Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Working Title: Too Evil even for Villains: From YKTTW

Kizor: I've never seen Grosse Pointe Blank, but the French government did, in fact, sink a Greenpeace boat in New Zealand, killing one. The agents were wormed out of murder charges, but New Zealand found out who was responsible for its first act of terrorism and was pissed off.

Jordan: Good point, I wasn't sure whether or not to add that detail- it was definitely meant as an inside joke in the movie.

arromdee: Note that the Magneto reference I added is not a Justifying Edit. That page says that "for the vast majority of tropes, whether or not the writer did it on purpose and whether or not it "makes sense" in context is really neither here nor there". Since this trope is about the writer doing it to show that the evil is really bad, the writer's intentions do matter.

Nasrudith: Would NetHack count for an example? While not named as such the chaos alignment does have the loosest morals and are rewarded for summoning demons but even then the gods hate disloyalty to your pets, and sacrificing to the Big Bad and attacking peaceful creatures. Amusingly eating cats or dogs also angers them, the may be evil but eating kittens is just wrong apparently.

What about school bullies? Picking on children who are deemed uncool? All fine and dandy? Picking on children who happen to be very sick? Now, that's going too far!

Large Blunt Object: Four quotes, three of which aren't directly related. Pulling them.
  • ...and then I go and leave in the wrong one, argh.

Uknown Troper: I'd say the Doctor Doom one was, moreso than the others even. I mean, Doom's a world-conquering maniac — and they made him cry over a real-life terror attack. Which, apparently, goes to show just how nasty Bin Laden is by making the Evil Overlord cry.

Large Blunt Object:, it does fit, but it's a pretty poor quote in itself, and Even Evil Has Standards doesn't seem to be the point being made. Put it back in if you think it deserves it... but use the proper indent this time, please? :(

Bob: The quotes, saved for posterity:

"...J. Michael Straczynski wrote a comic book explaining the WTC tragedy from superheroes' perspective. And in it, Dr. Doom cried. Yes, the evil mastermind who shot the Fantastic Four's building into space and who contributes to 80 percent of the world's daily robodeath.. he was really broken up by this slight variation of his every waking moment."

"I'm crazy enough to take on Batman, but the IRS? No thank you!"
"Feelin's? Look mate, you know what has a lot of feelin's? Blokes what bludgeon their wife to death with a golf trophy. Professionals have standards."
—The Sniper, Team Fortress 2

Vampire Buddha, natter killer, strikes!
  • Since it's the Joker, we'll probably never know if he was being genuinely patriotic or playing the irony card. This troper's guess is the latter; Joker's very capable of atrocities on the level of Nazi war crimes.
    *** Possibly the former: In the "Joker's Last Laugh" Secret Files, the Joker is incarcerated in the supervillain prison called The Slab, where he is asked "Have you considered joining the Aryan Nation, Herr Joker?" The Clown Prince of Crime turns the offer down flat, muttering that even he has standards as he walks away in disgust.
    *** Come now. This is the Joker. The answer is clearly "both".
    *** Strange, considering you can't get much whiter than the Joker
    *** Unless we're talking about Kevin Michael Richardson's portrayal of Joker.
    *** Hate crimes are too banal for the Joker; there's simply no style to them.
    *** This troper thinks it has more to do with Nazis, as fascists, being Lawful Evil, while Joker is Chaotic Evil.
    *** We have the quotes wiki now;moved to quotes wiki.

** There's also the part where, if Doom genuinely felt offended by Osama bin Laden's actions, Osama's incinerated corpse should have been dropped on the front steps of the UN building by September 12th. And yet this did not happen. It could have been a diplomatic thing, of course.
*** Hey, if Doctor Doom blows up a building, at least he has a master plan. There was no master plan. This was just done solely to make people scared. Doom was likely just disgusted at bin Laden's lack of elegance.
*** Which may in fact have been the master plan.
** This troper read it more to mean that Latverians and mutants were working in the WTC. There were also, in Real Life, many Jews in the WTC when it was hit, and since Lehnsherr himself is generally presented as Jewish (to say nothing of Al Qaeda's views of Jews in general)...
** Kingpin was also present, and his being there, at least, is both understandable and in-character; he is easily the most human of Marvel's irredeemable villains, and he thinks of New York as his city. And no one screws with anything the Kingpin considers his.
arromdee: I moved Grosse Pointe Blank, and my own Darkness example, to Hitman with a Heart, which is really a subset of this anyway.

Praetyre: You know, I recall a conversation from Destroy All Humans! 2 where Crypto is trying to convert the Black Ninjas to worship Arkvoodle that would be nearly perfect as a page quote. In it, Crypto can boast (in an attempt to prove how evil Arkvoodle is to the Black Ninjas) that Reality TV is Arkvoodle's "best work". After this, their leader describes it as "monstrous" and Crypto agrees. The leader then states "No, that's monstrous! That's too evil! Kill him!" or something along those lines.
SenatorJ: The below is subjective. According to the Karma Meter, the most objectively evil act in the game is blowing up Megaton, and that was something Bethesda proudly showed off prior to the game's release and the player can do with no PC hesitation. If you're talking about selling children into slavery or something like that, you may have a stronger case. However, that's still the player's standards, and not the PC's standards. For a little insight into player standards, keep in mind that there was a plugin to let you kill children that was developed before Bethesda released the plugin-development tools. If there are examples where the PC herself refuses to do something because it's too evil, no matter where the Karma Meter sits, then that would be an example of this trope.
  • In Fallout 3, alot of the eviler choices will instantly put a player off, no matter how evil they may want to be.

Praetyre: Cut two examples, one being the Daily Mail, the other a blog called Little Green Footballs. It is ridiculous to assert criticism and opposition to immigration makes you "evil", and by what exact criteria is LGF far-right (a poorly defined term if I ever saw one). The site seems to be lukewarm to Barack Obama and it barely even discusses anything outside of a few current events, The War on Terror and the recent Issue Drift to Creationism/ID.
Leaper: Pardon me for asking, but I asked in the forums specifically about this: the Nodwick reference I put in was moved to Comic Books, even though the particular strip I reference was NOT printed in a comic book by ANY measure. I asked in the forums what to do with it, and making a new section for Comic Strips or Magazine Comics was suggested. So that's what I did. Was this wrong?

Earnest: Nah. Some tropes have... less conventional categorizing out of necessity, what you did was by no means disruptive or wrong.

Tails Doll: Dumping this all here.

  • In Fallout 3, my character was willing to steal almost every item of food and drink he saw, and made a game out of shooting random citizens in the skull. Despite this, I still couldn't get him to nuke Megaton. Then again, it was more out of dislike of the rich jerks in Tenpenny Tower than anything else.
    • The earlier Fallout games featured the Karmic title "Childkiller", which can be gained after the hero kills with his/her own hand at least 2 children. This can result in negative reactions from a wide swath of NP Cs in the game, including some 'bad' ones.
    • My first character was an Affably Evil serial killer, but he would not stand for child slavery. He completed wiped them out and freed the children.
      • The first time this troper played through the Brotherhood missions, immediately after the "purification" of your family members, I went back and placed flowers in each of their chests. Granted, they were stolen flowers, (stolen from crypts and tombs,) but I think my heart was in the right place. WAAAAAHHHH!!! My poor little Antoinetta Marie! I'll never forget you!