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Not ymmv
Changed line(s) 7,8 (click to see context) from:
* RuleAbidingRebel: Inverted, Anne believes she would have been happier marrying Captain Wentworth from the beginning even if he had never made a penny, and the narrator points out that two unsuitable young people in love are usually able to get married, never mind two mature people with one independent fortune between them.
* StoicWoobie: Anne.
* StoicWoobie: Anne.
to:
*
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* CommonKnowledge: Numerous people have misremembered Wentworth as having been a lieutenant when he originally proposed to Anne. He was actually a commander[[note]]commanders would have their own ship, but they commanded smaller vessels than post-captains[[/note]] who had recently been promoted ''from'' lieutenant, and had not yet been appointed to a ship.
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** Anne finds several reasons to mistrust Mr. Elliot's current pretensions of familial loyalty and propriety. One of them is that he's known to travel freely on Sundays. Back in those extremely Christian days, it was highly improper for a gentleman to flout the Sabbath like that.
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** She was correct to yield to (what she sees as parental) persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
to:
** She was correct to yield to (what she sees as parental) persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end. Although modern sensibilities towards marriage have changed, at the time women had considerably fewer rights, therefore Anne being told to find someone with better prospects in order to protect herself and livelihood seems wholly practical if misguided.
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* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlessly debated.
to:
* AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation:
** Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlesslydebated. debated.
** Some critics have suggested that Mary's attitude results from MiddleChildSyndrome and a belief that she can only get attention by complaining.
** Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlessly
** Some critics have suggested that Mary's attitude results from MiddleChildSyndrome and a belief that she can only get attention by complaining.
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moving to main
Deleted line(s) 5 (click to see context) :
* ShipToShipCombat: [[ShipperOnDeck In-universe]] - Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
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* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgrove.
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on Louisa's near-fatal fall from the importance Cobb breakwall is very obviously in service of yielding the author's point re: strength of character needing to persuasion be tempered by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgrove.prudence.
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Removed "Sympathetic Sue", since it is now a Flame Bait example that should not be allowed; see "Flame Bait" page for more details.
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlessly debated.
to:
* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: AlternativeCharacterInterpretation: Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlessly debated.
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
* StoicWoobie: Anne
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
to:
* StoicWoobie: Anne
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."Anne.
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
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At no point is Benwick supposed to be \'clinically depressed\' — just, it\'s strongly hinted, wallowing in grief for his beloved fiancee. The fact that he\'s \'cured\' so apparently quickly is intended to indicate how shallow his feelings really were, which is what Harville is understandably upset about.
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
to:
** Real women must She was correct to yield to (what she sees as parental) persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
Deleted line(s) 11,12 (click to see context) :
** Or, alternatively, female/family attachments matter before romantic ones (seeing as her boyfriend was giving her 'persuasion' of exactly the opposite nature, her dilemma wasn't whether she yielded to persuasion, but to whose.)
** Captain Harville would seriously rather see his good friend and almost-brother-in-law continue to suffer from clinical depression than see him marry another woman?
** Captain Harville would seriously rather see his good friend and almost-brother-in-law continue to suffer from clinical depression than see him marry another woman?
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Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
** Or, alternatively, female/family attachments matter before romantic ones (seeing as her boyfriend was giving her 'persuasion' of exactly the opposite nature, her dilemma wasn't whether she yielded to persuasion, but to whose.)
to:
** Or, alternatively, female/family attachments matter before romantic ones (seeing as her boyfriend was giving her 'persuasion' of exactly the opposite nature, her dilemma wasn't whether she yielded to persuasion, but to whose.))
** Captain Harville would seriously rather see his good friend and almost-brother-in-law continue to suffer from clinical depression than see him marry another woman?
** Captain Harville would seriously rather see his good friend and almost-brother-in-law continue to suffer from clinical depression than see him marry another woman?
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* AlternateCharacterInterpretation: Anne's statements on the subject of persuasion are endlessly debated.
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Mr Elliot doesn\'t qualify as a Complete Monster. His crimes are not heinous enough and he shows real affection. Examples for Complete Monster must be approved by tropers\' hive mind. See this thread
.
.Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.
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Deleted line(s) 3,6 (click to see context) :
* CrowningMomentOfFunny: The description from Chapter 6 of the deceased Richard Musgrove:
-->"[Richard] had, in fact... been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done any thing to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead."
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: The look on Captain Wentworth's face when Anne joins him by the captain's wheel in the 1995 film version. Ciaran Hinds conveys volumes with one soft smile.
-->"[Richard] had, in fact... been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done any thing to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead."
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.
* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: The look on Captain Wentworth's face when Anne joins him by the captain's wheel in the 1995 film version. Ciaran Hinds conveys volumes with one soft smile.
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* ShipToShipCombat: In-universe - Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
to:
* ShipToShipCombat: In-universe [[ShipperOnDeck In-universe]] - Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* ShipToShipCombat: Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
to:
* ShipToShipCombat: In-universe - Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
to:
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgro
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa MusgroMusgrove.
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* CrowningMomentOfHeartwarming: The look on Captain Wentworth's face when Anne joins him by the captain's wheel in the 1995 film version. Ciaran Hinds conveys volumes with one soft smile.
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Deleted line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
** Well there's nothing saying [[spoiler: Sir Walter]] won't marry now that he's more open to it and he has little money so [[spoiler: Elliot]] is only getting a title.
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* ValuesDissonance: Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
to:
* ValuesDissonance: ValuesDissonance:
** Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
** Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
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Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
to:
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me.""
