History Headscratchers / Labyrinth

*** I never thought of it that way before, but in light of all of the above, there ''is'' a famous fantasy story that gives us an example of how the female version of Jareth would play out: Jadis the White Queen and how she tries to seduce Edmund in ''TheLionTheWitchAndTheWardrobe''. That's one way to look at both stories: replace surly young Edmund with flighty young Sarah, swap beautiful, dangerous witch-queen Jadis with handsome, dangerous goblin-king Jareth, focus the plot on just the two of them, and you end up with much the same coming-of-age story of a young person going to a fantasy world and being tempted by an evil ruler who they ultimately reject to save their family.

** This troper was under the impression that people liked him more for his malevolent elegance, and his total control over the situation, in the same way girls fawn of [[PhantomOfTheOpera the Phantom.]] People are strange.

** Sarah made the correct choice in the end, her logic worked perfectly. She did not take the path to certain death. Yes, she fell down into the oubliette - where Jareth said she ''shouldn't be'' because it meant she was getting too close, meaning she was on the right path. She also had the opportunity to go back up to the surface, via the helping hands, but didn't - and this too was the correct choice. She reached the castle and saved Toby in the end. The subversion is that while she made the correct choice, it didn't have to ''appear'' correct to Sarah (and thus the audience) at the time, in order to reinforce the theme of not taking things for granted.

** A bit of FridgeLogic about this puzzle: the rules of the puzzle are explained to Sarah by ''both'' of the guards.

*** Sarah, of course, accepts the riddle as valid. She really should stop taking things for granted...

* Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. I saw the books in your room. HansChristianAndersen, [[Creator/TheBrothersGrimm Grimm]], [[Literature/TheWonderfulWizardOfOz Oz]], you obviously know your fairy tales and myths very well. And YET, you, when transported into a magical realm, given a fruit by someone who has admittedly been working for your enemy and whose honesty is suspect, without hesitation bite into it, not thinking it might, I don't know, cause you to never be able to leave, invalidate your claim to Toby, poison you, something like that? Why not make it a [[GreekMythology pomegranate and complete the bloody metaphor]]. Really, you should not be this GenreBlind when it's obvious you've studied the genre you're somehow fallen into a story of.

** A bit of [[FridgeLogic Fridge Logic]] about this puzzle: the rules of the puzzle are explained to Sarah by ''both'' of the guards.

* This is a JBM mixed with [[FridgeHorror Fridge Horror]]. Is it possible that the masquerade scene wasn’t just a dream? Jareth was there, and the masks everyone wore resembled goblins. What if that peach transported her to the castle/allowed Jareth to do it easily, as well as making her perceive everything wrong? What she thought was a ball full of masked humans was really just a room full of goblins laughing at her as she stumbled about and danced with the King. It all sounds completely nuts till you realize when she woke up she fell out of the sky. Now why would she need to be transported, especially in a direction that took her closer to the castle...

* Am I the only one who thinks Jareth is completely hideous? And if so, why is nobody nearly as turned-on by your garden-variety hair metal singer?

** Actually, he's not all that looks-wise-- but as someone who IS turned on by the average garden variety hair metal singer, you have to mention that THIS particular big-haired codpiece wearer has MAGIC POWERS. And a magic kingdom. And, even for a hair metal vocalist, really tight pants.

* Sarah, Sarah, Sarah. I saw the books in your room. HansChristianAndersen, [[TheBrothersGrimm Grimm]], [[Literature/TheWonderfulWizardOfOz Oz]], you obviously know your fairy tales and myths very well. And YET, you, when transported into a magical realm, given a fruit by someone who has admittedly been working for your enemy and whose honesty is suspect, without hesitation bite into it, not thinking it might, I don't know, cause you to never be able to leave, invalidate your claim to Toby, poison you, something like that? Why not make it a [[GreekMythology pomegranate and complete the bloody metaphor]]. Really, you should not be this GenreBlind when it's obvious you've studied the genre you're somehow fallen into a story of.

