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Outside its own namespace on Sugar Wiki, And The Fandom Rejoiced should only be used in trope page descriptions or for in-universe examples.
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* AndTheFandomRejoiced: Creative Assembly has acquired the Warhammer License. Oh hell yes!
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* AndTheFandomRejoiced: Creative Assembly has acquired the Warhammer License. Oh hell yes!
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** While we're striding on to ''Medieval II''... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor... of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
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** While we're striding on to ''Medieval II''... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark ([[WesternAnimation/SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor... of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
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rm stray markup
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** Another from ''Shogun 2'': MASTER, WE ARE NOT MAKING ENOUGH OF THE TRADE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS PROVINCE.]]
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** Another from ''Shogun 2'': MASTER, WE ARE NOT MAKING ENOUGH OF THE TRADE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS PROVINCE.]]
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I just checked what these quotes sound like and the accent is not anywhere NEAR that strong, making this seem racist. Also, the second quote is not correct and the correct quote is too long, so I\'ll just cut most of it off.
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* CriticalAnnoyance: [[LargeHam OURR MEN ARR RUNNIG FROM THR BATTRLFIERD! A SHAMEFURR DISPRAY!]] (Courtesy of ''Shogun 2'')
** Another from ''Shogun 2'': [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
** Another from ''Shogun 2'': [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
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* CriticalAnnoyance: [[LargeHam OURR OUR MEN ARR RUNNIG ARE RUNNING FROM THR BATTRLFIERD! BATTLEFIELD! A SHAMEFURR DISPRAY!]] SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!]] (Courtesy of ''Shogun 2'')
** Another from ''Shogun 2'':[[FunetikAksent MASTA, MASTER, WE R ARE NOT MAKING ENUFF ENOUGH OF DA THE TRADE INFRASTRATUR INFRASTRUCTURE IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.THIS PROVINCE.]]
** Another from ''Shogun 2'':
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Moved to the Fridge page.
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* FridgeBrilliance: Ever wonder why mainland France is all of two provinces in Empire? [[hottip:*: France proper and Alsace-Lorraine.]] It's because of the centralizing nature of Louis XIV's government.
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* NecessarilyEvil: In Rome total War, even the largest cities will inevitably succumb to squalor which will put their public order and income into the negative. The only ways to slow the onset of squalor is to set the tax rate at maximum and to slaughter the populace of a conquered city.
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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: George Washington (the classic example) in the "Road to Independence" campaign in ''Empire.''
** Arguably, ''L'Empereur'' himself in his campaigns in ''Napoleon.''
** Arguably, ''L'Empereur'' himself in his campaigns in ''Napoleon.''
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* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: George Washington GeorgeWashington (the classic example) in the "Road to Independence" campaign in ''Empire.''
** Arguably,''L'Empereur'' ''[[NapoleonBonaparte L'Empereur]]'' himself in his campaigns in ''Napoleon.''
** Arguably,
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----
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** And that's not counting the ability to pitch off the different DLCs of ''Shogun 2'' with the factions in the original game. Ever wanted to reenact the final battle in ''TheLastSamurai?'' Now it's possible.
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** And that's not counting the ability to pitch off the different DLCs of ''Shogun 2'' with the factions in the original game. Ever wanted to reenact the final battle in ''TheLastSamurai?'' Now it's possible.possible.
----
----
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** The opening of ''Napoleon'' can be a mild instance of NightmareFuel for some. Napoleon's speaking, delivering his BadassBoast, and then... he's on an unidentified shore, ships burning in the background, and one huge battleship lying on its side on the beach. He gives the order to burn it. [[OhCrap It's the HMS Victory, Nelson's flagship.]] For Nelson/England/Royal Navy fans... the sight is chilling.
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*TheScrappy: The advisers, who pop up ever time you click most things.
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* FridgeBrilliance: Ever wonder why mainland France is all of two provinces in Empire? [[hottip:*: France proper and Alsace-Lorraine.]] It's because of the centralizing nature of Louis XIV's government.
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Nightmare Fuel cleanup; see the thread for details
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* HighOctaneNightmareFuel: The Geisha in the first ''Shogun''. Even when they are on ''your'' side, it's hard to escape the fact that these are inhuman white-faced super-assassins you're dealing. Their most routine targets, the generals, happen to be their most terrifying kill- they begin by playing music on a lute for the general and his guests, camera cuts away and we here a ruckus coming from the room, the Geisha walks out and we cut back to the room- the general, and his pals, bloody, dead, and ''hanging from the ceiling by the lutes wires''.
