troperville

tools

toys


main index

Narrative

Genre

Media

Topical Tropes

Other Categories

TV Tropes Org
random
This is a "Wild Mass Guess" entry, where we pull out all the sanity stops on theorizing. The regular entry on this topic is elsewhere. Please see this programme note.
Fallen London
    Jossed 
Dr Schlomo is Mr Apples.
This blog post mentions that Mr Apples is actually already in the game, it's just not apparent that it's him. Dr Schlomo is surprisingly knowledgeable about the deepest secrets of the Neath: the Correspondence and the recurring dreams. How could a mere human know so much? The answer: he isn't. He's a Master of the Bazaar who's taken up a human guise. For what purpose is uncertain, but he seems to be fairly benevolent.
  • "Sigmund Freud (German pronunciation: [ˈziːkmʊnt ˈfʁɔʏt]), born Sigismund Schlomo Freud" ... (from the Wikipedia article)
    • Ohhhh. Didn't know that. So he's one of the first psychologists? That's...interesting, and it makes a lot of sense too.

Dr Schlomo is immortal.
Dr Schlomo has, somehow, bought and drunk Hesperidian Cider. He is now has eternal youth, and the reason he knows so much is simply because he's had multiple lifetimes to study the workings of the Bazaar. It's possible that he's even from the First City.

Jack-of-Smiles' Body Surf is powered by the Correspondence.
This blog post mentions that the answer to the mystery of Jack is coming soon. What else is coming soon? New Watchful content that will continue the Scholar of the Correspondence storyline. There has already been an interesting opportunity card about Dr Schlomo that reveals the good doctor believes the Correspondence to be a Language of Magic that turns the speaker into a Reality Warper. These two things happening so closely together are unlikely to be a coincidence.

The Duchess is Cleopatra.
The early facts of the Duchess's story more or less fit the story of Cleopatra and the fall of Alexandria to Rome - the lost city, the lover, the serpent. Further content added at the time of the new economy dashed this theory - the Affable Monsignor claims that she long predates Anthony, and the Dean of Neocartography claims that the Second City had too few temples to be Alexandria - hinting that it must have been the capital of the monotheist heresy, Amarna.

    Confirmed 
The price paid for London was the Consort's life.
He was suffering from Typhoid before the Fall, and miraculously recovered as soon as he came down. But the real clincher? When performing a choral requiem for the Empress in the Court, she stares at the Consort and a tear rolls down her cheek.
  • Agreed. The Duchess also will tell you during a particular storyline that the Bazaar runs on love stories and that three cities ago, the Cantigaster was her husband. and she made a bargain similar to the one the Empress made.
    • Also the new Heart's Desire content reveals that the Manager of the Royal Bethlehem Hotel was the King of the First City, and that he made a similar deal when his lover, who is now the King with a Hundred Hearts, was dying of fits.. So yes, it seems that all the cities were sold in exchange for a lover's life.

Tragic Love Stories will be a high-level Nostalgia item.

Mr Apples is Jesus.
According to the sidebars, he deals in "food, wood and immortality". Jesus was the son of a carpenter, and was known for producing food (specifically, loaves and fishes), and the immortality bit is self-explanatory. He's presumably responsible for the Hesperidean Cider in the Bazaar, the description of which ("WHOSO THIRSTETH AND DRINKETH OF THIS, SO SHALL HE NEVER DIE") reads a lot like John 3:16 ("whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life"). And he's a friend of Mr Veils, who governs prostitutes (Mary Magdalene).
  • Alternatively, Mr Eaten is Jesus. There are 13 other Masters revealed so far — enough for the 12 disciples and Mary Magdelene. Jesus is also regularly eaten at Mass. And, of course, something terrible happened to Mr Eaten...

The Starveling Cat knows things that catkind was not meant to know.
It has seen all the secrets of the Fallen Cities. It knows Mr Eaten's name and a good deal more about him besides. Its Unaccountably Peckish score is consequently mammothian.
  • I have found evidence for this: one of the sidebars says "The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat! Jumped down the well for a good long chat!" If what's in the well isn't Mr Eaten (and it's strongly implied that it is), then it's something catkind certainly was not meant to know. I'd say this is practically canon. Oh, and if its Unaccountably Peckish score is mammothian, then that explains why it's constantly trying to eat things.

The Starveling Cat ate Neath-snow.
Possibly connected to the above. One of the sidebars talks about the story of a man who cooked a pan of Neath-snow, being told that he would get white glim for his trouble. Instead, he got strange white goo. His cats tasted it when he left it unattended. One of them died outright, and it does not say what happened to the other one — only that something so terrible happened to it that the man locked it in his cellar and says he does not imagine he will let it out, ever. While saying that that cat is the Starveling Cat may be a bit of a stretch, perhaps it's a roundabout way of showing that a similar fate befell it? Perhaps the reason the cat had to be locked up was because it went mad from the revelation.

