Follow TV Tropes

Discussion History YMMV / BioShockInfinite

Go To

[002] Primis Current Version
Changed line(s) 5 from:
\'\'\'\
to:
\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"There are no documents during the game or dialog that states that this is what he does when he drags Heather away, this is just one of those baseless fan theories.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

There are several references to \\\"Resurrection\\\", \\\"Rebirth\\\", \\\"Agents\\\" and \\\"Attendants of God\\\". I know for a fact that there is at least one in-game document concerning The Halo of the Sun that thoroughly explains the symbolism.
Is it spelled out for the player? No. But baseless FanWank? Hardly.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides it\\\'s all too easy to avoid dying entirely and thus never even see the scene where Vatiel does this anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So? That doesn\\\'t mean it doesn\\\'t happen.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Valtiel appears in only 3 places in the game and only for very brief moments\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

He\\\'s seen in the mall, admittedly a minor appearance. He\\\'s seen in the Hospital, turning the valve, which ties into the symbolism. And he is all over the chapel, notably during the final boss fight.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"implied doesn\\\'t mean fact, even if said implication wasn\\\'t incredibly vague,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

You are aware that a significant portion of Silent Hill\\\'s mythos is implication right? Nothing is ever spelled out. The developers wanted you to figure things out for yourself, using the symbolism and in-game documents as clues. Or did you think all the textbooks and other things scattered about were there just for the heck of it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"the fact that he appears and turns a value for some reason which is never explained is the only proof of the people that claim that, if you can call that proof at all\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

The valve is more resurrection symbolism, it doesn\\\'t have anything to do with the transitions, and I\\\'ve never heard anyone describing it as such.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Also, I was only referring to [=SH3=] alone when I said that, not any of the other games or books or anything,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So was I.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and even if I wasn\\\'t even with what information actually does exist about him Valtiel would still have very little presence.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question, what DO you know about Valtiel? Because I\\\'ve given numerous reasons as to why he\\\'s an important part of the mythos, and all you\\\'ve come up with every time is \\\"nope\\\".

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Valtiel only shows up a very small amount of times for only very brief moments, and he doesn\\\'t interact with the player in any way. He\\\'s not even all that scary, he\\\'s just \\\"there\\\". It\\\'s easy to forget a creature that only appears briefly and doesn\\\'t do anything.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Silent Hill isn\\\'t Dead Space. It\\\'s psychological horror, not jump scares. In addition to the in-universe resurrection symbolism, Valtiel also represents a stalker, and [[AdultFear all the implications that come with that]].

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"There are countless other monsters in the series that look quite a bit like Valtiel\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

All the humanoid monsters look the same and first glance. If you actually stop and look at Valtiel though, you\\\'ll see he looks quite different from any of them. He\\\'s wearing ceremonial robes, gloves, a mask and has the Seal of Metatron branded on his shoulders. Quite unlike anyone else in the game.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"That backstory is largely presented in supplmentary materials of dubious canonicity,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

The Book of Lost Memories is an officially-approved guide book, with interviews of the writers and art directors. It\\\'s canonicity is not \\\"dubious\\\".

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and there\\\'s still very little of it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

What else needs to be said? We know what he is and we know how he ties into the mythos, symbolism and themes Silent Hill 3 explores. What else needs to be said?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Pyramid Head also doesn\\\'t have that much information about it but it\\\'s a wealth of information by comparison.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has exactly as much information on him as Valtiel does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"People have been claiming that Valtiel should be there over Pyramid Head, why? What makes him better?\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

You know, Harry Mason was good, but James Sunderland is just a much better protagonist, let\\\'s put him in instead of Harry. Because really, what makes Harry so special that he deserves to be IN HIS OWN ROLE?!

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides, Valtiel DID appear a few times in the movie.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Having a group named after you, and a couple of statues in your likeness does not constitute an appearance.