** To make matters worse, there is ''always'' [[ParanoiaFuel a Geisha sitting in your throne room. Watching.]]
** To make matters worse, there is ''always'' [[ParanoiaFuel a Geisha sitting in your throne room. Watching.]]
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* NightmareFuel: The Geisha in the first ''Shogun''. Even when they are on ''your'' side, it's hard to escape the fact that these are inhuman white-faced super-assassins you're dealing. Their most routine targets, the generals, happen to be their most terrifying kill- they begin by playing music on a lute for the general and his guests, camera cuts away and we here a ruckus coming from the room, the Geisha walks out and we cut back to the room- the general, and his pals, bloody, dead, and ''hanging from the ceiling by the lutes wires''.
** To make matters worse, there is ''always'' [[ParanoiaFuel a Geisha sitting in your throne room. Watching.]]
** To make matters worse, there is ''always'' [[ParanoiaFuel a Geisha sitting in your throne room. Watching.]]
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* AngstWhatAngst: If you masacre 3/4th of a city when capturing it, the city will be happier than if you'd just occupy it. It's not crowded anymore, and that is one of the main sources of unhappiness. The fact that you've almost murdered everyone doesn't have any effect on the survivors' mood.
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* AngstWhatAngst: If you masacre 3/4th massacre 3/4ths of a city when capturing it, the city will be happier than if you'd just occupy occupied it. It's not crowded anymore, and that is one of the main sources of unhappiness. The fact that you've almost murdered everyone doesn't have any effect on the survivors' mood.
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*** Averted in ''Empire'' and ''Napoleon'', where looting a city results in massive happiness penalties that could easily spark a revolt within a couple of turns unless you cut taxes and fill the city with militia/dragoons. Especially true when taking the massive major faction capitals (Paris, London, Moscow, etc.). Looting usually works best when you don't intent to hold the city at all - just keep the (huge amounts of) cash and give it back or let the enemy retake it.
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*** Averted in ''Empire'' and ''Napoleon'', post-''Empire'', where looting a city results in massive happiness penalties that could easily spark a revolt within a couple of turns unless you cut taxes and fill the city with militia/dragoons. Especially true when taking the massive major faction capitals (Paris, London, Moscow, etc.). garrison troops. Looting usually works best when you don't intent intend to hold the city at all - just keep the (huge amounts of) cash and give it back or let the enemy retake it.
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* CriticalAnnoyance: [[LargeHam OURR MEN ARR RUNNIG FROM THR BATTRLFIERD! A SHAMEFURR DISPRAY!]] (Courtesy of Shogun 2)
** Another from Shogun 2: [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Forever'' (the credits for Rome: Total War)
** Another from Shogun 2: [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Forever'' (the credits for Rome: Total War)
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* CriticalAnnoyance: [[LargeHam OURR MEN ARR RUNNIG FROM THR BATTRLFIERD! A SHAMEFURR DISPRAY!]] (Courtesy of Shogun 2)
''Shogun 2'')
** Another fromShogun 2: ''Shogun 2'': [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Forever'' (the credits forRome: Total War)''Rome'')
** Another from
* CrowningMusicOfAwesome: ''Forever'' (the credits for
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIEunqeXF0s This]] main menu theme when you start Medieval Total War II for the first time may cause you to wet your pants.
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIEunqeXF0s This]] main menu theme when you start Medieval Total War II ''Medieval II'' for the first time may cause you to wet your pants.
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4pbnFzNwk Mare Nostrum]], the Mobilisation theme for Mediterranean factions in Medieval II.
** van Dyck's work in ''Shogun 2'' and its DLCs are no pushovers either.
** van Dyck's work in ''Shogun 2'' and its DLCs are no pushovers either.
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4pbnFzNwk Mare Nostrum]], the Mobilisation theme for Mediterranean factions in Medieval II.
''Medieval II''.
** van Dyck's work in ''Shogun 2'' and itsDLCs {{DLC}}s are no pushovers either.
** van Dyck's work in ''Shogun 2'' and its
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** Moving back in time, or forward in terms of games, Horse Archers in ''Rome: Total War'' count too. In ''Medieval II'', they've largely been nerfed to the level of GoddamnBats as your knights can generally beat them; their true threat is to infantry armies or armies weak in cavalry. Horse archers in Rome can be countered by archers or cavalry, or by really heavy infantry who can soak up the missiles, so they're not that dangerous... unless you're unfortunate enough to deploy mainly phalanxes.