We will be able to return to the surface late in the game.
Since there is an inordinately expensive item which appears to have no purpose other than to allow players back to the surface if they die in Fallen London, this seems rather obvious. That, or we'll need to give someone else a Hesperidean Cider, possibly in a new quest.
  • Jossed, thanks to the financial efforts of a Female player named 'Nite Brite', the effects of the Cider have been reviled to be... a supper-strong Wounds tonic and a unique Dream status about the Garden.

What's in the well?
You know, the thing that's Nightmare Fuel incarnate. Post your theories here, tropers.
  • There aren't many hints for it, but I personally believe it's Mr Eaten himself. Though if that's where he is, it begs the question of what's NORTH...something even worse, perhaps? The Death By Water storyline will not end well...
  • Care for spoilers, then? During the Number portion of Seeking Mr Eaten's name, it's implied that Mr Eaten was repeatedly stabbed and then drowned in a well. On Mutton Island there's a well sacred to the natives and if you're Seeking Mr Eaten's Name, you'll hear the children sing around it. This well is not The Well, but perhaps... Perhaps there is something in all wells that even these innocents can grasp. So I don't think the well in Big King Square is the resting place of Mr Eaten — perhaps that's NORTH — but it contains some resonance with The Well that whispers terrible things and drives you mad if you look into it. An echo, if you will.

The Starveling Cat is Mr. Eaten
It's always hungry, and "ruled the roof of five stolen cities." Alternatively, it's Mr. Eaten's pet. "Who's on your collar Mr. Starveling Cat? // Come closer, my dear, if you want to read that..."

There are multiple Neaths, linked by the sacrifices of those who seek Mr. Eaten's name.
Think about it. There are multiple plots that one would think could only be pursued by one person at a time, but they can be played by every player simultaneously. There are events that can have effects changing everything in a particular Neath, but somehow you never hear about it when another player triggers them. Perhaps each player exists in their own personal Neath, and massive sacrifices allow for social actions as the different Neaths are drawn into contact...
  • Interesting, but then how do two residents who have never pursued Mr Eaten's name perform social actions?

Those who follow the Persuasive path are deeper in the Neath's grasp than any other
After all, the most Persuasive people are those capable of manipulating the hearts and passions of others and, as the Duchess will tell you the Bazaar is fueled by, and possibly feeds on, love stories. So there are two possibilities: one, that the very Persuasive are falling head-first into whatever trap the Bazaar sets for people; or two, that they are, with or without realizing it, using the Bazaar's influence to their own ends; and either way they can't be unraveling the secrets of the Neath because they're too embroiled in it all to analyze any of it.

The Comtessa did want to be turned to stone.
  • Truly a doubt that has haunted as many fallen Londoners as have ventured down to the event.

Judas was a Marveller, and betrayed Jesus to get the coins he needed.
In Biblical mythology, Judas was paid in 30 silver coins to betray Jesus. There are also 30 First City coins in the Museum of Mistakes, almost certainly in reference to this. Furthermore, the description for First City coins in the inventory says that "traditionally, these coins are given thirty at a time..." Many suspected that Judas began the tradition of giving 30 coins at a time, but what if it was the other way around? What if the Marvellous existed before his time, and he was a player?
  • This seems highly probable. The devs must've had it in mind, anyways.

Going on the above WMG, Judas' heart's desire was to bring back his friend.
Let's say that after selling out Jesus, Judas experienced a My God, What Have I Done? moment and had a Heel-Face Turn. He did succeed in playing the Marvellous, and he won, but his heart's desire became "I want my friend back." And so, Jesus rose from the dead, and the rest is history...

Mr. Eaten's name is what you get if you draw a map of the city.
From what we've seen, Correspondence sigils look like complicated messes of lines and curves. The city streets are such a complicated mess of lines and curves that you can literally go insane trying to find your way around. Assuming that the Correspondence actually is a Language of Magic, the Forgotten Quarter is in the center of a sigil for "something that has been forgotten", Wolfstack is near a sigil for "animal that never eats eyes", and other places have their own sigils ("a man who lives in dreams", "a place that cannot be found", "a dog that feeds on restraints", and such). The Name is a very complicated sigil, describing "a place powered by love where death has died and chains are consumed, where reckonings are postponed but not forever, where bodies are exchanged and souls are loose, where location is a matter of belief and mirrors, where

I just thought I'd post this, since I was walking by. Whoever wrote it seems to have disappeared; in front of the computer where it was written are several pages covered with some kind of scribbling (that were smouldering when I got here; water didn't seem to help but tearing them up did) and a set of neatly folded clothes.

