Fridge: Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days
Looking for Fridge Logic
and such for the rest of the series, excluding Kingdom Hearts 358 Over 2 Days
? Check here
. Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep
has its own page here
. as does Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
- Fridge Brilliance: So, if Axel's such an asshole, why did he choose to be so nice to Roxas, of all people? Lea met Ventus. Axel retains those memories. Boom, friendship. Though seeing as the meeting between Lea and Ven was only for a few minutes, that it can spark a "best friendship" with Roxas is...strange, to say the least.
- Except Axel isn't an asshole. He was just acting like one for the sake of his goals. Underneath it, he's a pretty laid back guy.
- Let's review the people who met both Roxas and Ventus. Lea, who didn't meet Ven for long enough to remember him, but did develop enough of a connection to piggyback some rudimentary emotions off of Roxas from the semi-inert Ven heart shaping Roxas; Tinker Bell and Stitch, both of whom are incapable of speaking English, and so might have actually noticed something, but couldn't say so; Philoteces, who wasn't paying much attention when he met Ven, and would only really remember Terra the Hero and maybe Sexy Aqua (Herc would recognize him, but a big deal was made about how Roxas kept juuust missing him). 358/2 was, it appears, carefully planned so that Roxas either gets sent only to places where Ven didn't go, or to places where Ven went but only at times when the people who could say something weren't there. Braig/Xigbar probably knew the entire time, but didn't say anything out of fear of waking Ven's memories up, since he knew that would be a Bad Thing.
- Tinker Bell almost certainly remembered — she latched onto Roxas immediately and repeatedly. Not to mention that Roxas remaining eternally young would be perfectly normal for her. Not only that, but Ven had probably been in Neverland long enough to at least begin to understand Tinker Bell - not Roxas.
- And another bit of Fridge Brilliance there - Ventus met Tinker Bell, but he also met Peter Pan. Peter Pan was intentionally kept out of the game because otherwise he'd become a Walking Spoiler.
- In Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days, Roxas and his friends always end the day by eating ice cream. This bothered this Troper for a while, "Yes, yes, it was funny how it kept showing up in KH 2, let's move on already!" until she thought about it for a while. Where else would three people sit around together, enjoying a food that brought them closer? That's right! The ice cream is Roxas's paopu fruit.
- Also, the main difference between ice cream and... any other food? It melts and disappear with time.
- Let's tack on another Kingdom Hearts example courtesy of this troper. One thing always bothered me in Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days, and that was that occasionally, during cutscenes with Xion, her hood would alternate between being on and off (in the same scene) while it never showed her putting it up or down. I thought it was just shoddy use of models. I learned that due to the nature of Xion's existence, the Organization members all see her, literally see her, differently. This didn't really click with me until about a month after I had beaten the game and I was thinking about my hood peeve — I realized that the scenes in which that happens all happen around Organization members who view her as a puppet without an identity, so it would only make sense for them to only see her with her hood up (i.e. faceless), while Roxas would be able to see her face!
- Xion from 358/2 Days is another intentional Mary Sue. The (rather weak) promotional stuff for the game made her seem like a Canon Sue straight out of a fanfiction. All Common Mary Sue Traits were there; fourteenth member of Organization XIII, Kairi lookalike, wields a keyblade, and has a big impact on Roxas and Axel) Then the game came out. Xion's true (and twisted) identity was revealed. And suddenly EVERYTHING made sense!
- For this troper, the title Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days didn't make sense. Then it hit him after re-reviewing the entire series as a whole. Kingdom Hearts II is supposed to take place about one year after the original Kingdom Hearts. One year equals 365 days. The 358 days Roxas spends in Organization XIII, plus the beginning prologue he goes through in II lasts six days, and the day Sora wakes up, the 7th day, should equal 365. The training sequence for 358/2 Days also starts on the 7th day. All those ways connect Roxas' 358 days over to Kingdom Hearts II's 7 days remaining in which Sora wakes up!
- And of course, the "Over 2" refers to Roxas and Xion siphoning off of Sora's memories. — X2X
- Didn't Word of God confirm the "Over 2" referred to the night Roxas went to sleep and woke up in the Twilight Town simulation?
- On a related note, the fact that Beast's Castle is the world where Riku meets Xion and is also the place where he sees her for the last time has a lot of potential for Fridge Brilliance. Think about it. During this game, Riku's wearing a blindfold to prevent himself from turning into Ansem, which kind of parallels the Beast in a way... While Xion ends up being held against her will by the Organization, not unlike Belle.
