How does Rockoon keep coming back? Doubling and Ravenfreak fled, Splat was defeated and didn't come back, and Demonking has defected (without any consequences from either side, oddly enough...). But Rockoon's lost twice and yet keeps on coming back to cause trouble. What the hell are the admins or moderators doing?! I'm pretty sure if this were a real game, his behavior would have gotten him banned after Episode 1. And yes, he's a hacker, but if he's good enough to keep coming right back in after getting banned, then TOME has some weak-ass coding. Either that or the staff is incredibly lazy. For that matter, why has no one addressed this?
And yes, I've seen the original version and I know that one of the admins is with the bad guys, so he may be giving Rockoon a free pass, but we don't even know if that's the case in the reboot. And even if it is, why focus on HIM out of the five hackers we've seen so far? As of late he's done nothing useful for their cause, whatever it may be.
Well to answer why Rockoon keeps coming back. He's the only hacker that genuinely enjoys his handiwork. Most of the other hackers are Only in It for the Money, and just quit the game after they're paid to do a job. Rockoon on the other hand genuinely loves trolling, griefing, and pestering other players. he keeps coming back because he loves his job more than the pay. As for why he hasn't been banned. None of the other hackers have ever really been "banned" as far as we know either. Maybe it's hard to prove he's hacking his character? TOME is a game based around pure PvP after all so player killing probably isn't against any rules.
It might be hard to prove he hacked his character, but he's been identified by the main cast as a hacker and even hacked a game quest specifically to mess with the game. How have all of the hacker attacks gone unreported for so long, even after clearly harassing several characters outside of the main or supporting cast? Is there no area of TOME for players to complain about player misconduct to the staff?
Additional information comes in the short "Minigame Madness". When a moderator bans a player for attempting to scam players out of their money, but doesn't bother to help players reporting Alpha's virus powers, because it's "not a REAL problem". Apparently if someone is exploiting anything that has anything to do with the combat side of TOME, they moderators take a "learn to play" kind of attitude, and don't take player reports seriously. It also seems to be fairly easy to create new accounts and get into the game again after being banned. As it was the 4th time the banned player had created a new account to come back to TOME.
Kind of makes you wonder how the game's brought people back all this time when it's constantly broken by hackers and the staff don't seem to want to help.
They claim they're busy setting up for the tournament, buuuuuut... Yeah. Still doesn't make much sense. Given that one third of the game does seem to be completely combat free, and as such has about the same social network effect, that might explain why the game is still popular. And if people like Nylocke continue to put down hackers for the Mods without needing to be paid, why would they bother?
Because...it's their job?
It would be a Deus Ex Machina if they simply solved all of the heroes's problems.
And I'm not asking that. I'm asking they just do something or at least show that they're trying to do something. "We don't feel like it" or "we forgot to write them in" is not a reason.
In "Dragon Drama" why didn't Gamecrazed give Kirbopher any advice?
GC was able to give Nylocke advice and help him get over his troubles by encouraging him to face his fears, but he didn't give any advice to Kirbopher at all, when he was asked for his opinion. He seems to be good at reading people despite this though so he could have probably said something helpful for Kirbopher at least if he felt like it. Does he just think helping Nylocke is more important or something?
It's likely that Kirb wasn't there long enough for GC to say anything before Nylocke arrived.
Nylocke asked GC what he thought after he arrived though. And he still didn't have much to say after that. Except that he didn't know what Alpha and Flamegirl thought, which isn't advice.
GC is good at reading people but that doesn't apply to Kirb's problem. Nylocke had a problem that revolved around his own personal issues with TOME as escapism and the drama that challenged it. Kirb on the other hand is dealing with other people who are possibly mad at him. The two situations are different. GC says Alpha and Flamegirl didn't mention anything about Kirb around him so he doesn't know their opinions. Even being good at reading won't matter if nothing is mentioned to give him insight. He says he doesn't have enough information to help because he doesn't want to give advice on a matter he is unsure of.
Tome's Game Mechanics and the player's real lives
Why is it these things are left out of the story? It's like we're missing half the story and setting!
