History BrokenBase / SuperSmashBros

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either, as it gave them something to focus on [[AccentuateTheNegative despite the preceding reveal of the initial plans and his large presence]])[[/labelnote]], plays favoritism to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens an existing FandomEnragingMisconception for their home game, citing how surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal. Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will return as well.

* '''The possibility of an "''Ultimate Deluxe''"''': Due to ''Ultimate'' being very well-recieved, many speculated that the next Nintendo console would come with an UpdatedRerelease of said game, rather than an entirely new installment. Those who want an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' and/or believe it to be realistic fear that a more traditional ''Smash'' sequel would have to cut out a lot of ''Ultimate'''s content, much of which was based around bringing back veterans and reused lots of assets from ''Smash 4'' just to make it happen. On the other hand, there are fans who think such a port is highly impractical based on comments Sakurai made regarding the development of the base game[[note]]Specifically that they wouldn't be able to add that many newcomers, and that they were almost unable to bring back one veteran[[/note]], which are issues that would potentially be worse when ''Ultimate'' ended with a roster with over 80 characters. ''Ultimate'' also almost tripling the amount of third-party characters the series has, which would seriously increase the licensing costs for an UpdatedRerelease. And regardless of likelihood, a faction of fans just aren't interested in an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' for these very reasons, viewing the idea as ItsTheSameSoItSucks. These fans argue that people can always come back to ''Ultimate'' if they want, and prefer a greater emphasis on more new content over the same set of veterans and only a few newcomers.

* '''The possibility of an "''Ultimate'' Deluxe"''': Due to ''Ultimate'' being very well-recieved, many speculated that the next Nintendo console would come with an UpdatedRerelease of said game, rather than an entirely new installment. Those who want an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' and/or believe it to be realistic fear that a more traditional ''Smash'' sequel would have to cut out a lot of ''Ultimate'''s content, much of which was based around bringing back veterans and reused lots of assets from ''Smash 4'' just to make it happen. On the other hand, there are fans who think such a port is highly impractical based on comments Sakurai made regarding the development of the base game[[note]]Specifically that they wouldn't be able to add that many newcomers, and that they were almost unable to bring back one veteran[[/note]], which are issues that would potentially be worse when ''Ultimate'' ended with a roster with over 80 characters. ''Ultimate'' also almost tripling the amount of third-party characters the series has, which would seriously increase the licensing costs for an UpdatedRerelease. And regardless of likelihood, a faction of fans just aren't interested in an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' for these very reasons, viewing the idea as ItsTheSameSoItSucks. These fans argue that people can always come back to ''Ultimate'' if they want, and prefer a greater emphasis on more new content over the same set of veterans and only a few newcomers.

* '''The possibility of an "''Ultimate'' Deluxe"''': Due to ''Ultimate'' being very well-recieved, many speculated that the next Nintendo console would come with an UpdatedRerelease of said game, rather than an entirely new installment. Those who want an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' and/or believe it to be realistic fear that a more traditional ''Smash'' sequel would have to cut out a lot of ''Ultimate'''s content, much of which was based around bringing back veterans and reused lots of assets from ''Smash 4'' just to make it happen.
On the other hand, there are fans who think such a port is highly impractical based on comments Sakurai made regarding the development of the base game[[note]]Specifically that they wouldn't be able to add that many newcomers, and that they were almost unable to bring back one veteran[[/note]], which are issues that would potentially be worse when ''Ultimate'' ended with a roster with over 80 characters. ''Ultimate'' also almost tripling the amount of third-party characters the series has, which would seriously increase the licensing costs for an UpdatedRerelease. And regardless of likelihood, a faction of fans just aren't interested in an ''Ultimate Deluxe'' for these very reasons, viewing the idea as ItsTheSameSoItSucks. These fans argue that people can always come back to ''Ultimate'' if they want, and prefer a greater emphasis on more new content over the same set of veterans and only a few newcomers.

* '''The possibility of an "''Ultimate'' Deluxe"''': Those who want it/belive it can happen worry that a more traditional ''Smash'' sequel wouldn't be as well-received due to such a game potentially having way less franchises represented. On the other hand, there are fans who think such a port is absolutely impossible due to comments Sakurai made regarding the development of the base game[[note]]Specifically that they wouldn't be able to add that many newcomers, and that they were almost unable to bring back one veteran[[/note]], which are issues that would potentially be worse when ''Ultimate'' ended with a roster with over 80 characters, including almost tripling the amount of third-party characters the series has therefore exponentially increasing the licensing costs for an UpdatedRerelease.