- About Roxas's Keyblades... Oblivion represents the awareness that he is incomplete, and his destruction would leave nothing behind. However, his Oathkeeper represents the duty of taking down Orginization XIII that he feels so obligated towards on behalf of Xion. His dual-wield is basically making the statement "Yeah, what happens to me doesn't matter, and I've got nothing to lose. But I have a promise to keep."
- Rather, look at it this way: we can theorize that, out of Roxas's two Keyblades, Oblivion is Xion's, because when Riku is holding it, he gets flashes of her memories and can remember her more clearly than Roxas. Roxas's Keyblade, therefore, is the one that became Oathkeeper. Roxas had to keep his promise to Xion, while Xion faded away into a more profound nothingness than the rest of Organization XIII, she fell into true oblivion.
- I always thought it was the beginning of Sora influencing Roxas, like the dreams Roxas has at the beginning of KH2. Oathkeeper being Sora's promise to Kairi, and Oblivion representing Riku, who, when he and Sora parted ways at the end of the first game, was trapped in the dark realm.
- Much simpler explanation: Roxas wields the Oathkeeper beause he's trying to keep his promise to Xion and the Oblivion because he's forgetting about her.
- Sorry to burst your bubbles, but Word of God states that Oathkeeper and Oblivion represent Sora's memories of Kairi (Light = Oathkeeper) and Riku (Dark = Oblivion).
- Doesn't say that's the only explanation though. And we know multiple things in the series, like Xion's name, are supposed to mean multiple things.
- True, very true.
- Is this the only troper who always had a feeling that Oblivion represented Roxas's connection with Axel?
- The logic can be seen, only, to expand, it could represent the Oblivion of his friendship with both Axel and Xion (even though, technically, they never stopped being friends, but you get where I'm coming from, right?)
- This Troper was initially annoyed by how flat and two-dimensional the Nobodies were, but... of course their personalities are shallow. The whole point is that their third dimension was their heart. They're shadows of the people they once were.
- For once, it's not just an excuse for bad character development, it's actually completely intentional. Notice how, especially in 358/2 days, a few of the Nobodies end up blatantly overusing certain catchphrases (like Axel's "Got it memorized?" or Xigbar's "As if.")? And in at least one case (Xigbar), it actually gets more noticeable as the game progresses, as if Roxas and Xion are becoming less and less like shadows as they get closer to Sora.
- This just dawned on this troper from reading this page. Roxas blacks out when he enters Castle Oblivion for the first time. It dawned on this troper, that because of how close the connection Roxas had to Ventus he ended blacking out. Could it be that Roxas had Ventus's heart, and it wanted to reconnect with him, yet couldn't? Maybe. Mind equals blown for this troper.
- At some point early in the game, Roxas gets the day off. He generally spends this day derping around and trying to figure out what he's supposed to do with himself, but that's beside the point. This vacation occurs on Day 118 of Roxas's time in the Organization. Now, to me, Kingdom Hearts 2 has always taken place in late Summer/early Fall, as we see, during the course of KH2, the Struggle Match, which according to DTT residents, always happens right before school starts. Since Roxas spent exactly one year as a separate being from Sora, this means he was born some time in late summer/early fall. There are exactly 116 days between September 1 and December 25. Yes, fellow tropers, Xemnas gave the Organization a Christmas/New Year's vacation.
- By taking that date into account, Roxas joined the organization on August 29, Xion arrived on September 5, Axel and Roxas' conversation on the color of the sunset is on May 11, and Deep Drive occurs on August 22.
- Actually, it's stated that the events of Halloween Town in the first game took place 36 days (September 25) before Halloween; meaning Roxas was created around late September/early October. And in some countries, Summer ends around mid September. All we know about the timeline is that Sora woke up just two days before the beginning of the school year, and Xemnas was defeated shortly after Christmas.
- Of course that's 36 Days till before Halloween Town by Halloween Town's timeline. All the worlds run at different speeds...which kind of makes the entire point moot. Still I like to think Xemnas gave them a day off based on the Twilight Town Calendar that The World That Never Was shares.
- After completing the Neverland stage in Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep, this troper suddenly had one of these — Tinker Bell seemed so insistent on getting Roxas to go somewhere in 358/2 because he looks exactly like Ventus - And Tinker Bell knew Ventus from 10 years ago. Heck, that's probably also why Peter Pan never appeared in Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days (other than the fact that they were supposed to operate in stealth). Because if Tink remembered Roxas as Ventus, so would Peter Pan. And Peter Pan would probably wind up giving away some of Birth by Sleep's plot, even if the Neverland portion was relatively minor. Of course, I don't know why Tink never thought of saying "Hey Peter Pan! Ventus is back! Remember him from 10 years ago?!" That's also probably why we're lucky that Captain Hook never looked over in Roxas's direction — because he looks just like Ventus, the kid who kicked his ass 10 years ago (after slowing him, that is.)
