History YMMV / CapcomVSSNK2MarkOfTheMillennium

25th Jul '16 10:32:54 AM X2X
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* GameBreaker: [[GoodBadBugs Roll canceling]] [[note]]quickly canceling the first three frames of any ground roll into a special or super; on top of this, the inputted move gains the properties of the roll, meaning that the RC'd move is invincible (although it ''can'' be thrown out of if the move isn't airborne or a move that already has invincible properties such as a DP)[[/note]]. In fact, during the 2002 EVO tourney (in which 20 Japanese players attended), most of the Americans didn't learn to employ roll canceling; most of the Japanese players did, leading to Japan dominating the standings (the only top U.S. finishers were 3rd and a two-man tie for 7th), with [[FightingGameCommunity/FGCAces Tokido]] blowing up not only the other Japanese finalist (Nuki), but America's top placer (Ken, who ''did'' know how to roll cancel). What mitigates [=RCing=]'s claim as a GameBreaker (even if slightly) is that, aside of the practice necessary to perfect its execution, the skill is available to every character, some of whom can benefit from its effects when faced with a bad match-up. Roll canceling has widely been accepted as a legitimate factor in high-level play since. In fact, their removal in the [=GameCube=] and Xbox versions (''EO'') is one of the reasons those ports weren't received as well as the [=PS2=] and Dreamcast ones.

to:

* GameBreaker: [[GoodBadBugs Roll canceling]] [[note]]quickly canceling the first three frames of any ground roll into a special or super; on top of this, the inputted move gains the properties of the roll, meaning that the RC'd move is invincible (although it ''can'' be thrown out of if the move isn't airborne or a move that already has invincible properties such as a DP)[[/note]]. In fact, during the 2002 EVO tourney (in which 20 Japanese players attended), most of the Americans didn't learn to employ roll canceling; most of the Japanese players did, ''did'', leading to Japan dominating the standings (the only top U.S. finishers were 3rd and a two-man tie for 7th), with [[FightingGameCommunity/FGCAces Tokido]] blowing up not only the other Japanese finalist (Nuki), but America's top placer (Ken, who ''did'' know how to roll cancel). What mitigates [=RCing=]'s claim as a GameBreaker (even if slightly) is that, aside of the practice necessary to perfect its execution, the skill is available to every character, some of whom can benefit from its effects when faced with a bad match-up. Roll canceling has widely been accepted as a legitimate factor in high-level play since. In fact, their removal in the [=GameCube=] and Xbox versions (''EO'') is one of the reasons those ports weren't received as well as the [=PS2=] and Dreamcast ones.



* ScrappyMechanic: S-Groove is hated by many, since it's the weakest Groove for a ''lot'' (over 2/3) of the cast. P-Groove is a close second, but there are still plenty of high-level players who make it work in their favor.

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* ScrappyMechanic: S-Groove is hated by many, since it's the weakest Groove for a ''lot'' (over 2/3) of the cast. Good S-Groove users are rare to come across, [[http://combovid.com/?p=2724 but those who do favor it are incredibly solid when it comes to defensive play.]] (One of the standout cases is Dr. B, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fC2I52MQIc who made Daigo work for his win in their EVO 2003 match.]]) P-Groove is a close second, but there are still plenty of high-level players who make it work in their favor.
25th Jul '16 10:20:31 AM X2X
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* CharacterTiers: In a case which can be likened to that of ''[[VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom2 Marvel vs. Capcom 2]]'', the top tiers consist almost exclusively of Capcom characters, with SNK characters such as [[VideoGame/TheLastBlade Hibiki]], [[VideoGame/FatalFury Geese]], and [[VideoGame/FatalFury Rock]] edging their way into upper/high-mid and the middle and lower/low-mid tiers mostly featuring SNK characters (cue jokes that, since Capcom developed the game, they intentionally gimped SNK's side). Unlike ''[=MvC2=]'', the high and mid tiers are still quite good in the right hands, many of them even seeing their fair share of TournamentPlay. The viability of several characters is actually independent of picks/counterpicks. On top of that, the Groove System adds another layer of depth (the strategies and nuisances of characters are bound to change due to the wide range of gameplay mechanics offered between each Groove), and while certain Grooves are better than others, "weaker" Grooves such as P-Groove and S-Groove can still be deadly up against users of the other four Grooves if utilized properly. It's not ''quite'' as unbalanced as some would have you believe.