In a new Q&A video on Youtube Niosi says "for the time being he likes leaving it ambiguous. He likes leaving some things open to the imagination of people". He thinks keeping the some parts of the story vague in the beginning is fun. He also likes watching fans speculate about what's going to happen next/ how things work in the show. It's worth noting that he's mentioned a couple times on twitter about reading speculations on youtube, and reading the tvtropes pages, and "that he really enjoys it". (He's watching you, Wild Mass Guessing editors!). However he mentions teasing what the characters are like in real life in episode 06 and 07 too. So he might give us more information about it as more episodes come out.
Damn, I played right into his hands by making the first speculah!
Demonking's employment and association with hackers
Demonking's main reasoning for joining up with the hacker group was his lack of funding for education. Now that he's no longer with them, what's happening with that? As far as we know, he's yet to find any more work and is still playing TOME, so doesn't look like he was going to go very far in whatever school he went to anyway.
D-Buggers.org could have gotten him a subscription or maybe TOME is a game you only have to purchase the program to play it Like Guild Wars. But then again he's a hacker. He might even be able to hack the game so he can play without paying.
But if he's got no job or income and is still playing TOME, regardless of if it's a paid subscription, he's obviously not as desperate to attend classes as he made himself out to be.
Nobody goes to school/work 24/7. Why can't he have a little fun every once and awhile when he's not doing that? We only see him all of once after Episode 3 so it's not like it's been stated he's no-lifing the game. And when was it said he doesn't have a job? You can have a job and still not be able to pay for college. And you can have a job and play games.
And regardless of how fast he turned over, Demonking was still part of the attack on Mechcity. Why has he suffered no repercussions for what he did? Even if it was only the destruction of some graphics and disturbing other people's playtime, doesn't that warrant some form of action from the staff? And if the hackers attacking people and destroying public areas have no real risk or consequences or even lasting implications, then what is the conflict of this show? From what we've seen, hackers can get away with anything, they can come and go as they please, nothing they do affects anything in any major way, and the authorities don't give a crap about it. Or at least the ONE authority we've seen in 6 episodes and 4 shorts, but if there are others, they're not doing anything about it either, so there's nothing to suggest they don't feel the same way.
I assumed they decided not to report Demonking because he ended up being so pathetic, and nice by the end of the whole fiasco. Since the main characters, Whyti, and Saturndiva are the only people we notice witnessing any of it. Also wouldn't punishing the hackers resolve the show's conflict, not cause it? Mods Are Useless is probably where the conflict comes from.
I guess a shortened version of this question would be: If nothing the bad guys do matters, then why is it a problem?
How is Neomutant going to enter the tournament when he's made it clear he's a hacker?
Unless the mods and admins are complete idiots who, on top of denying the virus' existence, also deny the existence of hackers
Only Flamey and Alpha have seen Neo's use in hacking, so it would be their word against many others. As seen in Minigame Madness, the mods seem to have the mentality that either the players play too much or complain on a few loses, but will probably stress (for the sake of fairness) that no cheating will be tolerated during the tournament. As long as the hacker players actually don't use their hacking during the tournament, then I think they'll believe it works out for everyone.
Against WHOSE words? Neo doesn't seem the type to have a big social circle that would defend him. And why would the mods tolerate hackers just because they don't cheat in the tournament? The group is notorious for harassing other players and breaking code simply to increase said harassment. I can see why they'd be skeptical about a virus that hurts players in real life, because that sounds way too strange and there's only been two public incidents of that. But the D-bug group has made several attacks in public with at least enough witnesses to require utilizing their authority to ban them.
His word (and other hackers) against theirs. Again, what proof do they have that he is one? This is actually Truth in Television. Gaming companies require proof for cheating to take action for legal reasons and even pictures aren't accepted as proof anymore because of how easy they are to fake. Mods & developers can't trust the community's perspective either unless they see it themselves because online community members will often lie about each other over petty rivalries. They would either need to investigate the game's logs for errors (which can be very tedious, and they might not even find anything) get video proof, or a moderator would have to see it happen to do something about it. Plus in PvP games being ban-happy toward combat is ironically the best way to drive customers away. It's one reason why PvP games are an unpopular genre in the United States.