- Axel and Sa´x are sun and moon. Yeah, Sa´x obviously draws power from the moon and that's the symbolism there, but what's Axel's? Look at his weapon - The chakrams actually look like a sun. And sun is often associated with fire...
- An extension of this: Axel's "You know why the sun sets red?" talk... He was talking about himself: He's the color red, the one member of the Organization, who "traveled the farthest", ergo, got closest to regaining his heart: By formining a friendship with Roxas and becoming a piece of his/Ventus' heart.
- Saix is Blue and Xemnas is Purple/Black, the colors the travel the shortest.
- Why did Riku call Xion and her keyblade a sham? We know about Xion, but what about her keyblade? Answer: It's a counterfeit Kingdom Key, a pale imitation of the real Kingdom Key. Assuming the Kingdom Key of Light is indeed half of the X-blade, there can't be two of them. Therefore, Xion's Kingdom Key of Light must be a fake.
- Unfortunately, there must be two of them, because Roxas was also using the Kingdom Key for the period of time between the end of KHI and the end of CoM... at the same time as Sora. I'm pretty sure Nomura even confirmed somewhere that they were using the same Keyblade. Besides, how would Riku know about the X-blade, much less about the Kingdom Key being half of it?
- However, Xion's keyblade is indeed a fake. Xion being a replica of Sora's memories, his memories of being a keyblade spawned a replica of one for her to use.
- It always annoyed me how Xion got her keyblade back. I mean, "Forgot how to use it?" What? Then I played Birth by Sleep and realized what really happened. Roxas performed a Rite Of Sucession on Xion. And Xion was already a Keyblade Weilder, that means Roxas gave Xion innate dual weilding abilities. Therefore both of Roxas's Keyblades belong to Roxas!
- Fridge Brilliance / Tearjerker: In the scene where Roxas and Xion meet Genie, Genie remarks that they could do better than a simple, "Nice to meet you too," kind of thing. Tearjerker comes in when you realize that because they're Nobodies, they actually CAN'T do better. Whenever they go into worlds and meet people with Hearts, they're doomed to see everyone around them all enthusiastic and happy/sad/angry/etc while they themselves cannot. Brilliance comes in when you realize that it may be one of the reasons they are to remain stealthy. Interacting with normal people, with the Tearjerker in mind, would most definitely lower morale in the group.
- But if they don't have emotions, how can they have morale?
- Fridge Brilliance: Xion is indeed yelling generic taunts to Roxas... but in actuality she's committing Suicide by Cop. She knows she's the irregular who isn't supposed to exist; whereas Roxas won't cause any more harm by being alive. So she wants to die, but she can't do it herself, as Roxas needs to inherit her abilities. She's close enough to Roxas that she wants to die for his sake; and she knows that she can't just walk up to Roxas and say, "Kill me. Please. It's for your own good". Thus, she pretends to go Axe Crazy and makes Roxas kill her out of self-defense, and taunts to make him think she really is Axe Crazy when inside, she's probably tearing herself up with every Ragnarok she throws at Roxas.
- It also explains why she never fights Roxas in her normal form. She's basically pulling an Angeal, deliberately taking on a monstrous form to make it easier for Roxas to kill her.
- Saix is pretty much the biggest douche in the game, but when you think about how Roxas (and Xion) strain and ultimately ruin his long-time friendship with Axel, it becomes pretty clear. The fact that Axel ultimately choses the two newcomers over him and the plan that they had worked on for who-knows-how long must have made him less-than-approving (if he had a heart, I'd say he'd be furious/feel betrayed) of Roxas and Xion.
- It gets even worse if you go play Drop Dream Distance because it turns out Saix was one of the ones to undergo the multiple Xehanort plan and so his personality changes were partly due to Xehanort slowly hijacking his brain. It's unclear if Saix was aware was going on to himself, but Axel notices the changes to his friend and...wrote it off as Saix just turning into a bigger jerk and ditched him for Xion and Roxas. Ouch.
- It's actually apparent in game that Saix doesn't know anything beyond what Xemnas tells him, and he strongly believed Axel was the one who had changed, not him. Saix was suspicious of Xemnas's goals and generally wanted to take over the organisation with Axel to get their hearts back. So he couldn't have wanted or even realized he was slowly turning into a vessel for xehanort. Heck even Xemnas at the time didn't know about Xehanort since he's basically possessed Terra's amnesic nobody. Xigbar was basically the only member...actually, the ONLY person in the game who knew exactly what was going on.