** [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation You think she really wanted to leave?]]

**** Maybe. I've seen her door choice argued both ways ... after all, if not for Hoggle she would have likely died/been trapped (until 'rescued' by Jareth) in the Oubliette.

* Some serious fridge logic here: How does Sarah figure that Toby, who is apparently not quite at the age where he can walk, let alone climb, got her teddy bear down from her weird nook thing on the wall? Or is her melodramatic "He's been in my room again!" some weird, coded way of rationalizing her anger at "My parents are letting my kid sibling play with my toys!"?

** Oh, that makes much more sense. Thank you.

** Well, most people keep it up because they find it [[RuleOfFunny funny]]. (And really, it's ephebophilia, because Sarah's at least past puberty. [[{{Squick}} Um, I hope.]]) If you want someone to have a serious discussion about all the story symbolism and putting-away-of-childish-things and metaphor for adolescence, you'll have to get people to shut up first with all the "Crotch! Crotch! Scary puppets! 80's hair!"

*** It's part of [[MenAreGenericWomenAreSpecial common assumptions about gender and media.]] Men are considered the default, so stories written about male characters are considered to be appropriate for everyone; stories written about female characters are special-interest media for women. Labyrinth is a story about a girl growing up by discovering responsibility through childcare and sexuality through an older man, so of ''course'' only girls have ever seen it.
* Sarah marks the path she is following as she progresses through the Labyrinth. How will that help her to get out? The arrows should have been pointing in the direction in which she entered each point not the direction she left. Duh.

*** I have NEVER understood that scene, or how the question she asks gets the right answer. I can't make it work out in my head.

** Well, if you remember, Jareth had sent out the crystal bubbles; perhaps they were sent out to capture her once the peach incapacitated her. So who is to say she wasn't magically transported into the crystal while she dreamed? Also, if you watch the following scene where the goblin soldier comes in to tell Jareth that Sarah was entering the Goblin City, Jareth didn't really seem to know what was going on. I think he had been confident that the peach would knock her out for the rest of her time there. He seemed rather surprised about the whole thing.

** I always guessed that because I'm a male and straight I just never gave Jareth's tights any thought, because I didn't until I watched NostalgiaChick's review. I do kind of find it irritating that people regard that as the most memorable part of the movie. And that it's a movie only girls should be into for that matter.

**** Also, assuming it's a real fantasy world, Jareth seems compelled to offer Sarah a legitimate chance to solve the labyrinth and save Toby, the way that the fair folk usually have to keep their word in a contest. He can meddle in her adventure as much as he likes, but he can't just run her through with a sword, or bolt all the gates tight and call it a day. Since he can't make the game unwinnable, the left path really might be an easy solution that Sarah missed (though I do like the idea that it would have led "straight to the castle" via the goblin training camps).

***** But the oubliette was a separate choice: she chose down. Had she chosen up, she presumably would have been on the right path. And as said, even the oubliette did eventually lead her safely to the center.

*** I think that's the key to it. The stories where the fruit's dangerous usually have a rather obvious antagonist offering the fruit: Hades himself, the snake, a creepy old woman and so on. Hoggle seemed to have proven himself as a loyal friend, so he wasn't on her GenreSavvy radar the way Jareth himself showing up with a peach would have been. The situation's more akin to one the seven dwarves giving Snow White an apple, or Hermes offering Persephone a pomegranate in the midst of their escape. It's a cruel twist in the usual fairy tale motif that would've been obvious if Hoggle hadn't already earned her trust.

*** I think that's the key to it. The stories where the fruit's dangerous usually have a rather obvious antagonist offering the fruit: Hades himself, the snake, a creepy old woman and so on. Hoggle seemed to have proven himself as a loyal friend, so he wasn't on her GenreSavvy radar the way Jareth himself showing up with a peach would have been. The situation's more akin to one the seven dwarves giving Snow White an apple, or Hermes offering Persephone a pomegranate in the midst of their escape. It's a cruel twist in the usual fairy tale motif that would've only been obvious if she knew that Hoggle was on Jareth's side.