The next Zee location to be unlocked will be the Carnelian Coast.
In the Associating with Radical Academics story, the Elder Continent is mentioned as the location of the Garden and the object of the Dilmun Club's goals. It's heavily implied that that's where the story will pick up next, so it would make sense.

Getting married will come back to bite us.
One of the Arc Words is "Whatever you do, don't fall in love." Getting a Constant Companion violates that, by definition. With the narrative apparently placing such a heavy emphasis on love themes, there's no way this won't have major ramifications down the line.

Echo Bazaar is a prequel to Metro 2033.
Moscow is the Seventh City, dont'cha know. Hey, it ends up underground. And the Bazaar won't be able to steal any further cities, what with the whole Apocalypse thing having happened - and, as we know, the Seventh City will be the last.

(Alternatively, Moscow is the Sixth City, and the Seventh City will be a previously-unknown lunar colony.)

There is something fundamentally important about names
There's the whole Seeking the Name quest, The Traitor Empress's name is forbidden, as are the old names for London's streets, the London Magazine was forced to change it's name.
  • In addition, almost all the NPCs are identified by either a title, an alias, or by either their first or last name, never both. The only exception I can think of is Tristam Bagley, but he still goes by the Topsy King most of the time.

The Gracious Widow is a survivor of the Fourth City
Namely, Karakorum, old capital of the Mongolian Empire. The reason she lived for so long without aging is because of the peach brandy, which is described as having a similar effect to Hesperidean Cider.

The Correspondence is the game's source code.
And the unfortunate side effects that befall anyone trying to learn it are a particularly violent brand of anti-hacking measures. That, or all we've discovered so far is the "set self on fire" code and there are more useful ones we've yet to discover.

The end of Seeking Mr. Eaten's Name will simply send you back to the start of the quest.
They repeatedly warn you that the quest will bring you no reward. It would be very appropriate if there wasn't even a Cosmetic Award for it, only an infinite loop of misery.

The quest for seeking Mr. Eaten's Name will end with you unwittingly taking revenge on the people who betrayed him
The later levels of the quest involve being betrayed and imprisoned multiple times, being drugged and having your soul ripped out of your body multiple times, then being killed multiple times, with the last death having you thrown into a well. Also, it has an Arc Number: Seven.

What can we deduce from this? That Mr. Eaten is the revenge-seeking ghost of someone who was betrayed by seven people he considered his comrades, forced to suffer a living hell in prison, stabbed multiple times, his corpse thrown into a well and his soul ripped from him to suffer for eternity in Hell. The unnatural hunger is the way he has of calling someone to seek revenge for him, and the quest for his name, rather than revealing The Name, will reveal the identities of the traitors. When they have all gotten their proper retribution, Mr. Eaten himself will visit you, tell you his name, then finally pass on calmly. The Masters and the other inhabitants of Fallen London shun you for doing this because this quest will ultimately shake the very foundations of the Bazaar, possibly even destroying the status quo because retribution would fall on very important figures of the city, who earned their power through their betrayal—Who's there? Who're you! What are you—-AAAAAAAAAARGH!

Everything that has been typed above is a lie. Do not seek Mr. Eaten's Name. You will not win anything. You will lose everything. Abandon this endeavour immediately. This is the only warning you will get.

Rubbery Men are Decapodians.

Nature of the Bazaar and the Masters

I've seen it digesting and then absorbing love stories. Maybe Bazaar is sorrowful about losing "Mt. Nomad", its daughter, so much that even its tears cannot deliver that sorrow. Or it is just sad because it cannot return "between the stars".

So Bazaar demands love stories from its Masters. It must consume our love to endure its endless grief.

Maybe we are already eaten by the Bazaar. London fell into the Neath because the Masters couldn't stand the echo of the Bazaar's love-thirst. Maybe the Bazaar just wanted "friends who will provide love". Maybe that's why we are "Delicious Friends".
The Masters serve the Bazaar. They are fluent in the Correspondence, using it to communicate with each other and with the Bazaar.

February the Revolutionary might have harmed/killed a Master during Christmas, gaining its blood, which has many strange properties - one of them being a human-potable intoxicant.

Masters enjoy new and unusual tastes, of which there are not many for them, and value "Lacre".

Also, they have bad relationship with...a certain former Master. And there's that business with the iron box.

There's a mechanical lift at the Bazaar; its floors are littered with rice-paper and the bones of bats; its steps are designed for those with clawed feet. They also have some connection with Vake, and can, um, breath in SPACE! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Even five Marks of Credit won't allow one to enter these spires, but merely(?) disguising oneself as Mr Sacks will allow entrance.