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular. Medieval II's Mongol horde was manageable if you had the right units in your army (lots of light and heavy cavalry.) In the first game, the Mongols got dropped in Khwarezm with about 10,000 men, ''far'' more soldiers than any one faction is liable to possess by that time. They made the Russian High Era start the hardest faction in the game. Don't get us wrong though; the Mongols of II are ''not'' to be messed with... and that applies to the ones who turn up in Shogun I too...
** While we're striding on to Medieval II... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor ...of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular. Medieval II's Mongol horde was manageable if you had the right units in your army (lots of light and heavy cavalry.) In the first game, the Mongols got dropped in Khwarezm with about 10,000 men, ''far'' more soldiers than any one faction is liable to possess by that time. They made the Russian High Era start the hardest faction in the game. Don't get us wrong though; the Mongols of II are ''not'' to be messed with... and that applies to the ones who turn up in Shogun I too...
** While we're striding on to Medieval II... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor ...of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
to:
** Moving back in time, or forward in terms of games, Horse Archers in ''Rome: Total War'' ''Rome'' count too. In ''Medieval II'', they've largely been nerfed to the level of GoddamnBats as your knights can generally beat them; their true threat is to infantry armies or armies weak in cavalry. Horse archers in Rome ''Rome'' can be countered by archers or cavalry, or by really heavy infantry who can soak up the missiles, so they're not that dangerous... unless you're unfortunate enough to deploy mainly phalanxes.
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular.Medieval II's ''Medieval II'''s Mongol horde was manageable if you had the right units in your army (lots of light and heavy cavalry.) In the first game, the Mongols got dropped in Khwarezm with about 10,000 men, ''far'' more soldiers than any one faction is liable to possess by that time. They made the Russian High Era start the hardest faction in the game. Don't get us wrong though; the Mongols of II ''II'' are ''not'' to be messed with... and that applies to the ones who turn up in Shogun I ''Shogun I'' too...
** While we're striding on toMedieval II...''Medieval II''... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor ...favor... of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular.
** While we're striding on to
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* GameBreaker: So many [[Gamebreaker/TotalWar it has its own page!]]
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* GameBreaker: So many many, [[Gamebreaker/TotalWar it has its own page!]]
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* ScrappyMechanic: Surpisingly enough for a series this long, there really aren't that many. There is one that mars what is otherwise a brilliant game, Shogun 2. "Realm Divide" basically has Japan ally up and split into two sides when you reach about 15 provinces or so (Out of about 65). These sides consist of you, and the other side consists of everyone else in Japan, [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder including clans who have been allies with you for years.]] If you don't think that's unfair enough... each clan arrayed against you is [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard given multiple gigantic stacks of veteran units every turn.]]
** This is also prevalent in Rome and Medieval 2; once your empire is large enough, the other factions will gang up on you, often while still remaining at war with one another (yet not doing anything about it). Empire generally fixed these issues, as long as the player was careful not to upset the other factions.
* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' can pretty much pass itself off as a prequel to ''TheLastSamurai.''Indeed, at least one reviewer has called it the "TomCruise DLC."
** This is also prevalent in Rome and Medieval 2; once your empire is large enough, the other factions will gang up on you, often while still remaining at war with one another (yet not doing anything about it). Empire generally fixed these issues, as long as the player was careful not to upset the other factions.
* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' can pretty much pass itself off as a prequel to ''TheLastSamurai.''Indeed, at least one reviewer has called it the "TomCruise DLC."
to:
* ScrappyMechanic: Surpisingly Surprisingly enough for a series this long, there really aren't that many. There is one that mars what is otherwise a brilliant game, Shogun 2.''Shogun 2''. "Realm Divide" basically has Japan ally up and split into two sides when you reach about 15 provinces or so (Out of about 65). These sides consist of you, you and whatever allies you have (until they inevitably backstab you), and the other side consists of everyone else in Japan, [[ChronicBackstabbingDisorder including clans who have been allies with you for years.]] Japan. If you don't think that's unfair enough... each clan arrayed against you is [[TheComputerIsACheatingBastard given multiple gigantic stacks of veteran units every turn.]]
** This is also prevalent inRome ''Rome'' and Medieval 2; ''Medieval 2''; once your empire is large enough, the other factions will gang up on you, often while still remaining at war with one another (yet ([[GangUpOnTheHuman yet not doing anything about it). Empire it]]). ''Empire'' generally fixed these issues, as long as the player was careful not to upset the other factions.
* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' can pretty much pass itself off as a prequel to''TheLastSamurai.''Indeed, ''TheLastSamurai''. Indeed, at least one reviewer has called it the "TomCruise DLC."
** This is also prevalent in
* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' can pretty much pass itself off as a prequel to
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** van Dyck's work in ''Shogun 2'' and its DLCs are no pushovers either.
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** Which leads to a bit of FridgeHorror. Every action you take has the possibility to irreversibly change world history, for better or for worse. Say for instance, you are playing ''Napoleon'' as the British, and you lose your fleet. This causes a chain reaction of events. France then invades Britain, which no longer has a fleet to defend it. France wins the war of the Sixth Coalition due to Britain's absence. France colonizes the world, becomes a superpower, Etc, Nous avons cette conversation en français. See, one slip up can potentially cause disaster in more ways than one!
to:
** Which leads to a bit of FridgeHorror. Every action you take has the possibility to irreversibly change world history, for better or for worse. Say for instance, you are playing ''Napoleon'' as the British, and you lose your fleet. This causes a chain reaction of events. France then invades Britain, which no longer has a fleet to defend it. France wins the war of the Sixth Coalition due to Britain's absence. France colonizes the world, becomes a superpower, Etc, Nous ''Nous avons cette conversation en français. français.'' See, one slip up can potentially cause disaster in more ways than one!
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** Theoretically, one can have incredibly ahistorical wars. Venice's ''mercenari'' troops storming the gates of London to take it from Scotland, Sicilian knights campaigning through the Russian steppes, Spanish knights and Jinetes fighting Mongol horsemen for control of Vienna, Egyptian spearmen climbing the walls of Arhus to fight Danish Vikings, Byzantine spearmen charging through arrows from English longbowmen as they try to take Milan, or [[Fanfic/AScotsmanInEgypt Scottish Highlanders storming Cairo]]. The additional factions in the ''Stainless Steel'' mod take this even further. Ever wanted to see how the Teutonic Knights would do against the Byzantines, or an army of Norwegian troops backed by impressed Scots and Welsh longbows tackling the Fatmid Caliphate over Antioch?
to:
** Theoretically, one can have incredibly ahistorical wars. Venice's ''mercenari'' troops storming the gates of London to take it from Scotland, Sicilian knights campaigning through the Russian steppes, Spanish knights and Jinetes fighting Mongol horsemen for control of Vienna, Egyptian spearmen climbing the walls of Arhus to fight Danish Vikings, Byzantine spearmen charging through arrows from English longbowmen as they try to take Milan, or [[Fanfic/AScotsmanInEgypt Scottish Highlanders storming Cairo]]. The additional factions in the ''Stainless Steel'' mod take this even further. Ever wanted to see how the Teutonic Knights would do against the Byzantines, or an army of Norwegian troops backed by impressed Scots and Welsh longbows tackling the Fatmid Caliphate over Antioch?Antioch?
** And that's not counting the ability to pitch off the different DLCs of ''Shogun 2'' with the factions in the original game. Ever wanted to reenact the final battle in ''TheLastSamurai?'' Now it's possible.
** And that's not counting the ability to pitch off the different DLCs of ''Shogun 2'' with the factions in the original game. Ever wanted to reenact the final battle in ''TheLastSamurai?'' Now it's possible.
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* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the upcoming ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' which is shaping up to be ''TheLastSamurai: The Game''.
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* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the upcoming the ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' which is shaping up can pretty much pass itself off as a prequel to be ''TheLastSamurai: The Game''. ''TheLastSamurai.''Indeed, at least one reviewer has called it the "TomCruise DLC."
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It\'s Jinetes. Jetines, indeed.
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** Theoretically, one can have incredibly ahistorical wars. Venice's ''mercenari'' troops storming the gates of London to take it from Scotland, Sicilian knights campaigning through the Russian steppes, Spanish knights and Jitenes fighting Mongol horsemen for control of Vienna, Egyptian spearmen climbing the walls of Arhus to fight Danish Vikings, Byzantine spearmen charging through arrows from English longbowmen as they try to take Milan, or [[Fanfic/AScotsmanInEgypt Scottish Highlanders storming Cairo]]. The additional factions in the ''Stainless Steel'' mod take this even further. Ever wanted to see how the Teutonic Knights would do against the Byzantines, or an army of Norwegian troops backed by impressed Scots and Welsh longbows tackling the Fatmid Caliphate over Antioch?