* '''Third-Party Characters''': While third-party characters have been around since ''Brawl'' ([[WhatCouldHaveBeen and were nearly included in]] ''Melee''), the fanbase has become increasingly divided over how many third-party characters are too many. Some believe that since the series started out as a celebration of just Nintendo, it should have stayed that way and the multitude of third-party characters the games often bring in detracts from this, while others follow a similar train of thought and see the addition of third-party characters as coming at the expense of first/second-party characters who would make for an excellent addition to the games. Conversely, other fans (including people at Nintendo itself, notably) tend to see ''Smash'' nowadays as a celebration of video games as a whole (that just happens to be made by Nintendo exclusively for their current console) and that being in ''Smash'' is the highest honor that any video game character can get, so thus, there being a bevy of third-party characters is no big deal. Even some people who don't care for them acknowledge that their inclusion gets people who don't care about/aren't fans of Nintendo's franchises to buy ''Smash'' just to try out the third-party character they like. The debate got especially heated during ''Ultimate''[='=]s life-cycle due to not only all of the previous third-party characters returning, but adding three more in the base roster and eight more via [[DownloadableContent the Fighters Passes]] on top of that, for a total of 18; to put that into perspective, over 1/5th of the current ''Smash'' roster has now hailed from third-parties[[note]]Those being ''Franchise/MetalGear''[='=]s Solid Snake from Creator/{{Konami}}, Creator/{{Sega}}'s Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog, Creator/{{Capcom}}'s Franchise/MegaMan, Creator/BandaiNamcoEntertainment's VideoGame/PacMan and [[Franchise/{{Tekken}} Kazuya Mishima]], ''Franchise/StreetFighter''[='=]s Ryu and Ken from Creator/{{Capcom}}, ''VideoGame/FinalFantasyVII''[='=]s Cloud Strife and Sephiroth from Creator/SquareEnix, VideoGame/{{Bayonetta}} (whose games, granted, are still ''published'' by Nintendo despite being developed by Creator/PlatinumGames and the IP owned by Creator/{{Sega}}), ''Franchise/{{Castlevania}}''[='=]s Simon and Richter Belmont from Creator/{{Konami}}, ''VideoGame/Persona5''[='=]s Joker from Creator/{{Atlus}}, the Heroes of Creator/SquareEnix's ''Franchise/DragonQuest'', VideoGame/BanjoKazooie (which ''used'' to be a second-party Nintendo property before developer Creator/{{Rare}}'s sale to [[Creator/XboxGameStudios Microsoft]]), Creator/{{SNK}}'s [[VideoGame/FatalFury Terry]] [[VideoGame/TheKingOfFighters Bogard]], ''VideoGame/{{Minecraft}}''[='=]s Steve from Creator/XboxGameStudios (previously Mojang), and ''Franchise/KingdomHearts''[='s=] Sora from Creator/{{Disney}}[[/note]].

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[HighTierScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBU) the tier list]]. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a HighTierScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

%%* '''[[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Sonic]]''': It should come as no surprise that one of the most base breaking franchises of all time cannot quite agree on the Blue Blur. Due to Sakurai specifically basing him on the classic games with SimpleButAwesome being the core of his moveset (matching the Mega Drive quadrilogy), it did not appeal to the entire fan base. Fans of Sonic in Smash like the nostalgic throwback of the original games and references of the obscure CultClassic, ''VideoGame/SonicTheFighters''. Detractors of the moveset find it boring, wishing for more references to the ''Adventure'' sub series and ''VideoGame/SonicBattle'' series.

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Piranha Plant]]''': Is it a [[RuleOfFun fun]], [[FightingClown quirky]] addition that manages to be the type of completely unpredictable and objectively ironic inclusion [[UnexpectedCharacter/SuperSmashBros the series is known for]]? Or is it a lame novelty that wore out its welcome shortly after its reveal and "stole" the ''Mario'' DLC spot from several of the franchise's more requested characters, like ([[VideoGame/CaptainToadTreasureTracker Captain]]) [[VideoGame/SuperMarioBros2 Toad]], [[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]], [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Mallow and Geno]]? It debuting as a LowTierLetdown on release did not help matters in the slightest.

* '''The Better Adventure Mode''': Some prefer the Subspace Emissary because it felt more like an adventure, with beautifully designed cutscenes with lots of action and humor, and having platforming and exploration to break up the fights, in addition to having co-op, while others criticized it for its generic locales and enemies at the expense of references to games the characters were from. Others prefer World of Light because while there weren't as many cutscenes, they felt it was unimportant and the sheer amount of content and bevy of references to hundreds of games from Nintendo's back catalog and other companies' libraries made up for it but was criticized by many for [[EndingFatigue going on too long]], being very shallow and repetitive, and having no actual platforming levels. There's also ''Melee's'' adventure mode, which was the shortest of them all as an alternative to Classic Mode, but was praised for its structure, great tributes to the characters' franchises, and hidden secret battles.