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* CharacterTiers: In a case which can be likened to that of ''[[VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom2 Marvel vs. Capcom 2]]'', the top tiers consist almost exclusively of Capcom characters, with SNK characters such as [[VideoGame/TheLastBlade Hibiki]], [[VideoGame/FatalFury Geese]], and [[VideoGame/FatalFury Rock]] edging their way into upper/high-mid and the middle and lower/low-mid tiers mostly featuring SNK characters (cue characters. (Cue jokes that, since Capcom developed the game, they intentionally gimped SNK's side). side.) Unlike ''[=MvC2=]'', the high and mid tiers are still quite good in the right hands, many of them even seeing their fair share of TournamentPlay. The viability of several characters is actually independent of picks/counterpicks. On top of that, the Groove System adds another layer of depth (the strategies and nuisances of characters are bound to change due to the wide range of gameplay mechanics offered between each Groove), and while certain Grooves are better than others, "weaker" Grooves such as P-Groove and S-Groove can still be deadly up against users of the other four Grooves if utilized properly. It's not ''quite'' as unbalanced as some would have you believe.



* CultClassic: While ''Marvel vs. Capcom 2'' might very well be the most well-known of all the ''Vs.'' games, there are members of the FGC who argue that ''[=MvC2=]'' is more than a bit overrated ([[HypeBacklash if not outright undeserving of the magnanimous praise it gets]] [[note]]yes, there is something of a FandomRivalry over which of the two is the best of the ''Vs.'' series, despite the fact that, if anything, they're compliments to one another[[/note]]) while ''[=CvS2=]'' was overlooked as a result. As such, ''[=CvS2=]''-proponents feel it didn't receive the kind of acclaim it should have for a game of such depth and complexity. [[http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/3/7/running-it-back-why-capcom-vs-snk-2-is-one-of-the-best-games.html This article sums it all up quite nicely.]]

to:

* CultClassic: While ''Marvel vs. Capcom 2'' might very well be the most well-known of all the ''Vs.'' games, there are members of the FGC [[UsefulNotes/FightingGameCommunity FGC]] who argue that ''[=MvC2=]'' is more than a bit overrated ([[HypeBacklash if not outright undeserving of the magnanimous praise it gets]] [[note]]yes, there is something of a FandomRivalry over which of the two is the best of the ''Vs.'' series, despite the fact that, if anything, they're compliments complements to one another[[/note]]) while ''[=CvS2=]'' was overlooked as a result. As such, ''[=CvS2=]''-proponents feel it didn't receive the kind of acclaim it should have for a game of such depth and complexity. [[http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/3/7/running-it-back-why-capcom-vs-snk-2-is-one-of-the-best-games.html This article sums it all up quite nicely.]]



* ScrappyMechanic: S-Groove is hated by many, since it's the weakest groove for a ''lot'' (over 2/3) of the cast. P-Groove is a close second, but there are still plenty of high-level players who make it work in their favor.

to:

* ScrappyMechanic: S-Groove is hated by many, since it's the weakest groove Groove for a ''lot'' (over 2/3) of the cast. P-Groove is a close second, but there are still plenty of high-level players who make it work in their favor.
3rd May '16 2:14:11 AM Shmeckie
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** Ironically, though the Capcom characters rank higher in the tiers, in terms of bosses, God Rugal ''far'' exceeds Shin Akuma, to the point where it seems deliberately so. Likely due to Rugal's status as the ur-example of [[SNKBoss SNK Boss Syndrome]]. While Shin Akuma is just Akuma with stronger attacks and a new super, he also has far less health. God Rugal boasts several new attacks (including a few of Akuma's), and none of the low health to mitigate it. This often leads to God Rugal being considered the true "boss" of the game. Hell, even God Rugal's intro animation has him casually tossing Akuma's corpse to the side.