And it looks like a human being can become one of them, tagging along with the other Masters to follow the Bazaar returning "between the stars."

The Sixth Fallen City will be New York City
It will fall during the 1929 Stock Market crash, the Bazaar will replace Wall Street, and the various districts like Broadway or Brooklyn will be renamed just like London's were. There's even a good candidate for the life to be paid for by New York's fall: Franklin Roosevelt, whose polio in this continuity might have been worse than it was in ours. And let's face it: Fallen Manhattan just sounds like a blast to play through.
  • Interesting as it may be, this is highly unlikely. There's a ~500 year gap between cities (except for the second, but that's obviously a special case). 1929 isn't even a century after London's fall.

Eden is in Parabola.
Eden is mentioned only once in the entire game: In the Castle of Forests, in Parabola.

The Bazaar is in a Love Triangle with the Sun and another star.
On the text for Order Ovate, Night, it is mentioned that the Bazaar is a messenger between the Sun and...something else. The Bazaar cuts the Phoenix off by cursing whatever it was about to name. Combined with the sunlight event at the Feast of the Exceptional Rose and the theory that the Bazaar is Icarus, it would appear that the Bazaar is not only in love with the Sun, but that the Sun is in love with someone (something?) else.

Devils are pollinators of stars.
Bees are a recurring motif, mentioned to be pollinators and associated with devils. Souls are referred to as "star spores" on certain occasions. Perhaps the devils are employed by the Bazaar (or even the Judgments?) to grow souls into stars.

Why does the Bazaar desire love stories?
  • The Bazaar is hopelessly in love with the Sun, but the Sun is its superior and it has no hope of winning its affections. Like a commoner trying to win the heart of a noble, it amasses love stories to show its worth and woo the Sun.
  • From a forum post: "Long ago, when men still walked the Garden and before the Mountain was hidden from the sky, the Bazaar was enamoured of the Sun. Until Correspondence grammar is better understood, the details are likely to elude us, but it seems likely that there was something sordid about the whole affair, and certainly the courtship did not end well. It marked the Bazaar's skin, perhaps for the first time, leaving an indelible record of its shame. Instead of seeking out the nearest reputable tailor, the Bazaar got all emo and hid itself in the deep places. This explains the Bazaar's appetite for love stories. It's collecting camouflage for its own story. Until all its spires are well marked, it will stay in the Neath, out of sight of the cosmic community."
  • The Bazaar was sending a message from another star to the Sun, but lost it somehow. It now has to fabricate a new message based on the most powerful love stories it can find in order to replace the message. It's on a time limit — it only has seven cities to find the love story(ies) it needs.

The Bazaar is an analogy to Icarus.
Of the four "special" storyline qualities that relate to the Neath's deepest mysteries, one is "Seeing Through the Eyes of Icarus". It is increased by things relating to the Correspondence, clocks, the North, the Bazaar, love, false stars — all themes that are important to the Bazaar itself. The Bazaar is, therefore, Icarus. This almost certainly relates to the above theory that the Bazaar is in love with the Sun.

The Bazaar is a comet.
Celestial bodies are important symbols in the Fallen London mythos. It would make sense for the Bazaar to be a comet — a messenger between stars.
  • Could even be tied in with the above theory — it was a comet that got to close to the Sun (perhaps by falling in love with it) and was hurt/punished for it.

Mr. Eaten's name = your name
By the end of the Mr. Eaten story arc, you will have gone through everything that happened to him in the past. Therefore, you have become Mr. Eaten. Consequently, there was no reward to be gained.

Some qualities, like Adrift on a Sea of Misery, don't just track your progress...
But the progress of every player in the game, as a sort of incredibly subtle social action. If enough players contribute to magnanimous actions, there may be options in the future to help alleviate the plight of London's poor. On a darker note, this may also be the case for Advancing the Liberation of Night; if enough players contribute to the Great Work, London's destruction might come that much sooner...

Fallen London exists in the same Verse as Welcome to Night Vale.
London has just the Big City version of all the weirdness; Night Vale has the Small-Town weirdness. The angels conspicuously absent in London exist in Night Vale. Of course, I'm not saying that Night Vale will become the next fallen city or anything like that — London and Karakorum are massive, expansionistic, legalistic, commercialistic centres of culture, trade, and progress; Night Vale is a small town, and couldn't hold the Bazaar. But, Night Vale is on the surface in America, whereas London is underground...possibly underneath Britain.
  This page has not been indexed. Please choose a satisfying and delicious index page to put it on.  



alternative title(s): Echo Bazaar
random
TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy
29982
36