And gee, it\\\'s almost as if the filmmakers were aware that Valtiel was important enough to acknowledge. Why else would they do this?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"the rest is educated guesses by fans at best and outright made up by fans at worst and all of it taken as gospel,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'ve just typed this wall of text proving that completely wrong.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"like the assumption that he\\\'s dragging Heather off to the symbol in order to resurrect her instead of to some messy doom, or that he\\\'s this \\\"janitor\\\" or \\\"god\\\'s servant\\\" or...\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yep, all that Resurrection symbolism, and references to Agents of God, not the mention of the book that thoroughly explains the Halo of the Sun, and the fact that Valtiel is never seen attacking Heather, yep it\\\'s all meaningless. Of course, why didn\\\'t we see it before?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"in fact, it\\\'s much harder to find the things that actually true about the creature than the things that people have just assumed without any actual proof.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No more so than anything else in this series.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"NOW you\\\'re being hyperbolic,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

You\\\'re right, that was hyperbolic, sorry. However...

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Pyramid Head is a one of Silent Hill\\\'s most recognizable icons, thus having him in a Silent Hill movie makes sense,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

If this was a Silent Hill 2 movie, sure, throw him in. But it\\\'s not a adaptation of Silent Hill 2, is it? So it still makes no freaking sense!

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides, that\\\'s what expys are for.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s one thing I\\\'ll give 0rigins credit for, it knew better than that stick Pyramid Head into a completely unrelated story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that I care for the story both of the games and of the movies is the very reason why I object having some nonthreatening nobody monster thrown in this movie instead of using one of the Silent Hill francise\\\'s best, most fleshed out, and most recognizable monsters.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

For some one who supposedly cares for the story, you are awfully eager to ignore the fact that Pyramid Head had a very specific role in Silent Hill 2. He was the manifestation of James\\\' guilt for murdering Mary (and later Eddie, when a second Pyramid Head appears), and his subconscious desire to be punished. Tell me how that fits in Silent Hill 3? Please, I\\\'m honestly, very interested in that answer.

And for a role that was supposedly so unimportant, it\\\'s funny how they went to great lengths to explain that Pyramid Head\\\'s role in Revelations is identical to that of Valtiel\\\'s role in Silent Hill 3; you know, that role that we fans supposedly made up all on our own? Funny how that works. There\\\'s even a couple of scenes of Pyramid Head turning valves.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
\'\'\'\
to:
\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"There are no documents during the game or dialog that states that this is what he does when he drags Heather away, this is just one of those baseless fan theories.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

There are several references to \\\"Resurrection\\\", \\\"Rebirth\\\", \\\"Agents\\\" and \\\"Attendants of God\\\". I know for a fact that there is at least one in-game document concerning The Halo of the Sun that thoroughly explains the symbolism.
Is it spelled out for the player? No. But baseless FanWank? Hardly.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides it\\\'s all too easy to avoid dying entirely and thus never even see the scene where Vatiel does this anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So? That doesn\\\'t mean it doesn\\\'t happen.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Valtiel appears in only 3 places in the game and only for very brief moments\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

He\\\'s seen in the mall, admittedly a minor appearance. He\\\'s seen in the Hospital, turning the valve, which ties into the symbolism. And he is all over the chapel, notably during the final boss fight.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"implied doesn\\\'t mean fact, even if said implication wasn\\\'t incredibly vague,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

You are aware that a significant portion of Silent Hill\\\'s mythos is implication right? Nothing is ever spelled out. The developers wanted you to figure things out for yourself, using the symbolism and in-game documents as clues. Or did you think all the textbooks and other things scattered about were there just for the heck of it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"the fact that he appears and turns a value for some reason which is never explained is the only proof of the people that claim that, if you can call that proof at all\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

The valve is more resurrection symbolism, it doesn\\\'t have anything to do with the transitions, and I\\\'ve never heard anyone describing it as such.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Also, I was only referring to [=SH3=] alone when I said that, not any of the other games or books or anything,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So was I.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and even if I wasn\\\'t even with what information actually does exist about him Valtiel would still have very little presence.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question, what DO you know about Valtiel? Because I\\\'ve given numerous reasons as to why he\\\'s an important part of the mythos, and all you\\\'ve come up with every time is \\\"nope\\\".

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Valtiel only shows up a very small amount of times for only very brief moments, and he doesn\\\'t interact with the player in any way. He\\\'s not even all that scary, he\\\'s just \\\"there\\\". It\\\'s easy to forget a creature that only appears briefly and doesn\\\'t do anything.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Silent Hill isn\\\'t Dead Space. It\\\'s psychological horror, not jump scares. In addition to the in-universe resurrection symbolism, Valtiel also represents a stalker, and [[AdultFear all the implications that come with that]].

