History Main / EvasiveFightThreadEpisode

** In ''ComicBook/BatmanHush'' Batman fights Superman with nothing but a Kryptonite ring, but he doesn't actually win. He just keeps Superman occupied until [[spoiler: ComicBook/{{Catwoman}} can threaten Comicbook/LoisLane and break ComicBook/PoisonIvy's hold over him]]. He states that he could tell that his friend was holding back unconsciously because it's such a deeply ingrained characteristic to not hurt people. When he's actually under the influence of [[spoiler:Max Lord]], he puts Batman into traction.
** Despite at least 3 chances to have seen an outcome, we have yet to truly see who would win a fair fight between Batman and his closest ''Franchise/MarvelUniverse'' equivalent in badass, ComicBook/CaptainAmerica[[note]]Well, technically, Batman's Marvel counterpart would be ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}, but that's not the point.[[/note]]. See:

** A fight between Batman and a brainwashed [[ComicBook/Batgirl2000 Cassandra Cain]] ended this way.

* There was a one-shot comic entitled ''Franchise/SpiderMan vs. ComicBook/{{Wolverine}}'' released in the eighties where the two characters fought without a clear winner (it ended in a deadlock and was broken up by bad guys). Later, a ''ComicBook/MarvelComicsPresents'' story with the same title also showed an inconclusive fight (Spider-Man attacked a person whom he thought was impersonating Wolverine and stopped after a few traded blows once Wolvie proved he was the real deal). Though, in ''ComicBook/{{Secret Wars|1984}}'' Spidey basically took on all of the ComicBook/XMen and was winning before the ComicBook/ProfessorX mindwipe (though he had ConservationOfNinjutsu on his side then).
** Spidey has a similar relationship with ComicBook/{{Daredevil}} despite the two of them being close friends. They would always fight to a standstill. Often, Spider-Man would be [[DramaPreservingHandicap hindered in some way]] (mind-controlled, wounded, etc.) in order to make the fight more even since he had SuperStrength and DD didn't.
** After the return of the original Green Goblin, ComicBook/NormanOsborn, and the revelation of the original Hobgoblin, Roderick Kingsley, the two had a heated confrontation that dodged any answer as to who was superior in any particular way. Kingsley ends up fighting a proxy Green Goblin for much of the story; a brief altercation with Osborn is interrupted by a fire; Osborn's refusal to get his hands dirty during the story removes the possibility of a straight-up fight. The evasiveness even extends to the villains' planning skills - Kingsley ultimately gets away scot free after pulling a successful BatmanGambit on Norman, but along the way Osborn saw through all of Kingsley's deceptions and bought out Kingsley's corporate holdings. By the end, both villains win in a tangible way without settling the question of who is superior in any respect.

** This trope was averted in the ComicBook/XForce/ComicBook/XFactor fight during the ''Executioner's Song'' {{Crossover}}. X-Factor defeated and captured the X-Force, bringing them in for questioning on the whereabouts of ComicBook/{{Cable}}.
* This trope is often averted when ComicBook/ThePunisher fights other heroes, perhaps due to his AntiHero status. Spider-Man, Daredevil, and ComicBook/CaptainAmerica have all had clear victories over Frank Castle.
* ''Franchise/{{Superman}}'':
** In UsefulNotes/{{the Silver Age|OfComicBooks}} and UsefulNotes/{{the Bronze Age|OfComicBooks}}, virtually every race between Superman and Franchise/TheFlash ended ambiguously as a draw for one reason or another. In their first race, the two deliberately tie in order to frustrate a gambling syndicate; in their second, none of the spectators can agree on the winner because it looked like a different outcome from different angles. However, the ComicBook/PostCrisis comics quickly averted the trope by having Wally West outrun Superman, a result that has stayed consistent in every race since regardless of [[LegacyCharacter which Flash]] is involved and where the characters are otherwise in terms of PowerCreepPowerSeep. The fact that the pair used to be neck-and-neck was explained by Flash with the fact that "[[IAmNotLeftHanded those races were for charity.]]"
** Although most of the time they are evenly matched, it was rumored for a while -by Batman himself- that Post-Crisis ComicBook/{{Supergirl}} was more powerful than her cousin. In ''[[ComicBook/Supergirl2005 "Girl of Steel"]]'', Kara's evil clone gloats that she can defeat Superman, but Kal replies he'll win if she forces him to go all out. Dark Supergirl challenges him to test his theory, but their argument is interrupted by Batman, and the matter is left unresolved.
** In ''ComicBook/TheGreatDarknessSaga'', though, Supergirl proves to be more resilient than ComicBook/{{Superboy}} when both of them engage ComicBook/{{Darkseid}}... albeit Darkseid proved he's more powerful than either of them anyway.

