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* AIIsACrapshoot: [[spoiler: Deus]
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* AIIsACrapshoot: [[spoiler: Deus]]
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My reason for removing the trope from the page is that the roles keep getting changed around as everyone has their own ideas for how they should be assigned. As per the main trope page:
\\\"These are examples of teams that fit at least four of the character tropes. Remember that they form a team dynamic; it\\\'s always tempting to match two of the characters in a show, then try to convince yourself and others that the other characters can be squeezed/wedged/stuffed into the description of the other character types, but that\\\'s not the point of the Five-Man Band trope. The individual character types exist outside of the band. The Five-Man Band only occurs when the team as a whole fits, not just a few characters.\\\"
The only roles I have seen that are not constantly subject to dispute are Squall as TheHero and Quistis as TheSmartGuy.
For TheLancer, I\\\'ve seen just about everyone suggested, including Zell, Selphie, and Rinoa. TheLancer\\\'s article defines the role as being a {{Foil}} to TheHero - in FFVIII, Squall\\\'s primary foil is Rinoa, not Zell. You can make a case for it in that Zell\\\'s personality contrasts Squall\\\'s, but that\\\'s the case for most of the party; although he \\\'\\\'wants\\\'\\\' to be trusted with leadership whenever the subject comes up, he only really gets the chance to step up once.
TheBigGuy: Irvine fits only in the sense that he\\\'s the tallest member of the team, which isn\\\'t really relevant to the trope. He was brought in for a specific \\\'\\\'skill\\\'\\\' that was required by the strategy the assassination was built on, not because he\\\'s a \\\"powerhouse\\\" as described by the trope; Zell, as a BoisterousBruiser who explicitly relies on brawn foremost and is frequently seen punching things even outside of combat, fits the trope best, although Selphie also works as a magical CuteBruiser whose ideas for problem-solving usually involve blowing things up.
TheSmartGuy: Quistis doesn\\\'t even fit the role all that well, and she\\\'s one of the ones that isn\\\'t generally disputed. Although she\\\'s reputed to be very intelligent, we don\\\'t actually \\\'\\\'see\\\'\\\' her acting as the brains of the team in any situation. Her intelligence is mostly an InformedAbility rather than an asset to the team; \\\'\\\'Zell,\\\'\\\' who is presented as DumbMuscle, does a better job of it than Quistis does by virtue of at least being surprisingly well-informed.
TheChick: The article defines TheChick as being the character who keeps the team pulled together emotionally, encouraging them to work together and inspiring them. Selphie does not do this. She\\\'s cheerful, yes, but there aren\\\'t really many instances of her being the one to step up and actually lift people\\\'s spirits, except at Trabia Garden where she exerts herself to cheer up people \\\'\\\'outside the team\\\'\\\'; we see Irvine doing this sort of thing within the team much more often (asking Squall to cheer Selphie up, and then organizing the Garden Festival, and again at the basketball court in disc 2). Selphie more commonly pipes up after someone else has already said something encouraging. I have also seen Rinoa suggested for this role as well, but she doesn\\\'t really do this sort of thing for the team as a whole, only for Squall.
I personally am comfortable with the way the roles were laid out before your edits, but since there\\\'s been this kind of debate before and it\\\'s almost guaranteed to come up again the next time someone else comes along and feels they have a better idea, that says to me that the trope as a whole simply doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be on the page to invite more edit wars.
\\\"These are examples of teams that fit at least four of the character tropes. Remember that they form a team dynamic; it\\\'s always tempting to match two of the characters in a show, then try to convince yourself and others that the other characters can be squeezed/wedged/stuffed into the description of the other character types, but that\\\'s not the point of the Five-Man Band trope. The individual character types exist outside of the band. The Five-Man Band only occurs when the team as a whole fits, not just a few characters.\\\"
The only roles I have seen that are not constantly subject to dispute are Squall as TheHero and Quistis as TheSmartGuy.
For TheLancer, I\\\'ve seen just about everyone suggested, including Zell, Selphie, and Rinoa. TheLancer\\\'s article defines the role as being a {{Foil}} to TheHero - in FFVIII, Squall\\\'s primary foil is Rinoa, not Zell. You can make a case for it in that Zell\\\'s personality contrasts Squall\\\'s, but that\\\'s the case for most of the party; although he \\\'\\\'wants\\\'\\\' to be trusted with leadership whenever the subject comes up, he only really gets the chance to step up once.