Well, that should at least keep Rockoon from competing, since pretty much anyone could identify him as guilty. But seeing as hackers are the main threat in this story, it wouldn't kill them to have at least a scene of the mods and developers at least investigating it, as opposed to Hand Wave that Short 04 gave us.
Well we are talking about a futuristic world where playing an online game can inflict physical pain on the player, so it would not be a stretch to say that Tigerlilly's power could easily bypass such a solution. It is also worth noting that we have no idea what kind of interface TOME operates on, for all we know the game could be running on an advanced AR system, rather then the usual mouse and keyboard setup.
Another problem could be leaving yourself open. If you're taking a second or two to turn down your volume, you're not hitting the dodge/block/counter button on your controller/keyboard. Tigerlilly could gut the target while they're momentarily distracted.
The hackers and Asterob's shield
Why did the hackers need the tournament in order to get the shield away from Asterob? If they had an agent who could create diversions at any time, why not just take it when he's alone? He's clearly not a fighter, despite his class type. In fact, it probably would've been better to do this sort of thing out of the public eye, as opposed to in an arena in front of a giant crowd of people.
Maybe they were taking advantage of a coding loophole. Before, Splat was asking for the shield, trying to extort it. At the stadium, they just steal it.
So what was keeping them from just stealing it with Dustbunny's powers before the tournament? Coding loopholes should be no problem for hackers.
They request hackers all the time for jobs to achieve, based on what skill set they make their characters. Rockoon and Doubling were for demolition and boxing in other players to get them to steer clear of their work. Splat, on Doubling's reluctant recommendation, was to ransack and bribe the beta weapons out of Asterob. Demon King was to create a distraction while Ravenfreak, posing as Alpha, would lure Flamegirl away and attach something to her character. Neomutant was to buffer and test the limits of Alpha's power, and perhaps have Flamegirl's own power activate to neutralize him (whether he knew this fact or not is up for debate). The D-Bug Org seems to get new hackers on different occasions as they're always hiring for a SPECIFIC job before the hackers pack it in and call it a day's work. For all we know, Dustbunny might have been hired Splat, never had a specific opportunity to steal the beta item(s), and/or might not even be a good fighter.
That doesn't answer my question. Dustbunny's specific job seemed to be getting the shield away from Rob. Clearly the tournament doesn't allow item stealing, since Rob was screaming about how she "shouldn't be able to do that", so it's not like they were waiting for special conditions to open up in order to steal it. They already knew where he's usually at (the mansion), they know the mansion's easy to access, they know the guy can't fight, and they have someone who can take away visibility while something's stolen (as seen when she did exactly that during the tournament). My question is, if they had all this info already available...WHY DIDN'T THEY STEAL IT BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT?
Because after Gamecrazed prevented them from stealing the shield the first time we saw that the mansion was packed with players participating in beta tournaments at the mansion. They would be outnumbered if they tried to steal it there. In the stadium it's still public, but there's fewer people with enough access to try to stop them while they're inside the ring, then there is in the combat room of the mansion.
There's nothing keeping other people from jumping into the ring during the tournament. There wasn't even a battle grid set up for Dustbunny's match because it was so quick. And even if they'd be outnumbered when trying to steal it at the mansion, they have a smokescreen, so they could easily escape.
Not true. Dustbunny's match did have a grid set up. You see the grid patterns through parts of the match, and it's covered up by smoke during other parts. And as shown during their match it takes a bit of time for her to set up a full smokescreen like that. So with that many people at the mansion noticing her the odds would have been higher she'd be overwhelmed, by quick attacks before she could do that. Plus after Splat failing because of one player (while having a trapping ability) they probably just didn't want to bother with the mansion now that there's even more people. Moreover they don't know what kind of players are at the mansion, and any morphological or wind based player could dissipate the smoke.