* '''Spirits Becoming {{Playable Character}}s''': After ''Ultimate''[='s=] launch, there was infighting over whether characters who appear in the game as spirits could be [=DLC=] fighters or not. One camp said that being a spirit in the base game meant a character could be DLC, and one camp said that being a spirit disqualified the character.[[note]]For context, a Spirit is a character who had their physical body outright destroyed by Galeem's attack, rather than merely captured. In the ''World of Light'' adventure mode, the spirits of these characters were forced into mass-produced "shells" of the captured fighters. Another thing to note is that virtually all characters in the game have spirits: Playable characters have Fighter Spirits (which are just like trophies in previous games in that they don't do anything in gameplay), characters that run facilities like shops and dojos are Master Spirits, and everything else is sorted between primary and support spirits. DLC fighters will inevitably get a Fighter Spirit to go along with it. So the argument boils down to "is the Smash development team willing to ignore the lore of ''World of Light'' they've set up and introduce a new fighter who is represented by both a Fighter Spirit and a Master/Primary/Support spirit (possibly using the same character art) who would be able to equip themselves in gameplay".[[/note]] Nothing in Fighters Pass Volume 1 proved either side to be correct: the first four members of the first Fighters Pass (Joker, Hero, Banjo & Kazooie, and Terry) are from series that are entirely new to ''Smash'', and Byleth is from a game that was released after ''Ultimate'' that had no spirits before they joined. As an aside, Piranha Plant was always planned to be DLC during the base game's development, so the base game's list of spirits reflects this. As of [[VideoGame/FireEmblemThreeHouses Byleth]]'s introduction, there's also the fact that old spirits can be renamed, as ''Zelda''[='s=] [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaOracleGames Dimitri]] and [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaALinkBetweenWorlds Hilda]] had the name of their origin series added to differentiate them from the [[NamesTheSame same-named]] characters from ''Three Houses'', and as of the ''VideoGame/{{Cuphead}}'' spirit event, there's the fact that Spirit Battles can be changed depending on whether or not you own the DLC.[[note]]If you do own the ''Cuphead'' DLC, every ''Cuphead'' spirit uses "Floral Fury" as the song, and Cuphead and Mugman are represented by Mii Gunners in the Cuphead outfit, but if you don't, the battles use jazz-styled vanilla game music, and Cuphead and Mugman are instead represented by Mega Man puppet fighters.[[/note]] These debates can get heated as the sides argue that certain popular character requests who are all in the base game as spirits, like [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]], [[Franchise/{{Kirby}} Bandana Waddle Dee]], and VideoGame/{{Rayman}}[[note]]but not Assist Trophies or Mii Costumes, like [[VideoGame/GoldenSun Isaac]], [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Waluigi]], [[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Shadow]], [[VideoGame/TheLegendOfZeldaMajorasMask Skull Kid]], VideoGame/ShovelKnight, [[VideoGame/MegaManX Zero]], [[VideoGame/NoMoreHeroes Travis Touchdown]], [[VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia Lloyd Irving]], [[VideoGame/DevilMayCry Dante]], or VideoGame/{{Shantae}}; ''those'' debates get ''[[FlameWar even uglier]]'', as do conversations about [=DLC=] and Event Spirits like [[Franchise/ResidentEvil Jill Valentine]][[/note]], can or can't be implemented as [=DLC=] fighters in the future. It took until June 22, 2020 to settle the debate once and for all; Min Min from ''VideoGame/{{ARMS}}'' was the first character in Fighters Pass, Volume 2, and she was already a spirit when this happened. The reveal of Min Min thus proved that characters who are spirits within the base game are eligible to become full-fledged fighters[[note]]It also answers the question posed above: Min Min has both a Fighter Spirit and a Primary Spirit that can be equipped. Her fighter spirit is a different image of her (labeled as "Min Min (Fighter)") and her original spirit battle remains unchanged (and still uses a female Corrin as a puppet fighter). You can also equip Min Min with herself if you really want to[[/note]].

* '''Swordfighters''': The idea that there are too many characters who fight with swords is a recurring point of mockery for a major chunk of the player base, deriding how it makes several characters feel similar and especially how the games insist on adding ''Fire Emblem'' sword-users when the series has a variety of weapons to choose from. The other side argues it is a needless complaint, especially when taking into account how a similar number of characters fight with their hands/feet or with guns and that in a series with multiple types of weapon, such as ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', [[HeroesPreferSwords it's customary for the main character]] (i.e. the one with the best chance of being featured in a large-scale crossover like ''Smash'') [[HeroesPreferSwords to use a sword]] as their WeaponOfChoice.