TheBigGuy: Irvine fits only in the sense that he\\\'s the tallest member of the team, which isn\\\'t really relevant to the trope. He was brought in for a specific \\\'\\\'skill\\\'\\\' that was required by the strategy the assassination was built on, not because he\\\'s a \\\"powerhouse\\\" as described by the trope; Zell, as a BoisterousBruiser who explicitly relies on brawn foremost and is frequently seen punching things even outside of combat, fits the trope best, although Selphie also works as a magical CuteBruiser whose ideas for problem-solving usually involve blowing things up.
TheSmartGuy: Quistis doesn\\\'t even fit the role all that well, and she\\\'s one of the ones that isn\\\'t generally disputed. Although she\\\'s reputed to be very intelligent, we don\\\'t actually \\\'\\\'see\\\'\\\' her acting as the brains of the team in any situation. Her intelligence is mostly an InformedAbility rather than an asset to the team; \\\'\\\'Zell,\\\'\\\' who is presented as DumbMuscle, does a better job of it than Quistis does by virtue of at least being surprisingly well-informed.
TheChick: The article defines TheChick as being the character who keeps the team pulled together emotionally, encouraging them to work together and inspiring them. Selphie does not do this. She\\\'s cheerful, yes, but there aren\\\'t really many instances of her being the one to step up and actually lift people\\\'s spirits, except at Trabia Garden where she exerts herself to cheer up people \\\'\\\'outside the team\\\'\\\'; we see Irvine doing this sort of thing within the team much more often (asking Squall to cheer Selphie up, and then organizing the Garden Festival, and again at the basketball court in disc 2). Selphie more commonly pipes up after someone else has already said something encouraging. I have also seen Rinoa suggested for this role as well, but she doesn\\\'t really do this sort of thing for the team as a whole, only for Squall.
I personally am comfortable with the way the roles were laid out before your edits, but since there\\\'s been this kind of debate before and it\\\'s almost guaranteed to come up again the next time someone else comes along and feels they have a better idea, that says to me that the trope as a whole simply doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be on the page to invite more edit wars.
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My reason for removing the trope from the page is that the roles keep getting changed around as everyone has their own ideas for how they should be assigned. As per the main trope page:
\\\"These are examples of teams that fit at least four of the character tropes. Remember that they form a team dynamic; it\\\'s always tempting to match two of the characters in a show, then try to convince yourself and others that the other characters can be squeezed/wedged/stuffed into the description of the other character types, but that\\\'s not the point of the Five-Man Band trope. The individual character types exist outside of the band. The Five-Man Band only occurs when the team as a whole fits, not just a few characters.\\\"
The only roles I have seen that are not constantly subject to dispute are Squall as TheHero and Quistis as TheSmartGuy.
For TheLancer, I\\\'ve seen just about everyone suggested, including Zell, Selphie, and Rinoa. TheLancer\\\'s article defines the role as being a {{Foil}} to TheHero - in FFVIII, Squall\\\'s primary foil is Rinoa, not Zell. You can make a case for it in that Zell\\\'s personality contrasts Squall\\\'s, but that\\\'s the case for most of the party; although he \\\'\\\'wants\\\'\\\' to be trusted with leadership whenever the subject comes up, he only really gets the chance to step up once.
TheBigGuy: Irvine fits only in the sense that he\\\'s the tallest member of the team, which isn\\\'t really relevant to the trope. He was brought in for a specific \\\'\\\'skill\\\'\\\' that was required by the strategy the assassination was built on, not because he\\\'s a \\\"powerhouse\\\" as described by the trope; Zell, as a BoisterousBruiser who explicitly relies on brawn foremost and is frequently seen punching things even outside of combat, fits the trope best, although Selphie also works as a magical CuteBruiser whose ideas for problem-solving usually involve blowing things up.
