History WMG / BeastWars

[[WMG: The [[ChallengeOfTheGoBots Gobots]] exist in the same universe as the Maximals and Predacons.]]

[[WMG: The Maximal and Predicon symbols are based on the leaders at the time of the great upgrade]]
They had to come from somewhere

[[WMG: Waspinator was responcible for the great upgrade]]
After the beast wars, Waspinator took TheSlowPath back but still wound up on Cybertron before the great upgrade. After being studied for a while the data collected was used to create the great upgrade

[[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus_apotheosis Primus Apotheosis]] is mentioned as a mental illness that causes certain autobots to imitate Optimus Prime. In any case, it would certainly explain [[{{expy}} his similarities with Optimus]] if he was deliberately trying to emulate him.

[[Dinobot is descended from [[TheStarscream Starscream]]]]

* There wouldn't be any effect unless history deviated from what was supposed to happen. Earth only had one moon in the future, and nowhere near as much energon, the planet getting blasted was always supposed t happen.

There can be little doubt Dinobot knew he was going to die a few episodes before he did, from the lengthy speeches to uploading a copy of himself and even confirmation from his VA: According to McNeil, Dinobot knew he was going to die five episodes before he did, as right up until the last second, he believed Dinobot to only be "cartoon dead" as opposed to "dead dead". However, what if Dinobot knew from the beginning that he was fated to die by sacrificing himself to save humans on earth, and THAT was the reason he join Megs, in order to test his fate himself. This could be a reason behind his berserker and at times suicidal nature. This, in addition to Dinobot's knowledge of Megatron's plans to disrupt history on Earth (RT: "Where have you been, out saving the universe?" DB: "Possibly", (paraphrasing) DB: "Your plan proceeds", "Megatron is near a great victory", "Your plans will destroy all who came before", etc) adds fuel to the fire when Dinobot confronts Megatron about being on the wrong planet in the first episode, the need to defeat him at any cost, and later, Dinobot's obsession with fate and the need to be the master of it ("For I could not live if not the master of my own fate!").

* According to IMDb, Dinobot is descended from Grimlock, so this could be true.

Think about it: they'd have plenty of good reasons to want to off both Autobot and Decepticon while not being descended from them. They have a vested interest in reclaiming Cybertron (former Quintessonian factory). They hate the Transformers (they Main/TurnedAgainstTheirMasters). They're sadistic perverts (watch Main/TheMovie). And not being gods or Main/SufficientlyAdvancedAliens, they can't just do stuff through sheer will. Megatron's "Unicron's Spawn" was just an insult.
* This makes perfect sense if you don't want the Unicron's Spawn comment to be literal in your personal canon. Tarantulas' scheme was especially audacious, but hardly unheard of for a Quintesson -- time and dimension travel were both technologies that the Quintessons were familiar with, and they had once tried to avert the Cybertronian Revolution by time-snatching the pivotal fighter, A3. We know from G1 that even after losing Quintessa, they frequently spied upon or otherwise interferred with Autobots and Decepticons alike. Furthermore, as the entities who built the first Cybertronians, surely they could make the perfect infiltrator agent? It stands to reason that they continued to spy on Cybertron long after the events of Season 3, and realising the Maximals and Predacons were losing their memories of the events of TransformersGenerationsOne, began seeding Cybertron with secret agents, new Transformers built in their own labs designed to hide amongst the Cybertronians and work on whatever schemes their Quintesson masters commanded.

Before he reformatted into a Predacon, Tarantulas was a universe hopping motorcycle by the name of [[TransformersArmada Sideways]].

* The [[TransformersAnimated Animated Allspark 2]] suggests that, even further, he's also Animated Sideways ''and'' RevengeOfTheFallen Sideways, via black hole/timeloop/[[MindScrew something.]]

[[WMG: Dinobot is descended from [[TransformersGeneration1 the Dinobots]]]]

The Vok's goal is stated [[AllThereInTheManual in the expanded universe]] to be guiding other species to [[EvolutionaryLevels higher evolutionary levels]]. Despite their... [[EarthShatteringKaboom odd methods]] of ensuring success, they may be attempting an all-out war against the [[OmnicidalManiac Anti-Spirals]]. That, and they seem to select "heralds" of their own to restore order AND allow all beings in the universe to live peacefully without the Anti-Spirals threatening to [[KillEmAll kill them]]. [[TransformersAnimated Swindle]] was right; they really ARE nice creatures.