*** Oddly enough those characters aren't nearly as viable as the top tiers due to their incredibly low health (they die in 1-2 hits or a super), and the sheer number of options and moves in the game. Roll canceling, custom combos, etc., make it so many of their tactics can be easily nullified.
21st Mar '16 7:04:09 PM LucaEarlgrey
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Added DiffLines:

* NightmareFuel: After beating [[TrueFinalBoss Shin Akuma or God/Ultimate Rugal]], you get to see their heartbeat turning into a {{flatline}} as they die.
28th Jan '16 9:04:09 AM HighCrate
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* CultClassic: While ''Marvel vs. Capcom 2'' might very well be the most well-known of all the ''Vs.'' games, there are members of the FGC who argue that ''[=MvC2=]'' is more than a bit overrated ([[HypeBacklash if not outright undeserving of the magnanimous praise it gets]] [[note]]yes, there is something of a FandomRivalry over which of the two is the real MagnumOpus of the ''Vs.'' series, despite the fact that, if anything, they're compliments to one another[[/note]]) while ''[=CvS2=]'' was overlooked as a result. As such, ''[=CvS2=]''-proponents feel it didn't receive the kind of acclaim it should have for a game of such depth and complexity. [[http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/3/7/running-it-back-why-capcom-vs-snk-2-is-one-of-the-best-games.html This article sums it all up quite nicely.]]

to:

* CultClassic: While ''Marvel vs. Capcom 2'' might very well be the most well-known of all the ''Vs.'' games, there are members of the FGC who argue that ''[=MvC2=]'' is more than a bit overrated ([[HypeBacklash if not outright undeserving of the magnanimous praise it gets]] [[note]]yes, there is something of a FandomRivalry over which of the two is the real MagnumOpus best of the ''Vs.'' series, despite the fact that, if anything, they're compliments to one another[[/note]]) while ''[=CvS2=]'' was overlooked as a result. As such, ''[=CvS2=]''-proponents feel it didn't receive the kind of acclaim it should have for a game of such depth and complexity. [[http://iplaywinner.com/news/2012/3/7/running-it-back-why-capcom-vs-snk-2-is-one-of-the-best-games.html This article sums it all up quite nicely.]]
18th Oct '15 6:03:00 PM X2X
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* GameBreaker: [[GoodBadBugs Roll canceling]] [[note]]quickly canceling the first three frames of any ground roll into a special or super; on top of this, the inputted move gains the properties of the roll, meaning that the RC'd move is invincible (although it ''can'' be thrown out of if the move isn't airborne or a move that already has invincible properties such as a DP)[[/note]]. In fact, during the 2002 EVO tourney (in which 20 Japanese players attended), most of the Americans didn't learn to employ roll canceling; most of the Japanese players did, leading to Japan dominating the standings (the only top U.S. finishers were 3rd and a two-man tie for 7th), with [[UsefulNotes/FightingGameCommunity Tokido]] blowing up not only the other Japanese finalist (Nuki), but America's top placer (Ken, who ''did'' know how to roll cancel). What mitigates [=RCing=]'s claim as a GameBreaker (even if slightly) is that, aside of the practice necessary to perfect its execution, the skill is available to every character, some of whom can benefit from its effects when faced with a bad match-up. Roll canceling has widely been accepted as a legitimate factor in high-level play since. In fact, their removal in the [=GameCube=] and Xbox versions (''EO'') is one of the reasons those ports weren't received as well as the [=PS2=] and Dreamcast ones.

to:

* GameBreaker: [[GoodBadBugs Roll canceling]] [[note]]quickly canceling the first three frames of any ground roll into a special or super; on top of this, the inputted move gains the properties of the roll, meaning that the RC'd move is invincible (although it ''can'' be thrown out of if the move isn't airborne or a move that already has invincible properties such as a DP)[[/note]]. In fact, during the 2002 EVO tourney (in which 20 Japanese players attended), most of the Americans didn't learn to employ roll canceling; most of the Japanese players did, leading to Japan dominating the standings (the only top U.S. finishers were 3rd and a two-man tie for 7th), with [[UsefulNotes/FightingGameCommunity [[FightingGameCommunity/FGCAces Tokido]] blowing up not only the other Japanese finalist (Nuki), but America's top placer (Ken, who ''did'' know how to roll cancel). What mitigates [=RCing=]'s claim as a GameBreaker (even if slightly) is that, aside of the practice necessary to perfect its execution, the skill is available to every character, some of whom can benefit from its effects when faced with a bad match-up. Roll canceling has widely been accepted as a legitimate factor in high-level play since. In fact, their removal in the [=GameCube=] and Xbox versions (''EO'') is one of the reasons those ports weren't received as well as the [=PS2=] and Dreamcast ones.