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** Theoretically, one can have incredibly ahistorical wars. Venice's ''mercenari'' troops storming the gates of London to take it from Scotland, Sicilian knights campaigning through the Russian steppes, Spanish knights and Jitenes Jinetes fighting Mongol horsemen for control of Vienna, Egyptian spearmen climbing the walls of Arhus to fight Danish Vikings, Byzantine spearmen charging through arrows from English longbowmen as they try to take Milan, or [[Fanfic/AScotsmanInEgypt Scottish Highlanders storming Cairo]]. The additional factions in the ''Stainless Steel'' mod take this even further. Ever wanted to see how the Teutonic Knights would do against the Byzantines, or an army of Norwegian troops backed by impressed Scots and Welsh longbows tackling the Fatmid Caliphate over Antioch?
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* CrowningMomentOfFunny: Often caused by the generals' pre-battle speeches, which are oftentimes dependant on either your enemies or your general's Command rating. One of the most hilarious is done by a Venetian general fighting the Turks.
-->"Either a goat herder and his flock are lost....''(mock shocked tone)'' or the enemy is over there!"
** Or the [[CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys French:]]
-->"They say the French are better lovers than fighters. [[AnythingThatMoves This is true. Ask any pig, cow, or other barnyard animal!"]]
** And a General with the "Awkward Speaker" trait gets hilariously bad speeches sometimes.
-->"So, we are all brave soldiers, uh, I think. And the enemy are over there, and they are very bad people, so I think we should go kill them! And let's not screw this up, and we won't die! Okay, men?"
*** How do you intentionally get this trait?
*** Try opening the console, then typing give_trait (character name) BoringSpeaker, followed by any number from 1 to 3 depending on how severe you want the trait to be.
** If your general is mentally unstable the speech can be down right incomprehensible.
-->"And remember, they may have the Moon People on their side, but we have [[NiceHat lovely hats.]] Those hats will shield us from their fearsome gaze!"
** A general with one of the "cowardly" traits will begin with the usual mighty, impressive, heroic and inspiring speech to his men, and then, right as he is about to reach the climax of his speech....
-->"....Snake? Snakesnakesnakesnakesnake! SNAKE! SNAKE! O MY GOD TAKE IT AWAAAAAAAAAY!"
*** His men still cheer then though.
** A general with one of the "alcoholic" traits will end it by bitching at his men that someone drank all the ale.
-->"I want the pink elephants and green pixies to lead the attack. ''Have you seen my wife?'' Bloody ugly woman. Probably fighting with that lot over there- and we're ''buggered'' if she's on their side. ''Look,'' d'ya wanna fight?"
** The scene: The pope sits before a vast cheering crowd in a cathedral. Cut to a hooded man wielding a crossbow lurking in the shadows, high above. He brings the Pope into his sights, and fires! Screams are heard below, and the assassin flees. Cut back to the pope making the sign of the cross with a bolt sticking out of his NiceHat. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9lWLEMv9FI Video]].
** Apart from the funny to downright stupid speeches the generals make, there are other funny moments that occur in game, for example a [[CannonFodder group of peasants]] charging a [[EliteMooks Legionary 1st Cohort]] on top of a particularly steep hill, getting absolutely butchered by them then having the remnant of the unfortunate warband being chased downhill by around 200+ angry legionaries out for blood..
*** It gets even funnier when the remnant of the warband is just ''one man'' being chased down by 1500 angry Romans.
** While rakes in ''Empire'' only get a still image for their assassination attempt, either of the cutscenes between dueling gentlemen in ''Empire: Total War'' has a touch of dark comedy in their resolution.
*** An example. Both gentlemen spin around to fire... and both their guns don't work. One of them (the one that loses), points the gun at his face to check to it and then pulls the trigger...
*** An alternate version of the last one has the same thing, but when the second one checks his gun, the other throws his gun at the other's face and knocks him out.
** A rather interesting example comes from a [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yMLwe69oRA failed ninja assassination within Shogun Total War: Mongol Invasion, if you attempt to assassinate a mongol general]]... The ninja's end says it all.
*** This and the above video of a failed Papal assassination show that Creative Assembly ''really'' [[RunningGag loves abusing]] {{Nice Hat}}s.
