This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
I'm not sure that Tolkien does this, indeed, I think he almost makes a point not to. Furthermore, he doesn't "explain" how things are done, nor does he ever equate the works of the Valar too some kind of science...could someone please clarify this to me?
Paul A: You're right. Whoever added Tolkien was thinking of Here There Were Dragons.
Jisu: The Sailor Moon paragraph:
This has nothing to do with removing the magic. A starseed is a solidified soul, and just because everyone has one doesn't mean that the senshi's aren't special. They are, and for no reason but magic. I think this was just a complaint against the anime's attempt to force their usual formula on a season that it didn't work for.
JChance: I'm actually not too sure about the Wild Arms example either...It's been largely set in a Magitek world from the word go, complete with no real differences between scientists and wizards. The only real case of Doing In the Wizard that I can see is the use of nanotech in WA 4.
Blork: Removed this example, because as stated right there in the description there is no change to any of the magical explanations of the previous films. Nothing that happens in the movie suggests any connection between the Crystal Skull and the other artifacts, it's just one more thing added to the Fantasy Kitchen Sink
- Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull: For the last three films Indy encountered artifacts that got their power derived from various gods (which is apparently still true for those), but in this movie it turns out that the crystal skull derives its powers not from gods but from aliens.
- To be fair, by the simplest definition, god is an "interdimensional being", just as much as the "aliens" in this movie"
Jisu: Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni doesn't fit here. The nature of Hinamizawa Syndrome is not a retcon but was planned from the start, and the introduction of Hanyuu and explanation of the Groundhog Day plot, both of which occur around the same time, keep gods and curses in the story.
- The original 1930s Blue Beetle gained superpowers from a magical beetle-shaped amulet from Ancient Egypt. The amulet recently resurfaced in a storyline revealing that it was actually a long-lost bit of Imported Alien Phlebotinum. Justified in that the alien race behind it, the Reach, have disguised many of their plans and weapons as "magic" so that no one would ask questions, while at the same time literally doing in wizards that could prove otherwise.
- Actually, it was the 60's version of the character who had the magic amulet. The Golden Age version, who was named Dan Garret, but was a police officer, got his powers from a chemical called vitamin-2x. It's quite similar to DC's Hour Man.
- No. It may have been a retcon applied during the 60's, but it was definitely Dan Garret who had the magical scarab. His successor was a Batmanesque rich-brat type.
- Actually, it was the 60's version of the character who had the magic amulet. The Golden Age version, who was named Dan Garret, but was a police officer, got his powers from a chemical called vitamin-2x. It's quite similar to DC's Hour Man.
For the record, a potted history of the Blue Beetle:
The zeroth Blue Beetle was policeman Dan Garret (with one t), who first appeared in 1939 and got his powers from vitamin-2x. The first Blue Beetle was archaeologist Dan Garrett (with 2 ts), who first appeared in 1964 and got his powers from the scarab amulet. The second Blue Beetle was inventor Ted Kord, who first appeared in 1966 and got his powers from gadgets he invented (the amulet having been lost when Garrett died). The third Blue Beetle is Jaime Reyes, who first appeared in 2006 and got his powers from the amulet which he rediscovered.
(The numbering is because Dan Garret dropped out of continuity when Dan Garrett was created, the same way Barry Allen originally replaced Jay Garrick and Hal Jordan originally replaced Alan Scott: and unlike Jay and Alan, nobody's ever cared to work him back into continuity.)
Conversation In The Main Page:
- In the opposite direction, it was once explained that Spider-Man didn't get his powers from a radioactive spider bite after all and his powers were passed to him by some mystical link with the spider during said bite which was intentional on the spider's part which was trying to pass on it's powers before the radiation killed it.
- Are you sure this is real?
- Stracyinski did it, yup. It's important to note that Spider-man himself disbelieved. His big Aesop was that who GIVES a flip if he's super because it's radioactive or a spider, he was bit by a radioactive spider, he's Spider-man. This was around the Genetic Engineering replacing Radiation time.
- Many fans do not recognize that this storyline actually happened.
- As of a certain storyline, it didn't
Conversation In The Main Page:
- Some biblical literary experts practice this by trying to justify biblical miracles with natural phenomena—but if Moses parting the sea was just a wave in a shallow sea, or the plague of frogs was just dropped by a tornado, or the burning bush was a whatever-you-might-call-it, it leaves this atheist wondering whether these possibilities make the stories more miraculous or less! Isn't the whole point of a miracle God doing something bigger than nature?
- This Christian troper is also scratching his head on this one.
- These are secular biblical literature scholars, not Christians.
- Although this troper is an atheist,there is a solid reason for a Christian to take such a line - the theory of "epistemic distance", that God can't make his existence an indisputable fact without damaging man's free will. God could defy the laws of nature if He wanted, but chooses to play by his own rules. This view also deals with the problems of why God does not perform obvious miracles anymore and why he doesn't just make all the nasty bad things go "poof". And of course, everyone thinks The Chess Master is cool. Such theological points, however, have a strange tendency to not make it into the sermons.}}
- Babelfish, anyone? "I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "Oh," says man, "but the Babel Fish is a dead give-away, isn't it? It proves You exist, and so therefore You don't." "Oh, I hadn't thought of that." says God, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
- The Babelfish argument is somewhat flawed because its premise is not part of traditional theology. And can't be when talking about God as the creator, since that would mean existing before the people he's supposedly reliant on for his existence via faith. Without faith God is still God and the Babelfish would be proof of His existence.
- The Babelfish argument was never meant as a serious argument, you know: the narration explicitly states that although "some thinkers" have chosen to regard it as clinching proof, most serious theologians discount it utterly.
- Terry Pratchett's explanation in Small Gods:
"Any mushrooms in these parts?"
"After the annual rains, yes. Red ones with yellow spots. The desert becomes really interesting after the mushroom season."
"Full of giant purple singing slugs? Talking pillars of flame? Exploding giraffes? That sort of thing?"
"Good heavens, yes. I don't know why. I think they're attracted by the mushrooms."
- I read that the ten plagues are symbolic desecrations of the Egyptian gods
- And remember the theory that Elijah was spirited away not by a flaming chariot from Heaven, but rather by a UFO? Seriously, as far as rational explanations go, that one's a lateral move at best.
<random troper>: The Virus is sometimes used to Retcon and/or Hand Wave supernatural stuff like zombies and vampires for more mainstream audiences e.g. The Movie. Would it count as a meta-level example of this trope?
joeyjojo: The Virus is just the topre's name. It's Doesn't actually have to be a virus.
Grimace: If I can ask, why was this taken out?
- Series 3 of Heroes seems to revolve around a supposed formula, that gives people their (randomised) ability. After spending the first two seasons establishing a sense of mystery about the sudden surge of "gifted" people, this feels a little bland. Of course, the plot is ongoing and not every character is synthetically powered, but still...
Seemed a perfectly valid entry to me. I mean, I could be wrong, but if you're going to delete a paragraph, could you at least take the time to point out why?
Joeyjojo: don't know who took it out but Heroes doesn't really count. it was shown in sesson 1 that their powers were a result of hereditary genetics.
what about satan 666, that explains away all the magic saying its advanced technology kinda