* '''[[Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog Sonic]]''': It should come as no surprise that one of the most base breaking franchises of all time cannot quite agree on the Blue Blur. Due to Sakurai specifically basing him on the classic games with SimpleButAwesome being the core of his moveset (matching the Mega Drive quadrilogy), it did not appeal to the entire fan base. Fans of Sonic in Smash like the nostalgic throwback of the original games and references of the obscure CultClassic, ''VideoGame/SonicTheFighters''. Detractors of the moveset find it boring, wishing for more references to the ''Adventure'' sub series and ''VideoGame/SonicBattle'' series.

* '''Mii Costumes''': While the Miis started out as [[EnsembleDarkhorse Ensemble Darkhorses]] in ''Ultimate'' due to much-appreciated buffs, better customization options, and outfits of popular characters like Sans making Mii Gunner a BreakoutCharacter, the costumes started to become contentious when highly-requested characters like Geno, Travis Touchdown, Dante, Shantae, or Doomguy/the Doom Slayer became Mii Costumes. Some fans appreciate that the developers were trying to make the characters as playable as possible with limited DLC character slots that were [[ExecutiveMeddling already chosen by Nintendo and approved by Sakurai,]] but the intense speculation and existing BrokenBase on who might get in, or who "deserves" to get in, combined with the Fighter's Passes being finished, meant that many saw these Mii Costumes as "deconfirmations" that don't always suit the character the costume is mimicking, thanks to the Miis' vanilla moves and cartoony proportions. The limited playerbase of Mii characters, as well as the Swordfighter and Gunner having bad reputations as "spammy zoners" in the community, don't help matters as despite the costumes, most still see the Miis as only Miis in the end, and believe their requested character deserves better.

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[TierInducedScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, and also top 10 in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'', with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. On the other hand, in every game except ''64'', [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBM) it has few]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBB) professionals relative to]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSB4) its position on]] [[https://www.ssbwiki.com/Category:Pikachu_professionals_(SSBU) the tier list]]. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a TierInducedScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

* The ''[=for 3DS/Wii U=]'' version of '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Charizard]]''': Did Charizard deserve to be its own character separate from the Pokémon Trainer? Was it [[PopularityPower popular and iconic enough]] to warrant that status, or was it just unfair to Bulbasaur (Ivysaur) and Squirtle fans? Did its solo moveset make it into a solid heavyweight or a dysfunctional character (especially given its TierInducedScrappy status early on in the game's lifespan) due to it still using a moveset designed to work on its former team? And did the Trainer's return in ''Ultimate'' fix the aforementioned problems by providing fans of all three starters with a viable and dynamic team character, or did it strip Charizard of its identity, make it more inconvenient to solo-main it, and make it seem out of place next to Greninja and Incineroar as solo characters (along with Mewtwo and Lucario still using Mega Evolution for their Final Smashes)? Worth noting is that the Pokémon Trainer achieved an abysmal 54th place in the 2021 Japanese popularity poll, despite the character slot consisting of five very popular entities (including Charizard) and the poll winner being another transforming character (Pyra/Mythra); it can be deduced that some fans simply prefer the starter Pokémon to have their own identity.

* '''[[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Piranha Plant]]''': Is it a [[RuleOfFun fun]], [[FightingClown quirky]] addition that manages to be the type of completely unpredictable and objectively ironic inclusion [[UnexpectedCharacter/SuperSmashBros the series is known for]]? Or is it a lame novelty that wore out its welcome shortly after its reveal and "stole" the ''Mario'' DLC spot from several of the franchise's more requested characters, like ([[VideoGame/CaptainToadTreasureTracker Captain]]) [[VideoGame/SuperMarioBros2 Toad]], [[VideoGame/MarioTennis Waluigi]], [[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Mallow and Geno]]? It debuting as a low TierInducedScrappy on release did not help matters in the slightest.

** '''Banning [[TierInducedScrappy/SuperSmashBros Meta Knight]]''': In the ''Brawl'' competitive scene, Meta Knight outclassed every character in the game, causing an over-centralized meta-game involving playing Meta Knight and trying to beat him. One party wanted him banned out of fear that he was making the game too stale and that viewership/entrants would die out due to his overt presence, as well as annoyance over how dominant he was. The other party, consisting of the people who played him/liked him, were against it, as he was ultimately in a boat to the similarly powerful ''Melee'' Fox, where despite being so dominant, he could still be fun to watch/play, and removing a player's main from the game would gimp too many people. The test of time reveals that the former group had the right idea[[note]]in part because Fox in ''Melee'' required a high degree of technical skill to play as effectively, while Meta Knight in ''Brawl'' required significantly less skill to use well[[/note]], but only after the conflict became so vicious that the ''Brawl'' competitive scene died from the fire.