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibAdi-q_EHA Every geisha assassination video ever]]. There's just something hilarious at seeing a dolled-up serving girl killing people without warning [[ImprobableWeaponUser in the most absurd ways]].
** [[BladeOnAStick The pointy end! Use the POINTY end!]]: When you discovered Way of the Spear
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlu7ZleclI Failed ninja assassinations]] in ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. Another ninja running away from guards leaps over a wall, only to realize a heartbeat too late that said wall is bordering a cliff. Yet another tries to sneak past a camp of sleeping soldiers, only to get his leg grabbed by a soldier dreaming he's cuddling a geisha. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]] Clumsiest ninjas ''ever''.
-->"Either a goat herder and his flock are lost....''(mock shocked tone)'' or the enemy is over there!"
** Or the [[CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkeys French:]]
-->"They say the French are better lovers than fighters. [[AnythingThatMoves This is true. Ask any pig, cow, or other barnyard animal!"]]
** And a General with the "Awkward Speaker" trait gets hilariously bad speeches sometimes.
-->"So, we are all brave soldiers, uh, I think. And the enemy are over there, and they are very bad people, so I think we should go kill them! And let's not screw this up, and we won't die! Okay, men?"
*** How do you intentionally get this trait?
*** Try opening the console, then typing give_trait (character name) BoringSpeaker, followed by any number from 1 to 3 depending on how severe you want the trait to be.
** If your general is mentally unstable the speech can be down right incomprehensible.
-->"And remember, they may have the Moon People on their side, but we have [[NiceHat lovely hats.]] Those hats will shield us from their fearsome gaze!"
** A general with one of the "cowardly" traits will begin with the usual mighty, impressive, heroic and inspiring speech to his men, and then, right as he is about to reach the climax of his speech....
-->"....Snake? Snakesnakesnakesnakesnake! SNAKE! SNAKE! O MY GOD TAKE IT AWAAAAAAAAAY!"
*** His men still cheer then though.
** A general with one of the "alcoholic" traits will end it by bitching at his men that someone drank all the ale.
-->"I want the pink elephants and green pixies to lead the attack. ''Have you seen my wife?'' Bloody ugly woman. Probably fighting with that lot over there- and we're ''buggered'' if she's on their side. ''Look,'' d'ya wanna fight?"
** The scene: The pope sits before a vast cheering crowd in a cathedral. Cut to a hooded man wielding a crossbow lurking in the shadows, high above. He brings the Pope into his sights, and fires! Screams are heard below, and the assassin flees. Cut back to the pope making the sign of the cross with a bolt sticking out of his NiceHat. [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9lWLEMv9FI Video]].
** Apart from the funny to downright stupid speeches the generals make, there are other funny moments that occur in game, for example a [[CannonFodder group of peasants]] charging a [[EliteMooks Legionary 1st Cohort]] on top of a particularly steep hill, getting absolutely butchered by them then having the remnant of the unfortunate warband being chased downhill by around 200+ angry legionaries out for blood..
*** It gets even funnier when the remnant of the warband is just ''one man'' being chased down by 1500 angry Romans.
** While rakes in ''Empire'' only get a still image for their assassination attempt, either of the cutscenes between dueling gentlemen in ''Empire: Total War'' has a touch of dark comedy in their resolution.
*** An example. Both gentlemen spin around to fire... and both their guns don't work. One of them (the one that loses), points the gun at his face to check to it and then pulls the trigger...
*** An alternate version of the last one has the same thing, but when the second one checks his gun, the other throws his gun at the other's face and knocks him out.
** A rather interesting example comes from a [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yMLwe69oRA failed ninja assassination within Shogun Total War: Mongol Invasion, if you attempt to assassinate a mongol general]]... The ninja's end says it all.
*** This and the above video of a failed Papal assassination show that Creative Assembly ''really'' [[RunningGag loves abusing]] {{Nice Hat}}s.
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibAdi-q_EHA Every geisha assassination video ever]]. There's just something hilarious at seeing a dolled-up serving girl killing people without warning [[ImprobableWeaponUser in the most absurd ways]].
** [[BladeOnAStick The pointy end! Use the POINTY end!]]: When you discovered Way of the Spear
** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlu7ZleclI Failed ninja assassinations]] in ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. Another ninja running away from guards leaps over a wall, only to realize a heartbeat too late that said wall is bordering a cliff. Yet another tries to sneak past a camp of sleeping soldiers, only to get his leg grabbed by a soldier dreaming he's cuddling a geisha. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]] Clumsiest ninjas ''ever''.