** Subverted in ''ComicBook/SupermanVsTheAmazingSpiderMan''. ComicBook/LexLuthor and ComicBook/DoctorOctopus manipulate Superman and Franchise/SpiderMan into fighting each other, subtly bathing Spidey in red sun radiation to give him an edge. Spidey holds his own until it wears off, at which point he becomes utterly outmatched.
** Also applied to the sequel in which during a fight with ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk, Superman [[NoSell brushes off]] all of his attacks and removes a mind control device he found on him before the fight gets too serious.
* After the first battle between ComicBook/TheMightyThor and ComicBook/TheIncredibleHulk in ''ComicBook/TheAvengers'' #3, Creator/StanLee felt unsatisfied with the resolution - floodwaters separate the two combatants before the fight can really get started. He later wrote an issue of ''Thor'' in which Thor comes across [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall a group of children arguing over which of the two is the strongest]]. Thor sits with them and recounts the previous battle, but now much longer and more elaborate than previously seen in the ''Avengers'', adding extra wrinkles (such as Thor deciding to battle Hulk without his hammer and Odin granting him five minutes to do so). While the fight still ends inconclusively, Thor tells the boys that the fight was not simply a question of who was the strongest, but that there were many factors that could have swung the fight in either direction. Stan himself seemed to be suggesting that this was more dramatically interesting than having a definitive winner.

* In ''ComicBook/IdentityCrisis'', as ComicBook/{{Deathstroke}} is tearing his way through a team assembled to help Elongated Man take down Doctor Light, he grabs Franchise/GreenLantern's ring-bearing hand and wonders if his superior intellect could actually force the ring to work for him. The question is left unanswered after ComicBook/GreenArrow stabs him in his bad eye.
* ''ComicBook/{{Deadpool}}'':

** This trope is averted in ''The Avengers'' sequel, ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''. Iron Man, now wearing a special suit designed to fight the Hulk, actually manages to beat him in a pretty brutal match. Meanwhile, ComicBook/ScarletWitch manages to MindRape the entire team at one point or another, with the exception of Hawkeye, who sees her coming and electrocutes her. ComicBook/{{Quicksilver}} beats Hawkeye twice with the element of surprise, but Hawkeye beats him using surprise in their third encounter.

** In ''WesternAnimation/SupermanTheAnimatedSeries'', the for-charity footrace held between Superman and the Flash gets detoured by the plot. The episode ends just as they start it over again. [[spoiler:An episode of ''Justice League Unlimited'' takes place in Coast City's Flash Museum, which has a display about the race containing a big trophy, leading to the WildMassGuess that Flash won.]] ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'''s second season episode "Eclipsed," firmly establishes that Flash can reach speeds that Superman can't -- they need to get something moving close to the speed of light, and Flash is the only one who can manage it. The charity race also happened before [[spoiler:the Speed Force event]] in ''Justice League Unlimited'', which makes it clear that [[spoiler:the Diniverse's Flash is, in the very least, ''several orders of magnitude'' faster than Superman... [[DeadlyUpgrade Though it would likely kill him to try doing it again]]]]. Averted by the versions of Superman and the Flash in ''WesternAnimation/YoungJustice'' according to WordOfGod. Since Superman has ComboPlatterPowers and superspeed is the Flash's only superpower, Greg Weisman says it makes the most sense to him that the latter is faster.
** Similarly, in ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeagueUnlimited'', "Grudge Match", a fight between ComicBook/{{Huntress}} and a mind-controlled ComicBook/BlackCanary is interrupted when the mind-control tech is destroyed; at the end of the episode, they decide to go at it again, but the episode ends before the first blow.
** In yet another ''Justice League Unlimited'' example, Superman wins via wits even though it's made fairly clear that in a straight-up fight between Superman and [[ComicBook/{{Shazam}} Captain Marvel]], neither the Man of Steel nor the World's Mightiest Mortal have the upper hand. This is mostly a fan bonus legacy nod to how similar the characters were originally in the comics, though you will have nitpickers complaining the [[Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse Diniverse]] Superman is inconsistently weaker in this adaptation. It also serves as a bit of a deconstruction of the "Who would win in a fight?" concept, as it's made clear that it's [[spoiler:ComicBook/LexLuthor]] who gains the most from two good guys pounding each other. It's also a nod to the comic ''ComicBook/KingdomCome'', where Superman fights a Luthor-manipulated Captain Marvel - especially obvious with Marvel using the magic lightning against Superman, who is vulnerable against magic. Both fights pretty much ended the same way, though.