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[TierInducedScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a TierInducedScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

* '''The Better Adventure Mode''': Some prefer the Subspace Emissary because it felt more like an adventure, with beautifully designed cutscenes with lots of action and humor, and having platforming and exploration to break up the fights, in addition to having co-op, while others criticized it for it’s generic locales and enemies at the expense of references to games the characters were from. Others prefer World of Light because while there weren't as many cutscenes, they felt it was unimportant and the sheer amount of content and bevy of references to hundreds of games from Nintendo's back catalog and other companies' libraries made up for it but was criticized by many for [[EndingFatigue going on too long]], being very shallow and repetitive, and having no actual platforming levels. There's also ''Melee's'' adventure mode, which was the shortest of them all as an alternative to Classic Mode, but was praised for its structure, great tributes to the characters' franchises, and hidden secret battles.

* '''The Better Adventure Mode''': Some prefer the Subspace Emissary because it felt more like an adventure, with beautifully designed cutscenes with lots of action and humor, and having platforming and exploration to break up the fights, in addition to having co-op. Others prefer World of Light because while there weren't as many cutscenes, they felt it was unimportant and the sheer amount of content and bevy of references to hundreds of games from Nintendo's back catalog and other companies' libraries made up for it. There's also ''Melee's'' adventure mode, which was the shortest of them all as an alternative to Classic Mode, but was praised for its structure, great tributes to the characters' franchises, and hidden secret battles.

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Jigglypuff]]''': When Jigglypuff was first included in ''64'', it was one of the more popular characters in [[Anime/PokemonTheSeries the anime]], but as time went on the character went out of focus, causing a drastic drop in overall popularity; despite this, Jigglypuff has a perfect attendance record in all ''Smash'' titles. One half of the fandom values the character despite how out of place it is, usually due to nostalgia and a feeling of fondness for it being one of the original 12 characters. The other half loathes it for [[GrandfatherClause existing for the sake of tradition]], accusing it of stealing roster spots from more desired characters, whether they be newcomers or veterans. 20 years of fighting later, ''Ultimate'' finally laid the argument to rest at E3 2018, where every single veteran made their return and several highly coveted newcomers ([[VideoGame/{{Splatoon}} the Inklings]], [[Franchise/SuperMarioBros Daisy]], and [[Franchise/{{Metroid}} Ridley]]) were introduced in one fell swoop, satisfying both ends of the spectrum at last - although debates remain on whether it should stay for the inevitable roster cuts coming to ''Smash'' games after ''Ultimate''.

** '''Perceived Under-Representation''': On the flipside, there are some franchises that have generally decent representation, but are perceived as having "too little" content. Especially when they're being compared to, once again, ''Fire Emblem''. The main issue lies with the number of fighters a series has being the main, if not the only, measure used to determine how much a series is represented. The main series that people bring up the most as being "under-represented" is ''Franchise/TheLegendOfZelda''.[[note]]It currently has 6 fighters in it, but oftentimes its thought of as too little because 3 of them are a form of Link (Link, Young Link and Toon Link), Shiek and Zelda are thought of as the same character, since they were in ''Melee'' and ''Brawl'' until they were [[DecompositeCharacter made seperate characters]] and Ganondorf, who, due to time constraints, was introduced in Melee as a semi-clone of [[VideoGame/FZero Captain Falcon]], a character from a completely different series, and [[TheArtifact has largely stuck to that design since]][[/note]]. This focus on the series' fighter representation over anything else can be for a multitude of reasons: Official promotional materials and FanArt for ''Smash'' both prioritize fighters more than any form of NPC, TournamentPlay prevents Assist Trophies and most stage cameos from getting a chance to be seen, Miis (and therefore Mii Costumes) are rarely used in competitive play, and there's a general desire to play as an EnsembleDarkhorse rather than a form of Link/Zelda/Ganon, or a Mii that bears a passing resemblance to them at best. However, thinking that "representation" only counts for fighters is still a trap that many fans fall into. So, despite the fact that ''Zelda'' as a franchise has a good amount of representation outside of fighters[[note]]9 stages, 45 music tracks, 8 items, 4 assist trophies, 8 Mii Costumes, a boss (Ganon), and an entire section in the ''World of Light'' campaign[[/note]], the bias towards fighters leads people to think the series is under-represented.
* '''Swordfighters''': The idea that there are too many characters who fight with swords is a recurring point of mockery for a major chunk of the player base, deriding how it makes several characters feel similar and especially how the games insist on adding ''Fire Emblem'' sword-users when the series has a variety of weapons to choose from. The other side argues it is a needless complaint, especially when taking into account how a similar number of characters fight with their hands/feet or with guns and that in a series with multiple types of weapon, such as ''Franchise/FireEmblem'', [[HeroesPreferSwords it's customary for the main character]] (i.e. the one with the best chance of being featured in a large-scale crossover like ''Smash'') [[HeroesPreferSwords to use a sword]] as his/her WeaponOfChoice.

