troperville

tools

toys


main index

Narrative

Genre

Media

Topical Tropes

Other Categories

TV Tropes Org
random
Headscratchers: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
  • Where's Harley Quinn?
    • Probably she was too lighthearted a character for this movie. In-story, it's possible she was in Arkham at this point and the Joker didn't bother to bust her out. It's pretty evident that he doesn't care about her unless his schemes need the extra help or he could use a human shield. In the movie, he doesn't have anything big planned besides hanging out at the fairgrounds, minding his own business until Valestra calls on him, so why go through the trouble of springing her?
    • Heh, heh. I get it. Shoo Out the Clowns.
    • Or she and Joker were having one of their fights and she was crashing with Ivy.
    • The Joker evidently prefers Hazel the robowife.

      • Nah, they met years before the series starts. There's a first season episode that has Harley in it, too. She doesn't wear the costume, but it's "Joker's Favor," she dresses up as a cop to bring in the cake to the dinner in Gordon's honor.
      • The movie doesn't necessarily take place at the same time as the series...
      • Oh, good point there. Taking into account the various "pre-Batman" a-ha moments Bruce goes through in the flashbacks (the ninja-like disguise, the prototype Batmobile at the World's Fair, encountering Jack Napier at the Beaumont's home), it looks like he's within the first couple of months of his career...Granted, the presence of the Batwing may or may not scupper this, but this is Batman we're talking about. Remember, Andrea hasn't aged that much either...only a couple of years is my personal guess. Her hair is still red, yes, but the scar tissue of her father's death is still fresh. Oh, and, the people of Gotham, Cmsr. Gordon notwithstanding, still don't know what to do with the Batman.
      • I've always liked to imagine that it takes place (obviously out of canon, and with several differences as far as events go) a few months after the events of Batman: Year One, since there is a scene reminiscent of Batman's run from the police from that book, so Batman's been around for a while, but not long enough to have learned everything yet. He's still working without Robin for one.
      • No primary timeline of the movie, Batman has been Batman for ten years as Andrea commented its been ten years since she was last in Gotham, and he becomes Batman right after she leaves. It may take place before the series proper, but its definitely not that much long before and Robin was in COLLEGE. He's not in every episode of the series either. People seem to miss the fact that in the DCAU, Batman has been Batman for quite some time. Robin became his partner when he was 9 and was at least 18 during the series.
      • This plothole is discussed in the novelization, where college student Dick Grayson calls Alfred and they discuss things.

      • At the very least, it takes place after the episode On Leather Wings, because Harvey Dent is absent for Reed's "Bat bashing" campaign and thus probably already Two-Face.
      • Or it can be much earlier, and Dent might not be the District Attorney just yet.
      • But in the "Robin's Reckoning" two-parter, Batman is active while Dick Grayson is still a young boy and Gordon is a Lieutenant who still has red hair. Gordon's dialogue indicates that Batman is fairly new in town ("This Batman's got him real spooked") and this is maybe over ten years before the "present day", where Gordon is gray haired and the Commissioner. Also, one of Reeve's photographs shows him with Hamilton Hill, implying that Hill is a big cheese in town (i.e. already Mayor). With that in mind, it has to take place during, or at least close to, the "present day" of the first two series'. Presumably Dent's absence suggests that he's already became Two-Face and that Robin not being around suggests that he is is in college; Harley could be in Arkham, with Ivy or the events of her becoming a criminal just haven't happened yet.
      • Gordon also tells Reeve that Batman doesn't kill and divorces himself from the manhunt for Batman in a tone that suggests a very long working relationship between him and Batman.

  • What happened with Andrea and the Joker? He obviously didn't die.
    • There's a sequel comic that reveals that she let him live because she realized he wasn't really the same person who killed her father, or something along those lines
    • Actually, the way I heard it, the ground collapsed and they ended up in the sewers where Joker got away (I think this was in the tie-in comic).
    • What happened was that she was about to kill him, but she hesitated because he had gone so insane and out-of-his-mind, that she wouldn't be killing the man who killed her father at all. He may technically be the same person in body, but not in spirit. And in that moment of hesitation there was another explosion, which hurled them both through the air and sent Joker into the sewer water, where he made his escape.

  • The effects of the Joker's toxin are a tad...inconsistent. When the Joker gives some to Valestra, he turns up dead. Yet when Arthur Reeves gets a dose he's taking to the hospital in a laughing fit. His doctor sedates him and decides to "let the toxin run its course." Isn't this stuff lethal? And if it is, why did Batman(who is strongly opposed to killing)just leave without giving Reeves the cure after his interrogation?
    • Sal Valestra was an old, old man who was already on an oxygen tank—a bad cold probably would've killed him. Arthur is a young and otherwise fit young man. It makes perfect sense that Arthur could survive something that killed an old man.
    • It also might have been two different toxins, one lethal and one not. The Joker had more use for Valestra dead, but he's such a cruel bastard that he might have thought it more amusing if Reed was alive to have to answer to everyone why the Joker showed up at his office.