Then they could storm the mansion with more than one hacker. Neomutant has been shown easily disabling character movement that wasn't reversible without special help (IE the virus). They could do that on whatever players they need to, including Asterob, take the shield, and leave. They have a sure way to secure their prize and hide themselves from being identified, but they choose the most public event to steal it in broad daylight?
"Storming" a public meeting place for players and brute forcing his shield away is not anymore discreet than sending a couple hackers to an event, where the audience is basically locked into viewing mode. Storming the place would probably catch even more attention no matter what abilities they have.
Then first, they blind everyone with smoke, THEN disabled everyone's movements, take the shield and leave. It may not be as discreet, but at least they'd hide their identities and get the thing they needed a lot easier than whatever they were trying to pull at the tournament.
It's still much easier to do it at the tournament because there is a grid set up at the tournament, nullifying (or at least minimizing in a major way) the risk of random characters countering their character abilities. Which is still a possibility they want to look out for no matter what hypothetical scenarios you put forward. It also makes their mission a lot simpler, because there's a lot less characters to deal with at once, and by extension a lot less work.
Considering they're HACKERS, as in people who manipulate code to give themselves an advantage, what's stopping them from constructing a battle grid wherever they damn well please?
In the tournament the staff sets up the grid, and there's set amount of people inside. There's a lot less to worry about. And the battle grid mechanic is coded to be set up by offering a challenge to another character. Similar to a duel in other games. Asterob can probably invite anyone he wants to join his side when they set it up too. Really all of these questions come down to "there's a lot less problems if they do it the way they did". That's also why the first time they went to the mansion they did it at a time they thought no one would be there. Again so they don't have to bother with dealing with other characters who are irrelevant to their mission. It's also pretty evident the hackers the Big Bad gets for these jobs don't like doing more work than they have to and only care about the money. Given they complain about it whenever someone is about to wipe them out.
There's no evidence that players can invite others to their private battle, and even then that's not the point. The underlying question is more like "If these characters are hackers, and thus have a greater advantage over most other players, why are they resorting to such convoluted, overly complex plans that keep failing instead of...you know, HACKING." This is a video of a World of Warcraft hack last year. Level 1 players hacking script that allowed them to use a spell which wiped out several major cities multiple times, bones piling up in open areas as residents continued to drop dead in the streets. This is what hackers are able to do, merely as a practical joke. So, if real life hackers are able to do this, how am I supposed to believe that the hackers in this show are having such a tough time getting one item? I'm not saying have a mass genocide every episode, but was there really no other option in getting the shield other than this tournament? And if not, WHY not? These are kind of important questions.
And there were details given earlier that provide a lot of answers to those questions.
Such as? Considering they could kill whoever gets in their way with a simple manipulation of code, I doubt large amounts of players ganging up on them would be a legitimate problem. Hell, Rockoon and Doubling killed tons of players before and during the first episode with just their character skills alone, so this cannot be a rare trait in hackers. Why hold themselves back when they could have the things they want far sooner?
There's no evidence they can simply manipulate the code to instadeth anyone. Nor do we know of any moves that can do that in TOME. Even on that WOW situation you mentioned it actually was a rare event based on faulty code on one of the skills and the code was hotfixed so they couldn't do that shortly after. It was an isolated incident in one game. And all the details that keep getting added for why the hackers chose to do it this way in the show keep getting ignored based on personal greivances so there's not really a point in participating in this sophistry any further. This entry is beating a dead horse.
Why was Kirbopher alone in his match against Zetto/Kizuna?
The tournament is supposed to be in teams... why was Kirbopher alone? Did he just not have any hope, and asked Archy to stay away? I heard from a tertiary source that once you are eliminated in the tournament, you are out for the rest of it. But, that does not fit with the entire theme of the tournament. At the beginning, the Webmaster says that a pair will win; seems pretty easy for one partner to lose, but the other to win. While this would justify Rockoon's actions, as bumping off his partner would ensure he was alone in the tournament, it is kind of a dick move for Saturndiva to eliminate herself, just to stop the annoyance of Foreva, throwing Whyti under the bus potentially for the rest of the tournament in the process.
