History YMMV / OldWorldofDarkness

* BrokenBase: The MetaPlot. Even now almost ten years after the fact the fanbase is STILL split as to whether or not it made the setting as a whole more interesting, or [[{{RailRoading}} unnecessarily shoehorned players and storytellers to utilize rules updates that reflect the changes to the setting]] just to buy more books or worse, [[{{DroppedABridgeOnHim}} out right destroyed many intersting player options and NPCs]] [[{{StuffedInTheFridge}} just to create drama and angst.]] This has led to [[{{InternetBackdraft}} full on edition wars]] because of it.

* ContinuityLockOut: As time went on, the backstory became increasingly thick and convoluted. The {{Metaplot}} did not help matters. The NewWorldOfDarkness was created because this issue began negatively affecting sales.

* NightmareFuel: Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in ''Vampire'', the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in ''Werewolf'', the Nephandi and Marauders in ''Mage'', the Spectres and Oblivion in ''Wraith'', the Shadow Court in ''Changeling'', the Akuma and Yama Kings in ''Kindred Of The East''... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT NightmareFuel.
*** More specific examples from oWoD: the Nosferatu, the Nicktuku (NightmareFuel ''even to the Nosferatu''), Followers of Set, the Giovanni, the Tzimisce and (to some extent) the Malkavians in ''Vampire'', the Bane Mummies in ''Werewolf'' and the Earthbound (and pretty much ''any'' high-Torment fallen) in ''Demon''.
* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[{{EthnicScrappy}} World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[{{UnfortunateImplications}} provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how to role play offensive stereotypes.

* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[{{EthnicScrappy}} World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[{{UnfortunateImplications}} provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how role play offensive stereotypes.

* BaseBreaker: The MetaPlot. Even now almost ten years after the fact the fanbase is STILL split as to whether or not it made the setting as a whole more interesting, or [[{{RailRoading}} unnecessarily shoehorned players and storytellers to utilize rules updates that reflect the changes to the setting]] just to buy more books or worse, [[{{DroppedABridgeOnHim}} out right destroyed many intersting player options and NPCs]] [[{{StuffedInTheFridge}} just to create drama and angst.]] This has led to [[{{InternetBackdraft}} full on edition wars]] because of it.

* GodModeSue[=/=]VillainSue: Samuel Haight, a werewolf[=/=]ghoul[=/=]mage with nigh immunity to Paradox and the ability to VillainExitStageLeft at the end of an adventure. He's often considered the pinnacle of [[{{Munchkin}} Munchkinry]]. The writers eventually wised up and gave him a TakeThatScrappy ending: An artifact he was using exploded due to Paradox, killing him and sending him to [[TabletopGame/WraithTheOblivion the Shadowlands]], where he was soulforged into an ashtray.
** The Antediluvians probably count as well. Their powers are literally described as 'plot devise' and their coming is often described as TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt. Just one of them was enough to kick start [[{{CrisisCrossover}} world changing events for several game lines]] . The Ancient in question was depicted waging a war against werewolves, spirits, ancient vampires and taking [[{{TheresNoKillLikeOverkill}} three freaking nukes to the face]] and still kept going. Compare that to the average player character and its starts looking pretty suetiful.

** The Antediluvians probably count as well. Their powers are literally described as 'plot devise' and their coming is often described as TheEndOfTheWorldAsWeKnowIt. Just one of them was enough to kick start [[{{CrisisCrossover}} world changing events for several game lines]] . One of them was depicted waging a war against werewolves, spirits, ancient vampires and taking [[{{TheresNoKillLikeOverkill}} three freaking nukes to the face]] and still kept going. Compare that to the average player character and its starts looking pretty suetiful.

* GodModeSue[=/=]VillainSue: Samuel Haight, a werewolf[=/=]ghoul[=/=]mage with nigh immunity to Paradox and the ability to VillainExitStageLeft at the end of an adventure. He's often considered the pinnacle of [[{{Munchkin}} Munchkinry]]. The writers eventually wised up and gave him a TakeThatScrappy ending: An artifact he was using exploded due to Paradox, killing him and sending him to [[TabletopGame/WraithTheOblivion the Shadowlands]], where he was soulforged into an ashtray.* NightmareFuel: Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in ''Vampire'', the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in ''Werewolf'', the Nephandi and Marauders in ''Mage'', the Spectres and Oblivion in ''Wraith'', the Shadow Court in ''Changeling'', the Akuma and Yama Kings in ''Kindred Of The East''... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT NightmareFuel.