*** Oddly enough those characters aren't nearly as viable as the top tiers due to their incredibly low health (they die in 1-2 hits or a super), and the sheer number of options and moves in the game. Roll canceling, custom combos, etc, make it so many of their tactics can be easily nullified.

to:

*** Oddly enough those characters aren't nearly as viable as the top tiers due to their incredibly low health (they die in 1-2 hits or a super), and the sheer number of options and moves in the game. Roll canceling, custom combos, etc, etc., make it so many of their tactics can be easily nullified.



* ThatOneAttack: [[OriginalGeneration The new version]] of Shin Akuma (fueled by the [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Orochi power]]) possesses what is perhaps the deadliest and most [[InvisibilityFlicker instantaneous]] [[OneHitKill deathmove]] ''ever'': [[DeathFromAbove Misogi]]. The moment you hear the super activation chime, ''pray.''

to:

* ThatOneAttack: [[OriginalGeneration The new version]] of Shin Akuma (fueled by the [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Orochi power]]) possesses what is perhaps the deadliest and most [[InvisibilityFlicker instantaneous]] [[OneHitKill deathmove]] ''ever'': [[DeathFromAbove Misogi]]. The moment you hear the super activation chime, ''pray.''''pray''.
18th Oct '15 5:49:16 PM X2X
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** God Rugal's move known as "[[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast END]]". If he hits you with it, you may as well say goodbye to your character, because it's the most damaging super ''in the game''.

to:

** God Rugal's move known as "[[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast END]]". END]]." If he hits you with it, you may as well say goodbye to your character, because it's the most damaging super ''in the game''.



** In a reversed example, many have come to hate the CvS2 versions of some their favorite characters thanks to them being much weaker than their native game counterparts. The character hit hardest with this is King, who's been demoted to the same tier as '''''[[JokeCharacter Dan]]'''!''

to:

** In a reversed example, many have come to hate the CvS2 ''[=CvS2=]'' versions of some their favorite characters thanks to them being much weaker than their native game counterparts. The character hit hardest with this is King, who's been demoted to the same tier as '''''[[JokeCharacter Dan]]'''!''
13th Jul '15 3:26:54 AM LucaEarlgrey
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Added DiffLines:

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome: Let's be honest -- Have you ever seen a team of less than three players?
1st Jul '15 3:23:26 AM TwistedGrimm
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** In a reversed example, many have come to hate the CvS2 versions of some their favorite characters thanks to them being much weaker than their native game counterparts. The character hit hardest with this is King, who in this game is ''as weak as '''[[JokeCharacter Dan]]'''!''

to:

** In a reversed example, many have come to hate the CvS2 versions of some their favorite characters thanks to them being much weaker than their native game counterparts. The character hit hardest with this is King, who in this game is ''as weak who's been demoted to the same tier as '''[[JokeCharacter '''''[[JokeCharacter Dan]]'''!''
1st Jul '15 3:22:05 AM TwistedGrimm
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* ScrappyMechanic: S-Groove is hated by many, since it's the weakest groove for a ''lot'' (over 2/3) of the cast. P-Groove is a close second, but there are still plenty of high-level players who make it work in their favor.



** God Rugal's move known as "[[NamesToRunAwayFromReallyFast END]]". If he hits you with it, you may as well say goodbye to your character, because it's the most damaging super ''in the game''.



** Though using advanced attacks with Bison and Sakura took plenty of practice, especially their custom combos known as "Paint The Fence" and "Shosho" because of the motions and sounds of them.

to:

** Though using advanced attacks with Bison and Sakura took plenty of practice, especially their custom combos known as "Paint The Fence" and "Shosho" because of the motions and sounds of them.them.
** In a reversed example, many have come to hate the CvS2 versions of some their favorite characters thanks to them being much weaker than their native game counterparts. The character hit hardest with this is King, who in this game is ''as weak as '''[[JokeCharacter Dan]]'''!''
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