* Regardless of his speed compared to Franchise/TheFlash, ''WesternAnimation/RobotChicken'' has [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te4-ofPoTuk Superman in a race with Santa Claus.]] Similar to the ''Superman: The Animated Series'' version, in which the Flash and Superman's charity race was interrupted by villains, the episode ending with them racing again, the outcome never to be learned by fans. It aired ''the very same week'' as the ''Film/JusticeLeague2017'' movie's premiere (in which, after the world is saved, Flash challenges Superman to a race, the scene shifting after they run past the camera, leaving the outcome unknown.)

* ''Manga/BakiTheGrappler'': The crossover between Baki Dou and ''Manga/KenganAsura'' ends this way. Doppo is about to fight Pa Paing in a flashback, but the chapter cuts back to the present day before a single blow is struck, and Doppo evades the question when asked "who won".

** Also applied to the sequel in which during a fight with the ComicBook/IncredibleHulk, Superman [[NoSell brushes off]] all of his attacks and removes a mind control device he found on him before the fight gets too serious.
* After the first battle between ComicBook/TheMightyThor and the ComicBook/IncredibleHulk in ''ComicBook/TheAvengers'' #3, Creator/StanLee felt unsatisfied with the resolution - floodwaters separate the two combatants before the fight can really get started. He later wrote an issue of ''Thor'' in which Thor comes across [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall a group of children arguing over which of the two is the strongest]]. Thor sits with them and recounts the previous battle, but now much longer and more elaborate than previously seen in the ''Avengers'', adding extra wrinkles (such as Thor deciding to battle Hulk without his hammer and Odin granting him five minutes to do so). While the fight still ends inconclusively, Thor tells the boys that the fight was not simply a question of who was the strongest, but that there were many factors that could have swung the fight in either direction. Stan himself seemed to be suggesting that this was more dramatically interesting than having a definitive winner.

** As expected, ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'' has some of its members fight or almost fight upon meeting one another. Film/IronMan fights Film/{{Thor}} who later fights Film/TheIncredibleHulk with no clear-cut winners. Film/{{Captain America|TheFirstAvenger}} deflects Thor's hammer when he breaks up his fight with Tony and even challenges Iron Man to a fight but nothing comes of either conflict. This is averted in the fight between Comicbook/BlackWidow and ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}} as Black Widow renders Hawkeye unconscious (although he was both under mind control and severely sleep deprived at the time...)

* ''WesternAnimation/AvatarTheLastAirbender'': Thanks to an unauthorized online leak, much anticipation surrounded the sword fight between Jet (twin tiger-head hook swords) and Prince Zuko (dual dao sabres). Before it came to a clear finish, the two were interrupted by [[SecretPolice the Dai Li]], and Jet was arrested.

* Shortly after Dororo's introduction in the ''Manga/SgtFrog'' manga, Giroro tries to [[MurderTheHypotenuse take out]] [[SchoolgirlLesbians Koyuki]], unaware of her relationship with Dororo. Though Dororo is reluctant, it quickly becomes clear he can't go easy on his friend; fortunately, Natsumi interrupts before either one lands a decisive blow.

* ''[[Manga/BakiTheGrappler]]'': The crossover between Baki Dou and ''[[Manga/KenganAsura]]'' ends this way. Doppo is about to fight Pa Paing in a flashback, but the chapter cuts back to the present day before a single blow is struck, and Doppo evades the question when asked "who won".

* In the finale of the story mode of ''[[VideoGame/Tekken7]]'', Akuma and Devil Kazuya battle it out. Ultimately the fight ends with the both of them unleashing their ultimate moves on each other, with no clear indication of who won.

** In ''Film/ThorRagnarok'', Thor and Hulk get a rematch after their fight in ''Film/Avengers'' was interrupted. Only for it to be interrupted again by the Grandmaster activating Thor's ShockCollar after Thor awakens his true power and starts to take the upper hand.

*** Averted during the Enerjak arc, [[SuperMode Super Sonic]] and a BrainwashedAndCrazy [[SuperMode Hyper Knuckles (he WAS going by Enerjak at the time, but he was effectively Hyper Knuckles)]] fight. The fight was interrupted, but it is made clear who the winner would be -- Knuckles, at the time, was supercharged and would have remained Super for longer, [[VictoryByEndurance thus winning a battle of attrition]], but had Sonic stayed Super long enough (a hard prospect, considering the Master Emerald was corrupted and it was a miracle he went Super in the first place) he WOULD have eventually won.