* '''[[VideoGame/XenobladeChronicles2 Rex]] Not Being Playable''': Despite being a BaseBreakingCharacter in his home game, he was highly requested during the pre-release phase of ''Ultimate'' and was commonly speculated as a duo fighter with the Aegis, only for his chances to have been seemingly nipped in the bud with the announcement of his Mii Costume as a purchase bonus for the first Fighters Pass, much to the dismay of many of his supporters. Min Min's announcement roughly 2 years later would then revive hope for his inclusion due to both of their home games being unable to get fighters in the base game due to time constraints, only for Pyra and Mythra to be the playable representatives of the game instead of him about another year later[[note]]He'd still have occasional appearances in their moveset, similar to Chrom in ''Smash 4''[[/note]]. Even after the March presentation revealed he was initially planned and was only dropped due to hardware limitations, along with his wide presence for a "support character", fans within both the ''Smash'' and ''Xenoblade'' fandoms have been split on whether this was the right choice. Those content with Pyra and Mythra state that their inclusion is justified given their [[PopularityPower popularity]], and they offer a more unique experience with them being semiclones of each other and their ability to swap. Those who wanted a playable Rex feel how only the Aegis being playable sides with his detractors[[labelnote:*]](A joke in the presentation didn't help this either)[[/labelnote]], plays favoritism to those [[MsFanservice solely attracted to them for their looks]], and worsens an existing FandomEnragingMisconception for their home game, citing how surface-level arguments about [[BestKnownForTheFanservice their designs and if they're all there is to the game]] were reignited following the reveal. Another camp who wanted both him and the Aegis playable also lament how the Driver and Blade system could not be translated to ''Smash'', with some also saying the reveal [[YankTheDogsChain cheated them with how the trailer's buildup was framed]] looked like they were indeed going to be a duo fighter as previously speculated. The ambiguity of ''Smash's'' future after ''Ultimate'' certainly doesn't help this, meaning it's uncertain if Rex will even get a chance to become playable in a future installment much like Chrom before him, let alone if the Aegis (or even Shulk) will return as well.

* '''[[EasternRPG JRPG]] fans vs [[PlatformGame Platformer]] fans''': Starting after Pyra & Mythra's addition, these two groups got into {{Flame War}}s (and associated memes with the [=Swordguy McJRPG=] and Scrimblo Bimblo posts) over whether the final two DLC fighters should be from their favored genres, as well as claims from the platformer crowd that the sudden influx of JRPG characters [[labelnote:For reference]]''Ultimate'' added Chrom, Joker, Hero, Byleth, Sephiroth, and Pyra & Mythra (as well as Incineroar, but ''Pokémon'' tends to be discounted due to it not often using tropes associated with the genre)[[/labelnote]] takes away from chances for other popular platformer characters to be showcased in the game. JRPG fans often point out that ''Smash'' and a vast majority of the companies involved in its production and licenses are Japanese, and that platformer fans shouldn't write off the chances of a JRPG character, considering how big the genre is in the country where ''Smash'' is centered and the genre has been getting awareness that's been steadily growing bigger since 2017. Another point that is brought up is that the base game already had quite a few characters from Platformers[[note]]Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Samus, Kirby, Sonic, Pit, Simon, and Mega Man are the major ones, and this isn't even including other characters who also come from the same series as them or franchises in other genres who have had platforming games, like Pac-Man. However, like with Incineroar, Samus, Simon and their ilk and occasionally Pit are excluded from the entire "Scrimblo Bimblo" stereotype due to their not using tropes associated with the platforming genre.[[/note]]. Platformer fans often point out that nearly every JRPG represented in ''Smash'' revolves around {{Animesque}} protagonist humans, humanoids, or HumansByAnyOtherName wielding a sword (tying into the "anime swordfighter" debates) when there are dozens of [=JRPGs=] that go outside of that mold, and that "Scrimblo Bimblo" is a false equivalency since most platformer characters are designed to be diverse in appearance and behavior. Meanwhile, other people who don't have a horse on either side think that both JRPG ''and'' platformer fans have no room to fight over who "deserves" new content, as they both already have solid representation, when there are several other genres, such as {{rhythm game}}s, {{racing game}}s, {{puzzle game}}s, [[BeatEmUp beat 'em ups]], [[ShootEmUp shoot 'em ups]], and [[FirstPersonShooter first-person]] and [[ThirdPersonShooter third-person]] shooters, that have little-to-nothing in ''Smash'' and could use the representation much more than those two. Both sides would later take an L when the second last choice turned out to be Kazuya Mishima from the ''Franchise/{{Tekken}}'' series, a FightingGame character. Later still, both sides would actually win out with the same final character: Sora from ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' who happens to have elements of what both sides would want.

