Discussion Characters / ForgedDestiny

While the method through which Jaune obtained the amulet does seem rather contrived, and may in fact deserve an entry of its own, I don't think we can rule this as a contrived coincidence merely because Jaune is involved in it.

I don't think that Raven planned for their to be an incredibly high-level smith from the moment she acquired the ingot. She seems more reactionary in this case than anything else. Raven acquired a very rare ingot but doesn't know of any Blacksmith capable enough to forge with it so she sets it aside. She later finds out that Jaune exists and so acquires his services to forge her a weapon.

Raven knowing about Runesmithing may also fit, but I think it was hinted at that she had some alternative source through which she had acquired such information.

The fact that Raven didn't plan any of it (and thus didn't set anything in motion) is exactly what makes it all a contrived coincidence by definition. A Blacksmith capable of forging it just so happened to be involved with events and just so happened to have the Skill by which she just so happens to know about (because Coeur literally needed to make sources up on the spot). The material just so happened to be provided to her.

All coincidental (especially from her perspective). All contrived. It literally all fell into her lap.

Fair points, I'm just not sure if Jaune's existence deserves an inclusion on that list. To quote the trope: "Contrived Coincidence describes a highly improbable occurrence in a story which is required by the plot, but which has absolutely no outward justification". Salem just so happening to use a Starmetal meteor instead of a regular meteor or just giving the guy a lightning rod and then calling down a bolt is not internally justified. Jaune being such a high level, however, is justified due to all the events we as readers have seen him go through. Him being the world's best Blacksmith is very convenient for Raven, I admit, but it is also something that the narrative supports.

I think I see where you're coming from, so here's my rebuttal.

An informed flaw is basically an inconsistency between what narration is saying and what actually happens, and yes, I agree there is an inconsistency here. What we seem to disagree about is where that inconsistency is coming from.

You seem to be attributing it to bad writing, while I think it's more of a mix of several things that boil down to Unreliable Narration.

For a typical story narration is generally from a 3rd person omniscient perspective, but that's not the case here. Here all the narration is from Jaune himself. It's strictly from his viewpoint and his understanding in the moment (there isn't even a framing device of him telling a story to someone else at a later time), and therefore everything is based on his subjective experience and knowledge.

So what does Jaune know? He knows that heroes fight grimm and laborers do menial work, and whether you're one or the other is decided by Class. He "knows" that he isn't supposed to be fighting because that's the accepted fact of the society and culture he grew up in. He "knows" that he's going to be rubbish at it because he doesn't have the right class to give him the skills, he needs to do it well and that he'll never be better at than an actual knight or any other hero class will be. It's his society's subjective opinion on the matter - a deeply held opinion, sure, but still not objective fact.

That he is holding his own as he levels up and gains practical experience despite not having any combat skills isn't because of bad writing, it's because Jaune, the character himself and by extension the society he grew up in, is wrong about something.

Now that I've written my viewpoint out like this I guess I can see how Informed Flaw can be made to fit, it just wouldn't have been my first thought, and that's why I've been moving your examples to other tropes.

As for your second point: when has glory seeking ever been part of Jaune's character? If his goal at the start was something like "I want to be a hero so I can be famous" I'd give it to you. But his goal has pretty consistently been "I want to be a hero because being a Blacksmith (and therefore an NPC) sucks". Admittedly it's still a selfish desire, but not one based on wanting renown. Having people look up to him might be a subconcious factor, but it isn't something that's been brought up in the story even obliquely or by implication, so listing it as a supporting example for Informed Flaw seems unfounded.

While I do hold that the writer's lack of showcasing several elements is a problem (and something he occasionally admits in discussions), it doesn't entirely play a part in this instance.

For one thing, even with the story told from Jaune's POV it doesn't really affect how a fight's ultimate outcome is determined with Jaune fighting Heroes and winning. Nor does it account for when other characters voice the same opinion. It's more like all of society "knows" that a Labour Class can't fight a Hero, so none try.

But even were it a result of flawed writing, it'd still be an Informed Flaw as the definition is about a flaw that is stated but never comes about in the story. The particular reason as to why said flaw never shows up is not conditional.

For the second - Read the entry again. You'll find I was just making the original point stronger. The fact the whole glory seeking attribute has never been shown by Jaune is exactly why it's another Informed Flaw. If the author wants to make Jaune's character ambiguous than he needs to include some actual glory seeking behavior i.e. bragging and spreading his accomplishments.

But he never does, so pointing out the lack of glory seeking behavior to the entry is appropriate for making the point clearer.