TheSmartGuy: Quistis doesn\\\'t even fit the role all that well, and she\\\'s one of the ones that isn\\\'t generally disputed. Although she\\\'s reputed to be very intelligent, we don\\\'t actually \\\'\\\'see\\\'\\\' her acting as the brains of the team in any situation. Her intelligence is mostly an InformedAbility rather than an asset to the team; \\\'\\\'Zell,\\\'\\\' who is presented as DumbMuscle, does a better job of it than Quistis does by virtue of at least being surprisingly well-informed.
TheChick: The article defines TheChick as being the character who keeps the team pulled together emotionally, encouraging them to work together and inspiring them. Selphie does not do this. She\\\'s cheerful, yes, but there aren\\\'t really many instances of her being the one to step up and actually lift people\\\'s spirits; we see Irvine doing this sort of thing much more often (asking Squall to cheer Selphie up, and then organizing the Garden Festival, and again at the basketball court in disc 2). Selphie more commonly pipes up after someone else has already said something encouraging. I have also seen Rinoa suggested for this role as well, but she doesn\\\'t really do this sort of thing for the team as a whole, only for Squall.
I personally am comfortable with the way the roles were laid out before your edits, but since there\\\'s been this kind of debate before and it\\\'s almost guaranteed to come up again the next time someone else comes along and feels they have a better idea, that says to me that the trope as a whole simply doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be on the page to invite more edit wars.
\\\"These are examples of teams that fit at least four of the character tropes. Remember that they form a team dynamic; it\\\'s always tempting to match two of the characters in a show, then try to convince yourself and others that the other characters can be squeezed/wedged/stuffed into the description of the other character types, but that\\\'s not the point of the Five-Man Band trope. The individual character types exist outside of the band. The Five-Man Band only occurs when the team as a whole fits, not just a few characters.\\\"
The only roles I have seen that are not constantly subject to dispute are Squall as TheHero and Quistis as TheSmartGuy.
For TheLancer, I\\\'ve seen just about everyone suggested, including Zell, Selphie, and Rinoa. TheLancer\\\'s article defines the role as being a {{Foil}} to TheHero - in FFVIII, Squall\\\'s primary foil is Rinoa, not Zell. You can make a case for it in that Zell\\\'s personality contrasts Squall\\\'s, but that\\\'s the case for most of the party; although he \\\'\\\'wants\\\'\\\' to be trusted with leadership whenever the subject comes up, he only really gets the chance to step up once.
TheBigGuy: Irvine fits only in the sense that he\\\'s the tallest member of the team, which isn\\\'t really relevant to the trope. He was brought in for a specific \\\'\\\'skill\\\'\\\' that was required by the strategy the assassination was built on, not because he\\\'s a \\\"powerhouse\\\" as described by the trope; Zell, as a BoisterousBruiser who explicitly relies on brawn foremost and is frequently seen punching things even outside of combat, fits the trope best, although Selphie also works as a magical CuteBruiser whose ideas for problem-solving usually involve blowing things up.
TheSmartGuy: Quistis doesn\\\'t even fit the role all that well, and she\\\'s one of the ones that isn\\\'t generally disputed. Although she\\\'s reputed to be very intelligent, we don\\\'t actually \\\'\\\'see\\\'\\\' her acting as the brains of the team in any situation. Her intelligence is mostly an InformedAbility rather than an asset to the team; \\\'\\\'Zell,\\\'\\\' who is presented as DumbMuscle, does a better job of it than Quistis does by virtue of at least being surprisingly well-informed.
TheChick: The article defines TheChick as being the character who keeps the team pulled together emotionally, encouraging them to work together and inspiring them. Selphie does not do this. She\\\'s cheerful, yes, but there aren\\\'t really many instances of her being the one to step up and actually lift people\\\'s spirits; we see Irvine doing this sort of thing much more often (asking Squall to cheer Selphie up, and then organizing the Garden Festival, and again at the basketball court in disc 2). Selphie more commonly pipes up after someone else has already said something encouraging. I have also seen Rinoa suggested for this role as well, but she doesn\\\'t really do this sort of thing for the team as a whole, only for Squall.
I personally am comfortable with the way the roles were laid out before your edits, but since there\\\'s been this kind of debate before and it\\\'s almost guaranteed to come up again the next time someone else comes along and feels they have a better idea, that says to me that the trope as a whole simply doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be on the page to invite more edit wars.