* NightmareFuel: Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in ''Vampire'', the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in ''Werewolf'', the Nephandi and Marauders in ''Mage'', the Spectres and Oblivion in ''Wraith'', the Shadow Court in ''Changeling'', the Akuma and Yama Kings in ''Kindred Of The East''... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT NightmareFuel.

* VillainSue: Samuel Haight, a werewolf[=/=]ghoul[=/=]mage with nigh immunity to Paradox and the ability to VillainExitStageLeft at the end of an adventure. He's often considered the pinnacle of [[{{Munchkin}} Munchkinry]]. The writers eventually wised up and gave him a TakeThatScrappy ending: An artifact he was using exploded due to Paradox, killing him and sending him to [[TabletopGame/WraithTheOblivion the Shadowlands]], where he was soulforged into an ashtray.

* OldShame: Has an entire supplement as one in the form of [[{{EthnicScrappy}} World of Darkness: Gypsies]]. The goal of the book was to give the players the feel of the mythical Gypsies from the old Hammer/Universal Studios horror movies set in the modern day. The kind that travel around in caravans wear scarfs and bright colors, [[{{UnfortunateImplications}}provide "exotic" romances, trick people and steal their stuff, and deliver terrible curses on those wrong them...]] Never mind the fact that Romani are actual real life people and the supplement as a whole kind of read more like a primer on how role play offensive stereotypes.

* CanonSue: Strong presence of {{Canon Sue}}s is responsible for many of the negative reactions to the old WOD's metaplot.
** The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death]] [[AndIMustScream and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard. Only in W20 did Onyx Path make an adventure where his [[TheDragon second-in-command]] becomes a much-weaker reincarnation that players could [[CatharsisFactor finally kill]].
*** Also, there's the literal part of the Curse of Caine - the whole sevenfold vengeance thing causes any victory to become an [[OneHitKill instant 700% backlash against the victor]].

* VillainSue: the Old WOD was often heavily criticised for having incredibly overpowered antagonists and side characters, who had the potential to [[{{GMPC}} make the players irrelevant]]. Samuel Haight was the worst: the books actually told Storytellers to make sure that the [=PCs=] don't have a chance to defeat him.

* UnfortunateImplications: ''World of Darkness: Gypsies'' portrayed the Roma peoples as having magical powers tied to how "pure" their blood was.

** The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death]] [[AndIMustScream and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard. Only in W20 did Onyx Path make an adventure where his [[TheDragon second-in-command]] becomes a much-weaker incarnation that players could finally kill.

** The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death]] [[AndIMustScream and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard.

** The "Rules for Fighting Caine" solely consist of "You Lose." He is supposed to be so powerful, the game system literally cannot model him.

* CanonSue: Strong presence of {{Canon Sue}}s is responsible for many of the negative reactions to the old WOD's metaplot. The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death]] [[AndIMustScream and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard.
** The "Rules for Fighting Caine" solely consist of "You Lose."
*** Caine is supposed to be so powerful, the game system literally cannot model him.

* HighOctaneNightmareFuel: Goes without saying. In fact, it was used so much that all the formerly scary guys became boring and mundane, turning it into NightmareRetardant.
** Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in Vampire, the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in Werewolf, the Nephandi and Marauders in Mage, the Spectres and Oblivion in Wraith, the Shadow Court in Changeling, the Akuma and Yama Kings in Kindred Of The East... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT HighOctaneNightmareFuel.
*** More specific examples from oWoD: the Nosferatu, the Nicktuku (HighOctaneNightmareFuel ''even to the Nosferatu''), Followers of Set, the Giovanni, the Tzimisce and (to some extent) the Malkavians in Vampire, the Bane Mummies in Werewolf and the Earthbound (and pretty much ''any'' high-Torment fallen) in Demon.
* UnfortunateImplications: The oWoD has truckloads. ''World of Darkness: Gypsies'' portrayed the Roma peoples as having magical powers tied to how "pure" their blood was.

** Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in Vampire, the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in Werewolf, the Nephandi and Marauders in Mage, the Spectres and Oblivion in Wraith, the Unseelie Court in Changeling, the Akuma and Yama Kings in Kindred Of The East... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT HighOctaneNightmareFuel.