!![[BaseBreakingCharacter Characters]]

!![[BrokenBase General]]

* '''[[Franchise/{{Pokemon}} Pikachu]]''': A base-breaking SeriesMascot in its home series, Pikachu is generally well-received in ''Smash'' but one particular aspect causes it to retain this status: [[TierInducedScrappy its gameplay mechanics]]. In all its appearances, Pikachu has been a small, hard-to-hit, very speedy combo-oriented character who can completely ''invalidate'' some taller and/or slower characters. This got to the point that it's been one of the absolute best characters in ''64'', ''[=3DS/Wii U=]'' '''and''' ''Ultimate'' at some point, with even some of its matchups against fellow top tiers approaching CurbStompBattle status. Combined with the reasons for its contention in its home series and its cutesy voice and design becoming much more irritating in a heated battle,[[note]]which, in any other context, are [[RidiculouslyCuteCritter part of the appeal of Pikachu's character]],[[/note]] many are sick of Pikachu automatically making life hell for any tall and/or heavy characters that may join the roster and wish it could be fundamentally rebalanced to make things fairer for the rest of the cast. This reached a head with MovesetClone Pichu in early versions of ''Ultimate'', which embodied every criticism of Pikachu UpToEleven: nigh-impossible to hit, extremely dominating and damaging combos, and overly skewed matchups in its favor, all topped off with its overly cutesy design, voice and presentation making it ''infuriating'' to face in intense competitive matches. Before it got {{Nerf}}ed, ''Ultimate'' Pichu was one of the strongest examples of a TierInducedScrappy in the entire series, and an exaggerated demonstration of why many players groan when facing its big brother.

* '''[[EasternRPG JRPG]] fans vs [[PlatformGame Platformer]] fans''': Starting after Pyra & Mythra's addition, these two groups got into {{Flame War}}s (and associated memes with the [=Swordguy McJRPG=] and Scrimblo Bimblo posts) over whether the final two DLC fighters should be from their favored genres, as well as claims from the platformer crowd that the sudden influx of JRPG characters [[labelnote:For reference]]''Ultimate'' added Chrom, Joker, Hero, Byleth, Sephiroth, and Pyra & Mythra (as well as Incineroar, but ''Pokémon'' tends to be discounted due to it not often using tropes associated with the genre)[[/labelnote]] takes away from chances for other popular platformer characters to be showcased in the game. JRPG fans often point out that ''Smash'' and a vast majority of the companies involved in its production and licenses are Japanese, and that platformer fans shouldn't write off the chances of a JRPG character, considering how big the genre is in the country where ''Smash'' is centered. Another point that is brought up is that the base game already had quite a few characters from Platformers[[note]]Mario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Samus, Kirby, Sonic, Pit, Simon, and Mega Man are the major ones, and this isn't even including other characters who also come from the same series as them or franchises in other genres who have had platforming games, like Pac-Man. However, like with Incineroar, Samus, Simon and their ilk and occasionally Pit are excluded from the entire "Scrimblo Bimblo" stereotype due to their not using tropes associated with the platforming genre.[[/note]]. Platformer fans often point out that nearly every JRPG represented in ''Smash'' revolves around {{Animesque}} protagonist humans, humanoids, or HumansByAnyOtherName wielding a sword (tying into the "anime swordfighter" debates) when there are dozens of [=JRPGs=] that go outside of that mold, and that "Scrimblo Bimblo" is a false equivalency since most platformer characters are designed to be diverse in appearance and behavior. Meanwhile, other people who don't have a horse on either side think that both JRPG ''and'' platformer fans have no room to fight over who "deserves" new content, as they both already have solid representation, when there are several other genres, such as {{rhythm game}}s, {{racing game}}s, {{puzzle game}}s, [[BeatEmUp beat 'em ups]], [[ShootEmUp shoot 'em ups]], and [[FirstPersonShooter first-person]] and [[ThirdPersonShooter third-person]] shooters, that have little-to-nothing in ''Smash'' and could use the representation much more than those two. Both sides would later take an L when the second last choice turned out to be Kazuya Mishima from the ''Franchise/{{Tekken}}'' series, a FightingGame character. Later still, both sides would actually win out with the same final character: Sora from ''Franchise/KingdomHearts'' who happens to have elements of what both sides would want.

* '''[[SpotlightStealingCrossover Perceived Over-representation]]''': Multiple franchises have been hit with periodic outrage, arguing that they have too much focus on them, while smaller series languish from a lack of content. The fans of those franchises are similarly vocal in their pleasure that their series is receiving so much love, and point out how it's the right of the developers/publishers to decide what's most deserving of a push or not. People are generally understanding of this treatment being given to ''Mario'' and ''Pokémon'', which are Nintendo's two biggest and most popular franchises with LoadsAndLoadsOfCharacters, as well as ''Kirby'' given that it's Sakurai's brainchild and Kirby is one of the most popular characters in every game he's in, but other series with more than one or two characters have fallen into this on occasion.