* ''Film/RockyIII'', between Rocky and Apollo. [[spoiler: Ultimately averted years later in ''Film/{{Creed}}'' when, though the fight is still not shown, Rocky admits that Apollo won.]]

* At the end of the Battle City arc in ''Anime/YuGiOh'', Yugi and Jounouchi begin a duel to resolve the question raised by their previously unresolved duel, which Yugi had thrown to save Jounouchi's life. The episode ends before the first card is played, leaving it unresolved, though the fact that Jounouchi has his Red Eyes Black Dragon back in the next arc would suggest that he indeed won.

* There was a one-shot comic entitled ''Franchise/SpiderMan vs. Franchise/{{Wolverine}}'' released in the eighties where the two characters fought without a clear winner (it ended in a deadlock and was broken up by bad guys). Later, a ''ComicBook/MarvelComicsPresents'' story with the same title also showed an inconclusive fight (Spider-Man attacked a person whom he thought was impersonating Wolverine and stopped after a few traded blows once Wolvie proved he was the real deal). Though, in ''ComicBook/{{Secret Wars|1984}}'' Spidey basically took on all of the ComicBook/XMen and was winning before the ComicBook/ProfessorX mindwipe (though he had ConservationOfNinjutsu on his side then).

* [[AvertedTrope Averted]] in ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice''. [[spoiler:Batman]] definitively wins the titular fight before the two team up.
** In ''Film/JusticeLeague2017,'' Flash and Superman race to see who is fastest (not one of the usual charity races; the Flash just wanted to know who'd win, and Superman obliged.) When the race starts, the two run past the camera almost instantly, and that's all we see of it, never learning the winner.

* Roughly half the ''Franchise/{{Godzilla}}'' movies involved him fighting a different monster from a different movie. Perhaps the most famous example would be ''Film/KingKongVsGodzilla'' where both monsters fall into the ocean and the end of the fight isn't seen on camera. Franchise/KingKong is later shown surfacing from the ocean and swimming away and Godzilla isn't seen again at all, ambiguously implying that King Kong might have won. The spiritual sequel ''Film/GodzillaVsKong'' [[spoiler:averts this. It shows that under no uncertain circumstances, Kong is defeated by Godzilla, even on even ground, losing both duels against the Monster King. Kong does put one hell of a fight both times and redeems himself by destroying Mechagodzilla at the end, however.]]

* Roughly half the ''Franchise/{{Godzilla}}'' movies involved him fighting a different monster from a different movie. Perhaps the most famous example would be ''Film/KingKongVsGodzilla'' where both monsters fall into the ocean and the end of the fight isn't seen on camera. Franchise/KingKong is later shown surfacing from the ocean and swimming away and Godzilla isn't seen again at all, ambiguously implying that King Kong might have won.

** Subverted in ''ComicBook/SupermanVsTheAmazingSpiderMan''. ComicBook/LexLuthor and ComicBook/DoctorOctopus manipulate Superman and Franchise/SpiderMan into fighting each other, subtly bathing Spidey in red sunlight to give him an edge. Spidey holds his own until the radiation wears off, at which point he becomes utterly outmatched.

* [[AvertedTrope Averted]] in ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice''. [[spoiler:Batman]] definitely wins the titular fight before the two team up.

* In ''Film/JusticeLeague2017,'' Flash and Superman race to see who is fastest (not one of the usual charity races; the Flash just wanted to know who'd win, and Superman obliged.) When the race starts, the two run past the camera almost instantly, and that's all we see of it, never learning the winner.

* The entire final episode of ''[[Anime/SCryed s-CRY-ed]]'' is a continuation of the fight between the two main characters, Kazuma and Ryuho, which had been interrupted on several different occasions. The second-to-[[DistantFinale last]] scene of the episode (and the series) has both characters severely injured. It is never explicitly stated who won the fight, although it is popularly believed that [[spoiler:Kazuma triumphed based on the fist made by the victor (which is the only thing we see, and in silhouette so that we can't be absolutely sure whether those are Kazuma's scars)]].

** This trope is how all fights between Sonic the Hedgehog and Knuckles the Echidna ended in ''ComicBook/ArchieComicsSonicTheHedgehog''. Partially justified, because the two never had a good reason to fight each other, they both were just temperamental and would engage in blows every time they met, before being distracted by whatever it was they were doing in the first place.

* Averted in the {{Crossover}} between Comicbook/SavageDragon and ComicBook/{{Hellboy}} in which Dragon was clearly shown to be stronger. The issue was co-written by both character's creators.