- Technically Xemnas knew full well about Xehanort's plan to create the χ-blade to create a new world as shown by Drop Dream Distance even if he didn't have any memories of his life before becoming a Nobody.
- During the boss battle with Xion, she dons armor in several new forms. It is confusing how she can do so while no other nobodies can. While most people would chalk that up to her being a weird nobody being formed from Sora's memories, the real reason comes from Birth by Sleep. Xemnas's armor in Kingdom Hearts 2 can be explained the same way. They were wearing the armor of Keyblade wielders. Xemnas got his from being the Nobody of Terra being possessed by Xehanort, giving him armor almost identical to Xehanort's, but it is still altered due to the fact it is Terra's body. But where does Xion get hers? Well she gets hers from Sora, who inadvertently also contains the heart of Ventus within his heart. Xion is able to wield the armor because she has memories from Sora, who in turn may have obtained memories from Ventus by accident. Through this she knew how to wield Keyblade armor, but due to the fact she is based on Sora's memories, and because Sora had no training with wielding Keyblade armor, she donned a demented version of real keyblade armor. Each transformation was an attempt to recreate the Keyblade armor correctly so as to protect herself from Roxas properly. However in the end she just couldn't recreate it properly.
- Xion's existence explains a lot of things about Axel's interaction with Roxas at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts II. His complete obsession with Roxas wasn't because they were really close, but rather because Axel was remembering his friendship with two people squeezed into one. In other words, the fangirls were hating the very thing that gave them the pairing that they love so much.
- Considering Axel was writing that "[He'd] do anything to stop Roxas from being erased" even before Xion died it's possible they were that close and Xion had nothing to do with it.
- Not really. Considering Dream Drop Distance and Lea's dream interactions with Roxas, I'd say the original troper has a valid point. And remember, he said he also can't just standby and let Xion disappear either.
- Why does the Moogle still want your Heart points (the money) after you leave the castle?
- Black market double dealing would be entirely in character for a black cloak wearing shop-moogle. And according to the game, Roxas was the only one who actually bought anything from the Org-Moogle.
- The infamous translation errors between KH1 and KH2 may seem particularly odd at first... until you realise they aren't translation miscues. Would Organization 13 have known or cared about what Jiminy Cricket named the Heartless? Nope. They named them what they wanted.
- The Organization's policy of avoiding contact with others while on a mission makes a lot more sense given the revelation in 3D about Nobodies being able to form new hearts. Xemnas's goal was to create thirteen empty vessels for Xehanort's heart, right? Well, as Roxas, Data-Sora, and various others have demonstrated, people seem to gain hearts when they form connections with others, so Xemnas attempted to isolate the Organization members from other people in order to keep them from gaining new hearts!
- So Xion has many faces because she's made up of Sora's memories, right? But her true form that only her best friends can see really resembles Kairi. The reason for that is that when Xion started absorbing Sora's memories, she first picked up his strongest memories, which are that of Kairi. Now think forward to Kingdom Hearts II at the beginning of the game when Roxas sees Sora's memories in dreams. The very last memories to come back, that keep getting cut off throughout the process, are those of Kairi because they were the first ones to be lost! Whether that's a coincidence or if it was planned out from the beginning, it's still pretty brilliant.
- Sora's memories of Kairi go through a lot of mangling in this series - they were the ones NaminÚ took most advantage of, too.
- When you watch the opening to Kingdom Hearts II, the game chronologically right after 358/2 Days, the very first scene with the seashell washing away suddenly holds some meaning...
- Why does Demyx not only want to do just reconnaissance missions but also actually enjoy them? We know he likes playing his sitar during missions (according to Xion), so he's actually using his observations as inspiration!
- I was just listening to Xion's theme when I was hit with the realization that like the themes of Ven, Aqua, and Vanitas in Birth by Sleep, her theme contains elements of other themes in the series. The most notable one is Kairi's theme, as she mostly resembles her due to being based on Sora's memories of her acting as a sort of template. Then when she is fought at the end of the game, Dearly Beloved plays in the stead of Kairi's theme, reflecting the love that blossomed between Sora and Kairi and then Roxas and Xion.
- Days is the only KH game with a real Desperation Attack mechanic, the Limits. Think about it: Nobodies are connected to Nothingness. When they die, they dissolve into Nothing. Of course being on the brink of death would make them more powerful.