  • Andrea was just a regular, but in shape, human. The Phantasm suit consisted of cloak, a gas-mask/voice changer, a smoke dispenser, and a blade in each hand. How the hell did she do stuff like dodging multiple bullets in a smokescreen even though your silhouette stands in place, running fast enough to stay ahead of a plane, fitting through a three inch opening in a window, and literally teleporting!? Mask Power?
    • She's as good as Batman.
    • Since this universe has a device that can freeze time, I don't think a personal teleporter unit is so far fetched.
    • It's long been fan theory that she was a metahuman with low level defensive powers.
    • Batman was analyzing and describing a sample of the fog to Alfred at one point, saying it was a complex synthetic polymer he hadn't seen before. The scene quickly shifted focus, but I figured that was the Hand Wave for her seeming teleportation and bullet dodging tricks: somehow the fog itself might be responsible, perhaps by making her body intangible for a few seconds.
    • In this review of a follow up of the movie Mask of the Phantasm, we see that Andrea really is only a human being who now works as a hired assassin, just as good as Batman sneaking up and disappearing. (the first pages show us how she and the Joker cheated death in the movie (Batman & Robin Adventures - Annual #1: Shadow of the Phantasm).
  • When The Phantasm is in the opening scene, killing mobsters, but we see Andrea (who we'll find out later is the Phantasm) on a plane, not having yet arrived to Gotham.
    • We see her on a plane, yes. But we don't know where that plane left from. She could have easily killed those guys, fled the city some other way, and flew in from another airport, or explaning it as a transfer.
    • She secretly took an early flight to kill only Chuckie Sol. Then left Gotham only to return again and make it seem she arrived for the first time. To throw off any suspicions. Batman figured it out.
  • In Mask of the Phantasm, Bruce has a flashback to the night he proposed to Andrea. When they get to her house, we see future Joker throw a cigarette at Bruce's car, presumably because he was done with it. Then when Andrea has a flashback to the same moment from her point of view, Joker is lighting up just moments before when he would have been throwing the cigarette. This troper can only imagine it is because the people who are remembering this night are only human, and it was ten years ago, so they are bound to misremember some things.
    • Maybe he was trying to quit smoking, so he told himself, "I'll light up, but two or three puffs is it."
    • This is future Joker we're talking about here. He probably just did it to be a dick.
  • How did Batman clear his name, all the people that could have testified on his behalf were killed by Phantasm and Joker.
    • He didn't save apparently with Commisioner Gordon for sometime. If you recall the pilot episode for BTAS the police seem all to happy to go after Batman. Sure only Bullock is really gungho about it but even after Gordon keeps telling them to wait, or not fire they don't seem to hesitate much when Bullock gives the order. Given that it's somewhere between difficult and impossible to tell how much time has lapsed between any two episodes (or even in most cases if the episodes are in chronological order) we don't know how long it took for him to patch his relationship with the GCPD. It certainly wasn't sterling by the time they reached P.O.V.
    • This plot hole was tied up in the novelization. A photographer takes a picture of the Phantasm after the death of Chuckie Sol. Coincidentally, that photographer is the one who meets Andrea on the cruise ship.
    • Gordon didn't suspect that Batman was behind the killings to begin with, and was vocally opposed to the manhunt against Batman. There was very little evidence that Batman was present at the crime scenes for any other reason than that he was doing what he always does; help out. So Gordon probably had the entire idea scrapped after the killings stopped. Also consider that it was probably pretty hard to keep the case up once they found out that the attorney who who suggested the manhunt was trying to cover up the highly-illegal business he did with all of the victims.
  • Why does Batman chase Joker in the end sequence? Surely with all those explosives it would have been safer to leave Joker and get out of there safely?
    • Several reasons. First of all, he's Batman: He's not about to just let someone (even the Joker) get killed in a massive explosion. Second, it's the Joker: chances are very slim he was at the fair grounds because he made parole. If he survived (which he has a history of doing even in the ugliest scenarios), he'd just be on the loose again, putting more people in danger. Last but not least, he just found out that this guy is indirectly responsible for the cancellation of the wedding engagement that might have saved him from becoming Batman, so the Joker probably had an ass-kicking with his name on it.
  • If it's commons knowledge that Joker is Jack Napier, wouldn't Bruce know that Napier had worked for Valestro back in the day?
    • Not if he was working for Valestra under an alias. Apparently Joker's had a lot of them. Even Jack Napier may be one.
  • Okay Carl, you done a bad, bad thing and embezzled money from mobsters who are going to slaughter you and your daughter like chickens. Good thing she just got engaged to the richest man in Gotham who is a nice, moral guy with a strong sense of justice and duty! I'm sure he'll be happy to lend you the money...Oh, you'd rather run to Greece, huh? Not even going to bother asking? Your choice. Dumbass.
    • Yes, because moral, upstanding guys with strong senses of justice are totally cool with handing money over to mobsters. If he'd gone to Bruce, Bruce would have gone to the police, which still ends up ruining Carl at best.
    • Bruce probably would have helped the father of his life's love. But Carl Beaumont probably didn't know that. Remember, the "Bruce Wayne" in the public eye is a billionaire playboy and a savvy businessman. Beaumont probably assumed that Bruce would run to the police or use the plea for help as an opportunity for Wayne Enterprises to take over his company.
    • It would be cool if the old team (Timm, Dini, etc.) got together to create an Elseworlds story about what would've happened if Carl had gone to Bruce. Let's say instead of Bruce whipping his checkbook out on the spot, he promises to "take care of it." He then dons the Batsuit for the first time (I dunno, maybe he had it tailored before he decided to change "The Plan") and goes out to kick Valestra and the other's asses. Bruce and Andrea get married and he either tries to balance both married life with being Batman or just stuffs the suit in a closet somewhere and never goes out again...at least not for a few years. Because this is Batman though, the marriage eventually implodes because of the stress of Bruce's secret life (We can't all be Mary Jane) or because Bruce is eaten up by guilt that he didn't keep his vow. Somehow, he still becomes Batman...just not in the exact same way or a few years late.
Batman Beyond: Return of the JokerHeadscratchers/FilmBatman: Under the Red Hood

random
TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy
16589
23