it's going out of style
  • And why the Dochas Sidhe are only considered the child of Oberon: in Faerie politics humans mean so little that marrying a human while being married to a fairy doesn't mean anything.
  • Amandine's also one of the only purebloods shown to be rather comfortable living in humanity.

Night WatchWMG/LiteratureOdd Thomas

random
TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy
15378
22