Webmaster also said that "the tournament is a test of bonds between your fellow players" which Kirb and Archy didn't have. One would assume if Archy were able to stay for the rest of the tournament he would have reappeared in the Balanstadium after Kirbopher won the match. Since he didn't reappear that suggests you get no mercy from the staff, for not being able to protect your partner and work together. Or in Archy's case being too naive to see through a simple trick. Seems if you let your partner die, or throw the fight, you are punished for it. Or at the very least you aren't expected to get very far in the tournament doing that kind of stuff.
Then...why didn't they just say that? They had time for an opening ceremony, but not enough time to explain the rules?
They probably did tell them the rules offscreen. Before the tournament began. As you stated the announcement at the beginning is more like an opening ceremony kind of thing for dramatic effect. Plus none of the characters in the show say that it's strange.
And that's fine for the characters, but the AUDIENCE needs to hear these things. "Well, of course they'd do that, they mentioned that rule at the beginning of the tournament off camera...and then it never got mentioned again." And it's not like that sort of explanation would've taken that much longer to animate compared to the rest of the episode, so why leave that crucial bit of information out?
Because they've said in recent episodes they've been revising the way they tell the story to "show" points more than telling them. And many in the audience were able to figure it out anyway just based on what happened in the episode, and Webmaster's speech at the beginning. It was made even more obvious, by the credits of episode 09, where the characters who lost their matches are all waiting around in the park outside of the arena, and various other locations in TOME.
Webmaster's speech didn't indicate anything about a single teammate being eliminated while the other advanced, and considering the speech was kicking off the beginning of an organized event for the game, THAT would be the time to explain the rules, even the most obvious ones like "a ring out means you lose". It makes no sense to skip over these if they actually happened in-story because, while the players clearly know them, WE DON'T, and therefore have no idea what things the characters can or can't do. And the credits at the end of 09 don't indicate anything other than players who were eliminated are no longer in the tournament, which is basic common sense, unlike "If one of your team is eliminated, you have to carry on alone", which is NOT.
It is common sense when Archy did not in fact carry on after losing. If he were to carry on wouldn't you think he'd appear in the ring where Kirb is after Kirb won? What else needs to be explained? Archy explodes. There's a "LOSE" prompt. He doesn't come back. Common sense would say that it's a rule then. A lot of people gathered that much. Character falls off the ring? A big "LOSE" prompt pops up for the audience to see as well. Pretty much established they lost then. On top of that in the very first match Foreva watches the edge of the ring to make sure that Granda's team doesn't come back into it, and only calls the match after she's sure they're gone, and lost. Pretty much establishing it as a rule for the audience. There's not really anything to say about the rules when it's shown so obviously.
That's not common sense, that's a hint. If we're including possible off-screen moments, it's just as likely that Archy emerged sometime after the match and was told by Kirb to not bother showing up for the next round, considering his attitude about the competition going into it.
It's not a hint. It's a foregone conclusion. He lost a fight. He didn't come back. There's nothing to explain. It just is what it is. Archy's a minor character there's no need to go into huge detail what happened to him after that match. Furthermore that fallacious argument fails as it was mentioned in episode 09 by Zetto that Neomutant and Dustbunny weren't supposed to be in the stadium because they were disqualified. Pretty much solidifying as fact that it's a rule that you are locked out of the stadium after losing. With the rules being explained off screen on the other hand we are told at the beginning that there was a preliminary round we didn't get to see, where they would have explained the rules to the players.
He didn't say they shouldn't be in the stadium, he said he thought they were disqualified, which says nothing about what happens to disqualified contestants after losing, let alone where they can or cannot go after losing. For all we know, they could have just been in an area off-limits to disqualified players. Furthermore, why would they even NEED to lock losers out of the stadium? Why not let them watch the rest of the tournament from within the stadium from the stands?
