Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.



((Mopeyennui)): Removed Himmler, because being sick at the sight of blood means nothing. (Neither does being a Vegan.)

Lale: Sounds like too much overlap with Enigmatic Minion, Well-Intentioned Extremist, and Knight Templar. What makes this one different? And isn't the Kim Possible example a Card-Carrying Villain?

Ununnilium: Lale: Well-Intentioned Extremist and Knight Templar are more about why they're doing what they're doing, while this is about how they do it. Enigmatic Minion is closer, but they're, well, enigmatic rather than explicitly nice. Plus, not all Affably Evil characters are minions.

Also, I'm taking out: Being Affably Evil is a trait of most, but not all, Magnificent Bastards. ...because that just plain ain't true. Most Magnificent Bastards that I've seen really do enjoy their enemies' pain.

Nezumi: Lale... regarding the Kim Possible example... as a long-time fan of the series, I'd have to say Senor Senior, Sr. is both. He's a Card-Carrying Villain who considers being evil his hobby, and enjoys it. However, from his very first appearance—before he was even a villain, as Ron accidentally inspired him to take up the "hobby" in that episode—onward, he's always been shown as polite, considerate, and an all-around nice guy... who just happens to be an evil mastermind. I know they seem to be conflicting tropes, but it's hardly the first time I've seen something borrow elements from two tropes that would seem mutually exclusive.

Guesss Who: Would you say that Hannibal Lecter is this way? He's so . . . polite.

Lecter speaks in cordial tones with an exquisite vocabulary but he's rude. He asks impertinently personal questions, says hurtful things, and threatens to eat people. Being well or soft spoken is different from being friendly.

Taelor: Agreed. Removing in three, two one. EDIT: I'm also taking out Mayuri Kurotsuchi, for the same reasons. Barring serious leather pants effect, there is nothing nice about Mayuri. Some people may find him to cool in a twisted sort off way, but in no way is he nice. His way of being polite, of showing his respect, is by offering to only torture you on weekdays. And then there's the time he bragged about murdering his own minions.

Seven Seals: I removed the Coulton excerpt, since we've already got that on Biological Mash Up, and the quotes were taking up more room than really warranted. Also, the protagonist of the song isn't that affable... just insane.

As an aside, the Pirates of Penzance excerpt seems much more appropriate for something like Punch-Clock Villain. After all, the emphasis is on how villains are really just doing their job, and are otherwise people like anybody else. Which is nonsense, of course, but the police in Penzance are less than dutiful.

ccoa: Removed the following example, since the villain in question isn't particularly affable.

  • Jehct, Tidus' father from Final Fantasy X was developed quite interestingly throughout the game. When the player first gets the inclination that he would be the final villain, the game paints him as sort of an abusive father who cared more about his career than family. However, as the game progresses, you find that, once joining with Sin, he couldn't really control his actions and had actually brought Tidus to Spira so that his son could destroy him.

Trogga: Isn't Dedede more of a Jerk with a Heart of Gold?

Jordan: I don't think Light really fits for this trope. True, he can be very charming, but it's always clear that this is a complete facade (hence all of the scenes with his eyes glowing red and him laughing malevolently).

Eponymous Kid: Yeah, the writeup implies that the mark of this is genuine kindness mixed in with nefarious villainy, rather than fake courtesy used to mask true intentions.

Ouroboros: This write up doesn't work. Its too similar to other tropes while at the same time too narrow as well. Its too specific while being too general, if you get what I mean, and as a result a lot of the examples listed don't really belong there.

Hokuto: Regarding Light, methinks he's the type that starts out as Affably Evil, as nothing more but an average schoolboy, but as the series progresses he begins to lose it until it becomes a complete facade. So, he's a subversion of sorts.

Ouroboros: They way this is written up makes it look like an Affably Evil character can't be a Complete Monster, as they're supposedly inherently nice people, yet Johan, one of the vilest creatures in modern fiction, is the first example. How the hell does that work? It either needs to be rewritten, or gone over with a fine tooth comb, because a bucket load of characters don't belong in that list.

Darth Howie: I think we just need to drop this paragraph and make a few other minor changes. Affably Evil should be about demeanor, not character, IMO. "Of course, if it ever comes to the affably evil villain having to dispose of the hero, they'll never use a Death Trap because, unlike most villains, they don't delight in their enemy's pain and consider it awfully inhumane and a waste of time. Which part of that matters more is entirely up to the villain, of course."

Ouroboros: Made some changes to the write up, now I'm a little more comfortable with the examples listed beneath. It is about demeanor, not character, and I tried to reflect that. Still, might need a bit of cleaning up.
Rothul: Changed picture for the following reasons:
  • 1. There is controversy as to whether Johann is indeed affably evil or just, well... a monster.
  • 2. It is noted that Johann is not actually being Affably Evil in the picture. "Ironically, the image above of Johan is most certainly not an example of Affably Evil in context; he is taunting a man who has been strugging with quitting drinking, which drove away his family. The man had been clean, though not without difficulty, for a year, and was going to meet his young daughter the next day. Enter Johan..."
  • 3. Johann is the already poster boy for the Complete Monster page, and indeed a much better example for that trope.
  • 4. The Mayor of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was much more Affably Evil than Johann ever was.

Original Johann photo used on page here
I removed the bit about Napolean being evil for ordering canons fired on ice enemies were fleeing across. It doesn't make sense to allow a mortal enemy to live to fight another day.
Do VIKI and the NS-5's from IRobot count? They are polite and calm in the world take over efforts.

The normally loyal robot blocks Susans way
Robot: "Please remain calm."
Robot: "Please refrain from going to your windows or doors."
Susan: "Deactivate!"
Susan: "Commence emergency shutdown!"
Robot: "We are attempting to avoid human losses during this transition."
and later before attempting to kill people

Robot: "You have been deemed hazardous. Will you comply?"

The Mandarin floats between being Axe Crazy at worst, and a Proud Warrior Race Guy/Arrogant Kung Fu Guy on his good days. He never quite reaches Affably Evil even on his polite days.

Goldfinger should probably be taken out of this list. The mint julep tart-moment was merely a show to fool the agents tailing Bond. He was in fact kept in a dark cell, and aside from some pleasantries during a golf game, he shows little gentle behaviour towards Bond.