----

** based off this [[http://haluwasa2.deviantart.com/favourites/51860690#/d1vip2r picture]] on DeviantArt

** Is there a source on that? Because [[WordOfGod [=DiTillio=] and Forward]] have repeatedly stated that it wasn't meant that way and that the Unicronian origin only ended up getting reaffirmed in the comics because so many fans misinterpreted it. Every comment ThisTroper has ever seen from them says it was supposed to just be a generic insult, and Larry's even claimed that Bob regretted the phrase because so many people took it literally, so at best it's a FlipFlopOfGod.

[[WMG:The Decepticon Ravage sacrificed himself in ''Beast Wars'' not out of loyalty to his former commander Megatron, but to his pre-Cybertronian Wars Autobot friend Nightstalker.]]

So, with the reason established, each race develops a method to merge with each other. Cybertronian, seeing that human's anatomy conserved much more energy and simply more nimble, decide to upgrade themselves by downsizing the overall size into normal humanoid size shedding the large frame. Human, also in a way, upgrade themselves to this form. But one question remain, the universe at large is largely organic lifeform. In the event of energon absence or depletion, they need to sustain themselves with organic material(i.e eating organic matter). Thus they begun the techno-organic project. This particular project's aim is to integrate Hardiness of metal technology and the organic diversity. As the project almost come to completion, Predacon/Decepticon faction decide that they like staying metal, and sabotage the project, destroying all the tech-org goop on Cybertron. Since all of humanity is either converted to metal or willingly turn themselves into tech-org material, the source of that project is lost aside from the record of humanity's origin, the Golden Disk featured in BW-era.

[[WMG:Blackarachnia gained telekinetic powers during her Transmetal II upgrade due to her mind link with Tarantulas.]]

[[WMG:Rampage wanted Depth Charge to kill him all along.]]

[[WMG:The Maximal Elders are [[Main/KnightTemplar just as fanatical as the Predacons]].]]

[[WMG:The Maximals left on prehistoric Earth eventually became the Battle Beasts.]]

[[WMG:Tarantulus was a Quintesson (or one of their agents).]]

[[WMG: Waspinator was manufactured by [[LooneyTunes Acme]].]]

[[WMG: Megatron and Dinobot were more than just comrades-in-arms.]]

** Oh, he knew: "Your insanity will destroy us all, Maximal and Predacon alike and all those who came before." Uttered in Maximal, No More. Of course to further complicate this guess, Dinobot couldn't follow Megatron since he'd had to kill Rattrap. Sure, he could slag the future, but still his [[HoYay would-be rival?]] Perish the thought.

[[WMG: Dinobot joined Megatron's crew knowing he himself would die.]]

* Possibly, conditions of his death were recorded on the Golden Disc itself, as evidenced when Dinobot is in his quarters at the beginning of "Maximal, No More" analyzing the Golden Disc against Megs' plans.

[[WMG: The Insecticons from G1 gained their beast modes and amnesia due to Tarantulas's attempts to alter the past.]]
When the Insecticons first appeared in the original Transformers cartoon there were several questions regarding their origin that were never answered. They apparently came from a Decepticon escape pod that had been jetisoned from the ''Nemesis'', and after some prompting from Megatron, seemed to vaguely recognize him and their faction but they lacked any concrete memories of their past. Also, their alternate forms were capable of digesting organic matter and turning it into energon, an ability that is treated by the Decepticons as being unique.

We know that Tarantulas was working to rebuild the Nemesis. It's possible that during his search for the ship he discovered the Insecticons and sought to repair them using technology from his time period, hence why the Insecticons have beast modes and are able to convert organic matter into energon, an ability that the Maximals and Predacons have been alluded to have. (We have seen them eating in beast modes on several occasions, and in "The Low Road" Primal outright told an infected Rhinox to eat something in order to keep his energy levels up.) Tarantulas also sought to alter their minds to serve him, perhaps with a Predacon shell program, but due to differences between past and current Transformers technology, which had previously been seen when Teletraan-1's shielding failed to interface with technology from the Axalon in "Go With the Flow," the shell program failed and instead wiped the Insecticons' minds.

[[http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus_apotheosis Primus Apotheosis]] is mentioned as a mental illness that causes certain autobots to imitate Optimus Prime. In any case, it would certainly explain [[{{expy}} his similarities with Optimus]] if he was deliberately trying to emulate him.