Yes it does. He wouldn't mention it at all if it didn't imply the meaning that they shouldn't be in the stadium. That doesn't even make sense conversation-wise. And he kills them specifically so they log out and have to respawn outside. It's grasping at straws to theorize they're restricted to specific areas when we never see anything suggesting anyone was able to get back inside after losing. And in fact see an ending suggesting they waited around outside after losing. There's plenty more showing that they can't get back in, and nothing that suggests that they can. Especially if we go by TTA where they're also basically sent outside and locked out when they lose. Then it would be following the original work exactly.
The point is that there is such a lack of details that coming to pretty much any conclusion is grasping at straws. Maybe they simply chose to not come back in after their plan failed (like several other players chose to go about their business after losing), or just not log back in at all (like Rockoon, Doubling and Dustbunny chose not to). Plus there's still no understandable reason as to why losers wouldn't be allowed back in to watch from the stands. There's simply not enough information to tell either way without assuming a lot of details, and that is the issue.
No it's grasping at straws when there are details clearly showing they can't come back to the stadium, but those details are ignored in favor of a more complicated reasons that those characters didn't come back and why the hackers weren't supposed to be there.
And when those details are just as big a leap as the complicated ones, it's called a plot hole.
What is this nonsense? It's not a leap in logic at all. Again Archy died, you log out when you die. We never see him come back. So he can't. The leap would be that that means it's something else that was never implied by the story. It was also discussed that characters who die in a fight are disqualified and aren't supposed to be there. That's all the evidence you need to make a good conclusion. Any other one is disbelieving what the show intended purely motivated by personal grievances based on how Archy wasn't given main character level screen time. The only thing we don't know is the reason why they can't come back, and that doesn't need to be explained because the characters affected by it are all minor characters who aren't important to the plot.
"Use any fire attacks [in this room full of smoke] and the whole place goes up in flames."
Did we just completely forget how smoke works? I know it's a game engine, but in what game is smoke combustible? They probably meant GAS, but then why didn't they say GAS?
This question seems to have answered itself. "it's a game engine". Games don't follow the same logic as the real world.
That seems more of a cop-out than anything, especially since more recent games tend to go more for realism than completely rewriting the chemical properties of smoke.
So what was stopping them from calling it gas, the more substance that ACTUALLY IS combustible?
That it's not gas it's smoke? That's it's easily passable as weird video game logic which has happened in tons of instances in other games? That it's an unimportant detail that doesn't make any difference in the larger scheme of the show's story if it had a better explanation? TOME is also a game with a blob person character class. It's a show that contains a character that can make a cannon three times the length of his body appear out of his chest. It wasn't basing it's internal logic off of any physics other than cartoon physics to begin with.
At least the blob person and giant cannon have some logic to them, as opposed to this.
GC and Zetto's plan
So, Episode 10 reveals that Kirbopher is actually Zetto, and that he has been working with Kizuna, as Tigerlily, and been hiring the hackers this entire time in order to extract the virus from Alpha and contain it. In order to do this, they needed either of the absorption items presented in order to make a program to absorb the virus, and apparently only needed to come into contact with one for a short period of time in order to get the necessary data, as Zetto shows. They also needed the purple flames to weaken the virus WHILE absorbing it, which they gave to Flamegirl for...some reason. And for some other reason, they didn't want this getting out, even though Zetto has connections to the Netkings, and could probably get their help on it. So, if all they needed was to take some data from one of the weapons, why did Kirb not explain this to GC when he got the Drain Edge back in the second episode? The hackers, as many have pointed out, aren't so much threats as they are annoyances, so it's not like he'd have much to explain in terms of why he's working with them at that point other than "They're helping me get rid of that weird power Alpha has, and I know for a fact that it's dangerous, and I need the use of that weapon for a little bit". And getting the needed absorption code that soon would mean they wouldn't have to give up the purple flames for whatever reason, thus making the development of the program go faster, and the actual extraction go much smoother, because they'd have a way of suppressing the virus as they absorbed it. Plus, it would be a lot simpler than trying over-complicated plots to steal the shield or just randomly pissing off the virus like they did in Episodes 5 and 7.