* ValuesDissonance: Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
-->"I must believe that I was right, much as I suffered from it, that I was perfectly right in being guided by the friend whom you will love better than you do now. To me, she was in the place of a parent. Do not mistake me, however. I am not saying that she did not err in her advice. ... But I mean, that I was right in submitting to her, ... and if I mistake not, a strong sense of duty is no bad part of a woman's portion."
** Or, alternatively, female/family attachments matter before romantic ones (seeing as her boyfriend was giving her 'persuasion' of exactly the opposite nature, her dilemma wasn't whether she yielded to persuasion, but to whose.)
* ValuesDissonance: Real women must yield to persuasion, regardless of the value of the counsel, decides Anne towards the end.
-->"I must believe that I was right, much as I suffered from it, that I was perfectly right in being guided by the friend whom you will love better than you do now. To me, she was in the place of a parent. Do not mistake me, however. I am not saying that she did not err in her advice. ... But I mean, that I was right in submitting to her, ... and if I mistake not, a strong sense of duty is no bad part of a woman's portion."
** Or, alternatively, female/family attachments matter before romantic ones (seeing as her boyfriend was giving her 'persuasion' of exactly the opposite nature, her dilemma wasn't whether she yielded to persuasion, but to whose.)
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* StoicWoobie: Anne
to:
* StoicWoobie: AnneAnne
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
* SympatheticSue: Anne -- Austen herself admitted that she was a "heroine [who] is almost too good for me."
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None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* ShipToShipCombat: Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
to:
* ShipToShipCombat: Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them.""
* StoicWoobie: Anne
* StoicWoobie: Anne
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* RuleAbidingRebel: Inverted, Anne believes she would have been happier marrying Captain Wentworth from the beginning even if he had never made a penny, and the narrator points out that two unsuitable young people in love are usually able to get married, never mind two mature people with one independent fortune between them.
to:
* RuleAbidingRebel: Inverted, Anne believes she would have been happier marrying Captain Wentworth from the beginning even if he had never made a penny, and the narrator points out that two unsuitable young people in love are usually able to get married, never mind two mature people with one independent fortune between them.
* ShipToShipCombat: Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
* ShipToShipCombat: Charles Musgrove is a Louisa Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper; his wife Mary is a Henrietta Musgrove/Captain Wentworth shipper. Things almost get ugly between them over this. There were deeper implications. Mary really didn't want Henrietta to "throw herself away" on country curate Charles Hayter. It is, after all, very inconvenient to be "giving bad connections to those who have not been used to them."
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** Well there's nothing saying [[spoiler: Sir Walter]] won't marry now that he's more open to it and he has little money so [[spoiler: Elliot]] is only getting a title.
to:
** Well there's nothing saying [[spoiler: Sir Walter]] won't marry now that he's more open to it and he has little money so [[spoiler: Elliot]] is only getting a title.title.
* RuleAbidingRebel: Inverted, Anne believes she would have been happier marrying Captain Wentworth from the beginning even if he had never made a penny, and the narrator points out that two unsuitable young people in love are usually able to get married, never mind two mature people with one independent fortune between them.
* RuleAbidingRebel: Inverted, Anne believes she would have been happier marrying Captain Wentworth from the beginning even if he had never made a penny, and the narrator points out that two unsuitable young people in love are usually able to get married, never mind two mature people with one independent fortune between them.
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Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.
to:
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.HaveAGayOldTime.
* EsotericHappyEnding: Anne learns near the end of the book that [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]] is rather an unpleasant person, and is trying to ensure his inheritance of [[spoiler:Sir Walter]]'s title by any means necessary. By the end of the story, he... is closer to his goal, since [[spoiler:Sir Walter]] and [[spoiler:Mrs Clay]] are no longer a couple and thus won't produce an heir. Anne and her friends get their happy endings, but the inheritance is still destined for someone rather awful.
** Well there's nothing saying [[spoiler: Sir Walter]] won't marry now that he's more open to it and he has little money so [[spoiler: Elliot]] is only getting a title.
* EsotericHappyEnding: Anne learns near the end of the book that [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]] is rather an unpleasant person, and is trying to ensure his inheritance of [[spoiler:Sir Walter]]'s title by any means necessary. By the end of the story, he... is closer to his goal, since [[spoiler:Sir Walter]] and [[spoiler:Mrs Clay]] are no longer a couple and thus won't produce an heir. Anne and her friends get their happy endings, but the inheritance is still destined for someone rather awful.
** Well there's nothing saying [[spoiler: Sir Walter]] won't marry now that he's more open to it and he has little money so [[spoiler: Elliot]] is only getting a title.
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
to:
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.Lyme.
* CrowningMomentOfFunny: The description from Chapter 6 of the deceased Richard Musgrove:
-->"[Richard] had, in fact... been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done any thing to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead."
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.
* CrowningMomentOfFunny: The description from Chapter 6 of the deceased Richard Musgrove:
-->"[Richard] had, in fact... been nothing better than a thick-headed, unfeeling, unprofitable Dick Musgrove, who had never done any thing to entitle himself to more than the abbreviation of his name, living or dead."
::Which was nothing more nor less at the time than a riff on 'Dick' being a low-class nickname...and is now a good example of HaveAGayOldTime.
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgrove for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
to:
* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgrove Musgro
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
* CompleteMonster: [[spoiler:Mr Elliot]], at least by JaneAusten standards. Mrs Smith describes him as "a man without heart or conscience; a designing, wary, cold-blooded being... would be guilty of any cruelty... totally beyond the reach of any sentiment of justice or compassion... black at heart, hollow and black!" He really does come across as a bit of a sociopath in the text.ve for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
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* {{Anvilicious}}: The text emphasizes its message on the importance of yielding to persuasion by brutally physically punishing Louisa Musgrove for ''not'' yielding to persuasion at Lyme.