Another symptom of PA is [[HeroicSacrifice "sacrificing one's life at the earliest opportunity"]]; and Primal managed to do that TWICE.

<<|WildMassGuessing|>>

He was smart enough to want to not be known, which is why he faked non-sapience whenever there was a chance of being seen or heard; Megatron consulted with him and recieved orders and strategy offscreen. He was also the level-headed sane one of the group, explaining why Megatron went completely off the deep end in WesternAnimation/BeastMachines- without his boss giving him orders, he had to rely on his own prejudices and intellect. This is also why Megatron was so good at manipulating, keeping tabs on, and seeing through the {{Xanatos Gambit}}s of the other Predacons- the real one in charge was small enough and unassuming enough to be a perfect spy, and he simply figured out how to turn what he saw to his favor, and relayed that to his figurehead.

So, with the reason established, each race develop a method to merge with each other. Cybertronian, seeing that human's anatomy conserved much more energy and simply more nimble, decide to upgrade themselves by downsizing the overall size into normal humanoid size shedding the large frame. Human, also in a way, upgrade themselves to this form. But one question remain, the universe at large is largely organic lifeform. In the event of energon absence or depletion, they need to sustain themselves with organic material(i.e eating organic matter). Thus they begun the techno-organic project. This particular project's aim is to integrate Hardiness of metal technology and the organic diversity. As the project almost come to completion, Predacon/Decepticon faction decide that they like staying metal, and sabotage the project, destroying all the tech-org goop on Cybertron. Since all of humanity is either converted to metal or willingly turn themselves into tech-org material, the source of that project is lost aside from the record of humanity's origin, the Golden Disk featured in BW-era.

** This makes perfect sense if you don't want the Unicron's Spawn comment to be literal in your personal canon. Tarantulas' scheme was especially audacious, but hardly unheard of for a Quintesson -- time and dimension travel were both technologies that the Quintessons were familiar with, and they had once tried to avert the Cybertronian Revolution by time-snatching the pivotal fighter, A3. We know from G1 that even after losing Quintessa, they frequently spied upon or otherwise interferred with Autobots and Decepticons alike. Furthermore, as the entities who built the first Cybertronians, surely they could make the perfect infiltrator agent? It stands to reason that they continued to spy on Cybertron long after the events of Season 3, and realising the Maximals and Predacons were losing their memories of the events of TransformersGenerationsOne, began seeding Cybertron with secret agents, new Transformers built in their own labs designed to hide amongst the Cybertronians and work on whatever schemes their Quintesson masters commanded.

**** Actually, BW Megs knew he was on Earth in Code oh Hero: with the Disc in hand, he mused that if it were not for the human race that sprang up from the valley, the Autobots would have lost. In addition, it is noted by Silverbolt and Blackarachnia that Megatron had previously dug a tunnel to the Ark, and then had it blasted shut.

Given the vast differences between their personalities and belief-systems, it isn't immediately obvious why Dinobot would have joined the Predacons; Tarantulas was there for his enigmatic 'missions,' Waspinator and Terrorsaur because they were easily cowed, Scorponok was dead loyal to Megatron, but Dinobot was there because he and Megatron jointly founded the expedition, a plan which grew out of their relationship. The reason why Dinobot ditched back in episode 1-1 is because at that point they were already in conflict, philosophically and because Megatron - with his 'anything for the cause' attitude - wasn't remaining exclusive. Probably with Scorponok, hence why he was the first to blast Dinobot. This explains the Megatron images in Dinobot's computer (more specifically, the speed with which he clicks it shut when he's disturbed; c'mon, you know the feeling) and Megatron's repeated Dinobot clones. When you can't be with the one you love, make inexplicable copies of him. The reason why Dinobot defected back in ''Maximal, No More'' wasn't really the whole 'clash of honor' thing, it was the fact that Inferno's behavior towards Megatron meant that, once more, Megatron wasn't exactly pining. [[spoiler: I hope you're happy, Jay.]]

** Oh, he knew:
*** "Your insanity will destroy us all, Maximal and Predacon alike and all those who came before." Uttered in Maximal, No More. Of course to further complicate this guess, Dinobot couldn't follow Megatron since he'd had to kill Rattrap. Sure, he could slag the future, but still his [[HoYay would-be rival?]] Perish the thought.
**** Or Dinobot was just smart enough/familiar enough with Megatron to put the pieces together once he had all the information.