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"There are countless other monsters in the series that look quite a bit like Valtiel\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

All the humanoid monsters look the same and first glance. If you actually stop and look at Valtiel though, you\\\'ll see he looks quite different from any of them. He\\\'s wearing ceremonial robes, gloves, a mask and has the Seal of Metatron branded on his shoulders. Quite unlike anyone else in the game.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"That backstory is largely presented in supplmentary materials of dubious canonicity,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

The Book of Lost Memories is an officially-approved guide book, with interviews of the writers and art directors. It\\\'s canonicity is not \\\"dubious\\\".

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and there\\\'s still very little of it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

What else needs to be said? We know what he is and we know how he ties into the mythos, symbolism and themes Silent Hill 3 explores. What else needs to be said?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Pyramid Head also doesn\\\'t have that much information about it but it\\\'s a wealth of information by comparison.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has exactly as much information on him as Valtiel does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"People have been claiming that Valtiel should be there over Pyramid Head, why? What makes him better?\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

Did you really just say that? [[FacePalm Really?]]

Did Pyramid Head show up in Silent Hill (the game)? No? Then he doesn\\\'t need to be in Silent Hill (the movie)

Did Pyramid Head show up in Silent Hill 3? No? Then he doesn\\\'t need to be Silent Hill: Revelations.

Did Valtiel show up in Silent Hill 3? Yes? Then he should be in Silent Hill: Revelations.

Aside from EVERYTHING ELSE, there\\\'s your reason. That\\\'s what makes Valtiel batter. It\\\'s like saying \\\"you know, Harry Mason was good, but James Sunderland is just a much better protagonist, let\\\'s put him in instead of Harry.\\\" Because really, what makes Harry so special that he deserves to be IN HIS OWN ROLE?!

Now you tell me, what in God\\\'s name makes Pyramid Head so freaking special that he should be replace Valtiel. I\\\'m still waiting for a good response.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides, Valtiel DID appear a few times in the movie.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Having a group named after you, and a couple of statues in your likeness does not constitute an appearance.

And gee, it\\\'s almost as if the filmmakers were aware that Valtiel was important enough to acknowledge. Why else would they do this?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"the rest is educated guesses by fans at best and outright made up by fans at worst and all of it taken as gospel,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'ve just typed this wall of text proving that completely wrong.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"like the assumption that he\\\'s dragging Heather off to the symbol in order to resurrect her instead of to some messy doom, or that he\\\'s this \\\"janitor\\\" or \\\"god\\\'s servant\\\" or...\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yep, all that Resurrection symbolism, and references to Agents of God, not the mention of the book that thoroughly explains the Halo of the Sun, and the fact that Valtiel is never seen attacking Heather, yep it\\\'s all meaningless. Of course, why didn\\\'t we see it before?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"in fact, it\\\'s much harder to find the things that actually true about the creature than the things that people have just assumed without any actual proof.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No more so than anything else in this series.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"NOW you\\\'re being hyperbolic,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

You\\\'re right, that was hyperbolic, sorry. However...

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Pyramid Head is a one of Silent Hill\\\'s most recognizable icons, thus having him in a Silent Hill movie makes sense,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

If this was a Silent Hill 2 movie, sure, throw him in. But it\\\'s not a adaptation of Silent Hill 2, is it? So it still makes no freaking sense!

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Besides, that\\\'s what expys are for.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s one thing I\\\'ll give 0rigins credit for, it knew better than that stick Pyramid Head into a completely unrelated story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that I care for the story both of the games and of the movies is the very reason why I object having some nonthreatening nobody monster thrown in this movie instead of using one of the Silent Hill francise\\\'s best, most fleshed out, and most recognizable monsters.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

For some one who supposedly cares for the story, you are awfully eager to ignore the fact that Pyramid Head had a very specific role in Silent Hill 2. He was the manifestation of James\\\' guilt for murdering Mary (and later Eddie, when a second Pyramid Head appears), and his subconscious desire to be punished. Tell me how that fits in Silent Hill 3? Please, I\\\'m honestly, very interested in that answer.

And for a role that was supposedly so unimportant, it\\\'s funny how they went to great lengths to explain that Pyramid Head\\\'s role in Revelations is identical to that of Valtiel\\\'s role in Silent Hill 3; you know, that role that we fans supposedly made up all on our own? Funny how that works. There\\\'s even a couple of scenes of Pyramid Head turning valves.
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report