* '''[[VideoGame/SuperMarioRPG Geno]]''': Despite never being actually playable (sort of, more on that later), few characters have been discussed this much within the ''Smash'' newcomer speculation community. Geno, since he hasn't been made playable, tends to attract discussion about both how he is and isn't represented. Fans of this character from this collaboration between Creator/{{Nintendo}} and Squaresoft (before they merged with Enix to become Creator/SquareEnix) have been campaigning for years to get Nintendo, Sakurai or anyone involved in ''Smash'' to add this possessed doll to the playable roster. This is due the idea that ''Super Smash Bros.'' as a series is like a museum dedicated to video games and would love the idea of the spotlight being cast on a game (''Super Mario RPG'' in this case) that fans deem emblematic to gaming, as well as its subsequent {{Spiritual Successor}}s that also don't receive much representation. Detractors often don't see what the big deal about Geno is and feel that he's a bit too deep of a cut for a fighter for most ''Smash'' players, especially since his only major appearance was in a single game from 1996 [[note]]Granted, it isn't unusual for a playable character(s) to only have been in one game, like the Ice Climbers who only appear in ''Ice Climber'', but Geno being a ''Mario'' character that is owned by Square Enix (rather then being fully owned by Nintendo) probably has something to do with his very scant appearances outside of ''Super Mario RPG''[[/note]]. Fans often cite that [[https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/21/nintendodream3/ Sakurai has wanted Geno in the series for years]], but factors such as cooperation with Square Enix[[note]]The company has built up a reputation within the Smash community as being "stingy" with allowing their content within the game, although this has been alleviated from the DLC packs of Hero and especially Sephiroth, who came with spirits and more music tracks from ''Final Fantasy VII''.[[/note]] and apathy on Nintendo's part[[note]]In regards to more recent ''Mario'' RPG titles, Nintendo has been more restrictive on how the story and characters within the ''Mario'' Universe can be portrayed, but this is a different issue that can't be delved into now. Another rumored explanation on Nintendo's non-commitment to adding Geno to ''Smash'' is that they've heard the fan outcry for his inclusion, but are also perplexed by a lack of interest in the rest of the game. They don't see a fan demand for a re-release or remake of ''Super Mario RPG'' on the same level as Geno appearing in ''Smash'' as a fighter.[[/note]] have prevented this from happening. Geno fans often fire back that detractors dedicating their online presence to wanting other people to not be happy only further taints the already infamously toxic ''Smash'' fanbase, especially since detractors often seem to seek out Geno fans specifically ''to'' insult them and their wants, even on [[https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1369120757423296512 tweets made by Sakurai himself that happen to contain or reference Geno]]. Detractors retort that like with multiple other frequently-requested characters before him, it gets irritating seeing people touting Geno in their newcomer request and expectation lists so frequently, to the point of stymying conversation on other characters' chances. Geno being acknowledged in ''Smash 4'' with a Mii Gunner costume gave his fans hope that he'd appear as a proper fighter in the next game (especially when the infamous "Grinch Leak" implicated him among several other fan requests), but he only appeared as an equippable Spirit in base ''Ultimate''. Many of his fans held onto hope that he'd be included as DLC when his costume wasn't shown in "Mr. Sakurai Presents "Hero"", especially after Min Min proved that spirits within the base game can be "upgraded" to a fighter... but then the Geno Mii from ''Smash 4'' was unceremoniously announced more than a year later in "Mr. Sakurai Presents "Sephiroth"", with its only major change being additional cape physics. This event caused a lot of gloating among his detractors, much to the disdain of Geno fans. Similar situations have occurred with other highly requested characters being revealed as Mii costumes or Assist Trophies. And sure enough, by the time ''Ultimate'''s DLC cycle ended, Geno was not made playable, forcing his disgruntled fanbase to wait even longer for the next ''Smash'' game (which could take between 4 to 8 years) for another chance at Geno's playability.

* '''[[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening Chrom]]''': As another ''Fire Emblem'' character, this reaction was inevitable. As the face of [[VideoGame/FireEmblemAwakening the most popular game in the franchise]], some feel his inclusion is welcome, while others find him to be an insulting addition. Even among ''Fire Emblem'' fans, some find his inclusion to be indicative of favoritism to the 3DS era of games. On the flip side, some find him to be a harmless addition, given that he's simply an echo fighter of Roy rather than a full-fledged newcomer, and was revealed alongside multiple fighters they prefer.