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Moving to Awesome tab.
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* CrowningMomentOfAwesome: You are fully capable of pulling these off with your armies. Mostly denoted when the end-of-battle statistics pop up with the words "HEROIC VICTORY" splayed across the top.
** Very possible to capture a castle and defend it the very next turn against an army two or three times the size of your defenders simply through smart placement and movement of defending units. It's also extremely satisfying.
** Very possible to capture a castle and defend it the very next turn against an army two or three times the size of your defenders simply through smart placement and movement of defending units. It's also extremely satisfying.
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4pbnFzNwk Mare Nostrum]], the Mobilisation theme for Mediterranean factions in Medieval II.
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* SpiritualLicensee: Given the scales, time periods and battles involved, the Total War games tend to be reminiscent of various movies. More specifically, you've got ''Rome,'' which is reminiscent of ''{{Gladiator}},'' and the upcoming ''Shogun 2'' DLC ''Fall of the Samurai,'' which is shaping up to be ''TheLastSamurai: The Game''.
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** Which leads to a bit of FridgeHorror. Every action you take has the possibility to irreversibly change world history, for better or for worse. Say for instance, you are playing ''Napolean'' as the British, and you lose your fleet. This causes a chain reaction of events. France then invades Britain, which no longer has a fleet to defend it. France wins the war of the Sixth Coalition due to Britain's absence. France colonizes the world, becomes a superpower, Etc, Nous avons cette conversation en français. See, one slip up can potentially cause disaster in more ways than one!
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** Which leads to a bit of FridgeHorror. Every action you take has the possibility to irreversibly change world history, for better or for worse. Say for instance, you are playing ''Napolean'' ''Napoleon'' as the British, and you lose your fleet. This causes a chain reaction of events. France then invades Britain, which no longer has a fleet to defend it. France wins the war of the Sixth Coalition due to Britain's absence. France colonizes the world, becomes a superpower, Etc, Nous avons cette conversation en français. See, one slip up can potentially cause disaster in more ways than one!
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** Very possible to capture a castle and defend it the very next turn against an army two or three times the size of your defenders simply through smart placement and movement of defending units. It's also extremely satisfying.
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** Another from Shogun 2: [[FunetikAksent MASTA, WE R NOT MAKING ENUFF OF DA TRADE INFRASTRATUR IN DIS PROBINZ. IP WE APGRED OUR ROAD SYSTEMS, AND PAWTS, WE ALLAO A GREATA AMOUNT OF TRADE TO PASS ALONG, AND TRU DHEM.]]
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** The Ashikaga Shogunate from Shogun II will declare war on you in the [[OhCrap Realm Divide]] event once you get 16 provinces; 12 if you are playing on a high difficulty. Every other clan will join them, so if you aren't prepared you are going to get crushed.
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** Failed ninja assassinations in ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. Another ninja running away from guards leaps over a wall, only to realize a heartbeat too late that said wall is bordering a cliff. Yet another tries to sneak past a camp of sleeping soldiers, only to get his leg grabbed by a soldier dreaming he's cuddling a geisha. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]] Clumsiest ninjas ''ever''.
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** [[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMlu7ZleclI Failed ninja assassinations assassinations]] in ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. Another ninja running away from guards leaps over a wall, only to realize a heartbeat too late that said wall is bordering a cliff. Yet another tries to sneak past a camp of sleeping soldiers, only to get his leg grabbed by a soldier dreaming he's cuddling a geisha. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]] Clumsiest ninjas ''ever''.
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** Failed ninja assassinations in ''Shogun'' and ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]]
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** Failed ninja assassinations in ''Shogun'' and ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. Another ninja running away from guards leaps over a wall, only to realize a heartbeat too late that said wall is bordering a cliff. Yet another tries to sneak past a camp of sleeping soldiers, only to get his leg grabbed by a soldier dreaming he's cuddling a geisha. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]]]] Clumsiest ninjas ''ever''.
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** Failed ninja assassinations in ''Shogun'' and ''Shogun II''. A ninja tries to jump down on a target from above, only to miss and totally faceplant. Another slips down on a target from overhead and slit his throat, only to have his sword slip out of its sheath and alert the target. Another tries to climb up to the top of a castle, only to get stuck trying to climb through an arrow slit and get pushed out by a laughing guard. But the king of them has to be the ninja trying to deliver a running, leaping kick to his target's back to knock him over a railing, only to [[EpicFail miss and go tumbling to his death.]]