* CanonSue: Strong presence of {{Canon Sue}}s is responsible for many of the negative reactions to the old WOD's metaplot. The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death]] [[AndIMustScream and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] [[MissedMomentOfAwesome instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard.]]

* VillainSue: the Old WOD was often heavily criticised for having incredibly overpowered antagonists and side characters, who had the potential to [[{{GMPC}} make the players irrelevant]]. Samuel Haight was the worst: the books actually told Storytellers to make sure that the PCs don't have a chance to defeat him.

* UnpleasableFanbase: The Camarilla, White Wolf's official fan club, constantly has this problem with its global {{LARP}} game. It's extremely difficult to enforce an interpretation of the rules that will please TheRoleplayer, TheRealMan, ''and'' TheMunchkin (and [[StopHavingFunGuys no one wants to please]] TheLoonie: the WorldOfDarkness is SeriousBusiness). Might even qualify as a BrokenBase since the two most vocal factions are [[TheRoleplayer The Roleplayers]] and [[TheRealMan Real Men]]/[[TheMunchkin Munchkins]].

* NightmareFuel: Goes without saying. In fact, it was used so much that all the formerly scary guys became boring and mundane, turning it into NightmareRetardant.
** Specific examples in the Old WOD: the Baali and the Sabbat in Vampire, the Black Spiral Dancers and the Wyrm in Werewolf, the Nephandi and Marauders (and MAYBE the Euthanatos) in Mage, the Spectres and Oblivion in Wraith, the Unseelie Court in Changeling, the Akuma and Yama Kings in Kindred Of The East... It's pretty much easier mentioning which factions are NOT NightmareFuel.
*** More specific examples from oWoD: the Nosferatu, the Nicktuku (HighOctaneNightmareFuel, really, since they are NightmareFuel ''even to the Nosferatu''), Followers of Set, the Giovanni, the Tzimisce and (to some extent) the Malkavians in Vampire, the Bane Mummies in Werewolf and the Earthbound (and pretty much ''any'' high-Torment fallen) in Demon.

* UnpleasableFanbase: The Camarilla, White Wolf's official fan club, constantly has this problem with its global {{LARP}} game. It's extremely difficult to enforce an interpretation of the rules that will please TheRoleplayer, TheRealMan, ''and'' TheMunchkin (and [[StopHavingFunGuys no one wants to please]] TheLoonie: the WorldOfDarkness is SeriousBusiness). Might even qualify as a BrokenBase since the two most vocal factions are [[TheRoleplayer The Roleplayers]] and [[TheRealMan Real Men]]/[[TheMunchkin Munchkins]].

* CanonSue: Strong presence of {{CanonSue}}s is responsible for many of the negative reactions to the old WOD's metaplot. The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] [[MissedMomentOfAwesome instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard.]]

*** Also, there's the literal part of the Curse of Caine - the whole sevenfold vengeance thing causes any victory to become an [[OneHitKO instant 700% backlash against the victor]].

*** Also, there's the literal part of the Curse of Caine - the whole sevenfold vengeance thing causes any victory to become an instant 700% backlash against the victor.

* FanWank -- Several actually got noticed by the authors and mentioned derisively in the canon, among them a male offshoot of a female only Vampire bloodline, and a "pact" or "understanding" between Gangrel and werewolves, undermining [[FurAgainstFang the usual state of affairs]].

* CanonSue (Strong presence of {{CanonSue}}s is responsible for many of the negative reactions to the old WOD's metaplot. The most hated example was probably [[VillainSue Samuel Haight]]. Many people vilified him for turning from an almost normal human to, in effect, a [[NinjaPirateZombieRobot ghoul-werewolf-true mage]] combination, breaking quite a few of the rules that [[HybridOverkillAvoidance forbid such hijinks to player characters]] in the process. Then the authors made him an [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption untouchable, unstoppable villain]] in adventures where he appears, going as far as specifically reminding gamemasters to save his bacon from the fire at all costs if players manage to corner him somehow. No wonder that almost everyone hated Sam Haight. [[AuthorsSavingThrow When authors finally figured this out, they killed him by an overpowered vampire, turned him into a normal run-of-the-mill wraith after death and got him soulforged into an ashtray]] [[MissedMomentOfAwesome instead of giving players an opportunity to get the bastard.]])

* NightmareFuel (Goes without saying)

* ContinuitySnarl: There were quite a few retcons and quite a few mistakes. It's difficult to tell which is which.