** Spidey has a similar relationship with Comicbook/{{Daredevil}} despite the two of them being close friends. They would always fight to a standstill. Often, Spider-Man would be [[DramaPreservingHandicap hindered in some way]] (mind-controlled, wounded, etc.) in order to make the fight more even since he had SuperStrength and DD didn't.

** Comicbook/TheAvengers also went up against the X-Men a few times with similar results.

[[folder:Web Comics]]

** While it's not mainstream canon, we do get to see Batman and Superman actually go at it in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns''. The aged Batman uses x-ray activated homing missiles, a powered exoskeleton, sonic scramblers, acid-to-the-face, the tank version of the Batmobile (driven by Robin), a [[CrazyPrepared synthesized kryptonite]] arrow (fired by the one armed Green Arrow), and then is helped by [[WorfHadTheFlu the Sun (source of Superman's power) being blotted out thanks to a recent nuclear blast (that Superman was caught in and not yet recovered from).]] [[spoiler: In the moment of victory, Batman's heart gives out and Superman wins by default.]]

* ''Manga/MahouSenseiNegima'' appears to have one of these between Jack Rakan and Nagi Springfield, although considering that [[BoisterousBruiser Jack]] is the one telling the story, and Nagi was considered the WorldsStrongestMan, it might be a case of UnreliableNarrator.

* In ''FanFic/TheFlashSentryChronicles'': The final scene in "Magic Duel" has Twilight and Trixie preparing for a friendly duel to see which one of them is the real "number one princess student". The chapter ends just as the duel begins, with the winner never revealed.

** Averted in the Season 14 crossover with ''WebAnimation/DeathBattle'' -- which finally pits Carolina and the Meta together. They spend most of the fight more or less equally matched, but ultimately Carolina wins, due to her ability to work well with Church as her AI. The episode {{lampshade|Hanging}}s the BrokenBase nature of this trope by having Grif refuse to accept the result of the "simulation". (And of course, some of the commentators on the Website/YouTube video themselves are rejecting the outcome.)
* Averted by ''WebAnimation/DeathBattle'', which shows such battles as Franchise/{{Batman}} vs Franchise/SpiderMan, [[Franchise/StreetFighter M. Bison]] vs [[Franchise/MortalKombat Shao Kahn]], and even Franchise/{{Superman}} vs [[Franchise/DragonBall Goku]]; and in each case there's a clear winner.
** They had the armies and various mechanical creations of [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Dr. "Eggman" Robotnik]] and [[VideoGame/MegaManClassic Dr. Albert Wily]] duke it out. [[spoiler: Metal Sonic from Robotnik's army went rogue mid-battle and killed both of them, going on to destroy the world.]] When this was raised in the ''Magfest 13'' interview, the creators explained that, unlike most examples of this trope, this was due to them seeing it as the logical conclusion of a battle of armies between the two, based on the abilities of their most used creations and the personalities of the scientists. [[spoiler:Metal Sonic's ability to [[PowerCopying quickly copy what he scans]] and improve his already impressive powers trumps all of the other commonly used robots of Wily and Robotnik. This would force Wily to use Roboenza as the only probable way to incapacitate him, causing Metal Sonic to go rogue.]]
** Creator/ChuckNorris vs. Advertising/SegataSanshiro ends with [[spoiler:the two vanishing when a black hole is created as a result of the battle. The hosts speculate that they are either dead or fighting in another universe. Either way, they cannot be detected]].

*** Then there was ''ComicBook/JLAAvengers'', where the two initially begin to fight but soon stopped when they both came to the conclusion they were probably being played.[[note]]Though Batman did admit that Cap would've probably won had the fight gone on longer.[[/note]]

* Averted in ''Series/{{Angel}}'' season 5: when [[BackFromTheDead Spike]] gets his body back, it takes a matter of hours for him and Angel to come to blows (though the bad guys helped arrange it). The clear winner is [[spoiler: Spike, which doesn't much help the confidence issues Angel was going through]].

* ''VideoGame/EnsembleStars'' features a lot of battles between different units (or, more rarely, other groups of characters such as clubs or even individual idols), but apart from generalities like ''fine'' being on top, the actual popularity rankings tend to be pretty vague and the characters usually won't take too much stock in any particular live. For example, in Quarrel Fest Akatsuki faces up against ''fine'' and will disband if they lose. [[StatusQuoIsGod Naturally, they win,]] but it's pointed out afterwards that basically everything was leaning towards an Akatsuki win here (''fine'' had been doing a lot of lives recently and was tired, Eichi wasn't in top physical shape, the live's theme perfectly fit a unit based on traditional Japanese culture like Akatsuki, and finally the face that Akatsuki was fighting for its very existence), so if anything they would've been a laughing stock if they ''didn't'' win.