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* DemonicSpiders: in chronological order:
** Geisha Assassins that have turned rogue in ''Shogun''. The AI for Ronin/Peasants makes them rampage through nearby targets, they'll just start slaughtering the general and the replacements for the nearest enemy army, if it moves, then they continue on to the next target.
** Moving back in time, or forward in terms of games, Horse Archers in ''Rome: Total War'' count too. In ''Medieval II'', they've largely been nerfed to the level of GoddamnBats as your knights can generally beat them; their true threat is to infantry armies or armies weak in cavalry. Horse archers in Rome can be countered by archers or cavalry, or by really heavy infantry who can soak up the missiles, so they're not that dangerous... unless you're unfortunate enough to deploy mainly phalanxes.
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular. Medieval II's Mongol horde was manageable if you had the right units in your army (lots of light and heavy cavalry.) In the first game, the Mongols got dropped in Khwarezm with about 10,000 men, ''far'' more soldiers than any one faction is liable to possess by that time. They made the Russian High Era start the hardest faction in the game. Don't get us wrong though; the Mongols of II are ''not'' to be messed with... and that applies to the ones who turn up in Shogun I too...
** While we're striding on to Medieval II... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor ...of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
** The Ashikaga Shogunate from Shogun II will declare war on you in the [[OhCrap Realm Divide]] event once you get 16 provinces; 12 if you are playing on a high difficulty. Every other clan will join them, so if you aren't prepared you are going to get crushed.
** Geisha Assassins that have turned rogue in ''Shogun''. The AI for Ronin/Peasants makes them rampage through nearby targets, they'll just start slaughtering the general and the replacements for the nearest enemy army, if it moves, then they continue on to the next target.
** Moving back in time, or forward in terms of games, Horse Archers in ''Rome: Total War'' count too. In ''Medieval II'', they've largely been nerfed to the level of GoddamnBats as your knights can generally beat them; their true threat is to infantry armies or armies weak in cavalry. Horse archers in Rome can be countered by archers or cavalry, or by really heavy infantry who can soak up the missiles, so they're not that dangerous... unless you're unfortunate enough to deploy mainly phalanxes.
** The entire Mongol faction, the Mongols in the first game in particular. Medieval II's Mongol horde was manageable if you had the right units in your army (lots of light and heavy cavalry.) In the first game, the Mongols got dropped in Khwarezm with about 10,000 men, ''far'' more soldiers than any one faction is liable to possess by that time. They made the Russian High Era start the hardest faction in the game. Don't get us wrong though; the Mongols of II are ''not'' to be messed with... and that applies to the ones who turn up in Shogun I too...
** While we're striding on to Medieval II... '''Inquisitors'''. If you don't want these jerks killing your entire royal family and all your diplomats and merchants, you'd better have plenty of assassins on hand, because that's the ''only'' way to deal with them ([[http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=7636371#post7636371 other than putting them in a glass then stepping on them]]). For that matter, the whole damn Catholic Church is a Demonic Spider ([[SouthPark no pun]]). The Papal favor rates are entirely random to start with, and are almost entirely random throughout the game, as you can LOSE favor for not building enough churches, or even while building plenty of churches. It can get to a point where you can be struggling merely to exist, and the Pope will FORCE you to devote your glorious faction leader to a pointless Crusade of Buttfuck, Nowhere or else be excommunicated. Even worse is when another Catholic faction decides it wants your land, attacks you, you attack it back, manage to retake your land, then while you're besieging your old capital, the Pope tells you to STOP FIGHTING WITH SAID FACTION and that if you attack them again within 10 turns, you will be EXCOMMUNICATED! Even just taking back your old capital will get you punished, and in the end THEY will get off with HUGE Papal favor ...of course, if you know how to take advantage of the Papcy's crazy mindset, you can actually turn the tables right back on the other Catholic nations. Sure, the Pope will order you to hold off on attacking your enemies, but he won't bat an eye at you maneuvering an army into their territory and parking it right outside their city, and attacking the moment the enforced truce ends. The real trick to beating most Catholic nations is to launch coordinated assaults on multiple cities at once, or if you're man enough, just power through the excommunication. It's only a 20% penalty to public order, anyway....
** The Ashikaga Shogunate from Shogun II will declare war on you in the [[OhCrap Realm Divide]] event once you get 16 provinces; 12 if you are playing on a high difficulty. Every other clan will join them, so if you aren't prepared you are going to get crushed.
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