[[WMG: Dinobot joined Megatron's crew knowing Dinobot himself would die.]]
* There can be little doubt Dinobot knew he was going to die a few episodes before he did, from the lengthy speeches to uploading a copy of himself and even confirmation from his VA: According to McNeil, Dinobot knew he was going to die five episodes before he did, as right up until the last second, he believed Dinobot to only be "cartoon dead" as opposed to "dead dead". However, what if Dinobot knew from the beginning that he was fated to die by sacrificing himself to save humans on earth, and THAT was the reason he join Megs, in order to test his fate himself. This could be a reason behind his berserker and at times suicidal nature. This, in addition to Dinobot's knowledge of Megatron's plans to disrupt history on Earth (RT: "Where have you been, out saving the universe?" DB: "Possibly", (paraphrasing) DB: "Your plan proceeds", "Megatron is near a great victory", "Your plans will destroy all who came before", etc) adds fuel to the fire when Dinobot confronts Megatron about being on the wrong planet in the first episode, the need to defeat him at any cost, and later, Dinobot's obsession with fate and the need to be the master of it ("For I could not live if not the master of my own fate!").
** Possibly, conditions of his death were recorded on the Golden Disc itself, as evidenced when Dinobot is in his quarters at the beginning of "Maximal, No More" analyzing the Golden Disc against Megs' plans.
** Could it be that the Maximals that witnessed DB's death had something to do with this? Do they make a time traveling stop on the way home and inadvertently spread the word of his good deed, which then gets recorded onto the Golden Disc or someplace else?

[[WMG: Rubber Ducky was, in fact, a Predacon, and was TheManBehindTheMan giving instructions to Megatron]]

[[WMG: The Insecitcons from G1 gained their beast modes and amnesia due to Tarantuals' attempts to alter the past.]]
When the Insecticons first appeared in the original Transformers cartoon there were several questions regarding their origin that were never answered. They apparently came from a Decepticon escape pod that had been jetisoned from the Nemesis and after some prompting from Megatron seemed to vaguely recognize him and their faction but they lacked any concrete memories of their past. Also, their alternate forms were capable of digesting organic matter and turning it into energon, an ability that is treated by the Decepticons as being unique. We know that Tarantulas was working to rebuild the Nemesis, it's possible that during his search for the ship he discovered the Insecticons and sought to repair them using technology from his time period, hence why the Insecticons have beast modes and are able to convert organic matter into energon, an ability that the Maximals and Predacons have been alluded to have as we have seen them eating in beast modes on several occasions and at one point Optimus outright told an infected Rhinox to eat some vines in order to keep his energy levels up. Tarantulas also sought to alter their minds to serve him, perhaps with a Predacon shell program but due to differences between past and current Transformers technology, which had previously been seen when Teletraan-1's shielding failed to interface with technology from the Axalon in "Go With the Flow," the shell program failed and instead wiped the Insecticons' minds.

He was just acting so nice because he was stuck in a situation where his personal opinions weren't relevant. Notice just how evil he became in Dark Desings, then also notice just how little Black Arachnia's personality changed when her programming changed from predacon to maximal, was it the reprogramming that made him so nasty or was it merely an excuse? We've seen that Maximals are not inherently Good, Quickstrike was never reprogrammed and was a sadistic monster and even Ratrap was quite a selfish jerk a lot of the time. In the fifth episode, after Optimus was absorbed by an alien probe, the Maximals vote between Ratrap and Dinobot as new leader, a vote that somehow ended up a tie. Both bots clearly voted for themselves and Cheetor was far too optimistic to vote in favor of Dinobot's harsh, merciless methods which would mean that Rhinox was the one that voted in favor of Dinobot. He's also the one that insists that the vote was secret after ratrap demands to know who voted for Dinobot, Cheetor showing no reaction to the accusation. Notice how after Optimus' death Rhinox asserts leadership with pure force? It would place his characterization in Beast Machines as him merely saying 'Screw it' to playing nice as their world was slagged anyway.

The -us Prime suffix was removed to represent his Fall. The Hero who would not win but would not surrender was one of the other Primes, as was the Mighty Warrior with the rainbows. The great mountain rising from the sea refers to a hidden unicronian ship underneath the Sea of Rust on Cybrertron, and the bit about "they who live and war as beasts" was just it being derrogatory about unircronian followers acting cruder and being doomed to death at the hands of righteous bots. The similarities are just coincidence, or Primus intentionally making the thing apply to multiple events- the Beast Wars aren't the last circumstances it will describe eerily as history repeats over and over.