Discussion History Main / SantaClaus

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated. In any case, the current version focuses on the trivial stuff. The heroes being uncomfortable due to J Jonah Jameson disliking even the nice ones on principle (if he strictly focused on the Deadpool, Wolverine and ThePunisher variety he would actually have a good point, but also get killed), is comparatively irrelevant compared to the ongoing larger CosmicHorrorStory NietzscheWannabe-inducing narrative context:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:TheInfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy long-time focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and sometimes combined with disturbing upside-down or ArsonMurderAndJaywalking contexts, such as stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the in-focus Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffelheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:The AvengersForever maxi-series]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:IncredibleHercules: ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego, Grandmaster; or even here for some reason actively destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their market-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it... with a few neutral ones such as Infinity or [[OrderVersusChaos Chaos&Order]], so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a cooler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture, corrupt, and eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them... and that\\\'s presumably just the tip of the iceberg]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but among others also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and the Marquis of Death]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman or all the regularly civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]].[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]] This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, thousands of to conventional forces virtually unstoppable human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry even towards the ones that don\\\'t deserve it, or regular genocides performed by [[JokerImmunity the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[Comicbook/TheAvengers Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all the timelines that he has turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of aliens without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again hundreds of times in a row]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing incoherent torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, and hopelessness, to be somehow handled by hardening and pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless.[[hottip:*:To the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.]]
* Additionally, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[TheSocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], [[WallBanger as this has turned into a common rationale of]] \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked an exact copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] [[TheSocialDarwinist it recurrently simply breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism allusion to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then [[AuthorTract for some unfathomable reason]] he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[ThePowerOfHate Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most \\\"constructive\\\"]]. The entire place has long been fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a very [[TheSociopath extreme level sociopath]] reminiscent [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] TheSocialDarwinist WorldOfChaos WarIsGlorious WhatIsEvil, or ArsonMurderAndJayWalking mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan enthusiastic mass-murder orgies, even against completely outmatched opponents, or the hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm and [[CosmicHorrorStory cosmic horror stories]]. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards, for example during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious shapeshifting alien fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\", [[BeyondTheImpossible storyvise apparently handled in a dead-serious manner]].]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and as such it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even makes (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. On the other hand, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other North American comics. Among other examples: [[FriendToAllLivingThings J.M. DeMatteis]], [[{{Supreme}} Alan]] [[TomStrong Moore]], [[Series/GoldDigger Fred Perry]], [[{{Bone}} Jeff Smith]], DonRosa, [[NinjaHighSchool Ben Dunn]], [[JusticeLeagueUnlimited Dwayne]] [[Ben10AlienForce McDuffie]], ChristosGage, and AlanDavis]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively speaking) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the overwhelming metaphysical structure of the place remains (most notably the focus on [[DisproportionateRetribution eternal torture]] as a moral and acceptable catch-all solution), half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the \\\'\\\'known\\\'\\\' {{EldritchAbomination}}s were destroyed,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out,[[hottip:*: In Comicbook/TheAvengers, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]] several stories have turned less depressing (the {{Gorn}} [[TheSociopath sociopath]] orgies are still common practice for several of the protagonists, but seem to be more contained to specific books than widespread); and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is \\\'\\\'mostly\\\'\\\' in a far less ridiculously over-the-top extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* In any case, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated. In any case, the current version focuses on the trivial stuff. The heroes being uncomfortable due to J Jonah Jameson disliking even the nice ones on principle (if he strictly focused on the Deadpool, Wolverine and ThePunisher variety he would actually have a good point, but also get killed), is comparatively irrelevant compared to the ongoing larger CosmicHorrorStory NietzscheWannabe-inducing narrative context:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:TheInfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy long-time focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and sometimes combined with disturbing upside-down or ArsonMurderAndJaywalking contexts, such as stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the in-focus Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffelheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:The AvengersForever maxi-series]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:IncredibleHercules: ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego, Grandmaster; or even here for some reason actively destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their market-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it... with a few neutral ones such as Infinity or [[OrderVersusChaos Chaos&Order]], so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a cooler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture, corrupt, and eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them... and that\\\'s presumably just the tip of the iceberg]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but among others also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and the Marquis of Death]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman or all the regularly civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]].[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]] This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, thousands of to conventional forces virtually unstoppable human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry even towards the ones that don\\\'t deserve it, or regular genocides performed by [[JokerImmunity the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[Comicbook/TheAvengers Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all the timelines that he has turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of aliens without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again hundreds of times in a row]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing incoherent torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, and hopelessness, to be somehow handled by hardening and pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* Additionally, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[TheSocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], [[WallBanger as this has turned into a common rationale of]] \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked an exact copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] [[TheSocialDarwinist it recurrently simply breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism allusion to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then [[AuthorTract for some unfathomable reason]] he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[ThePowerOfHate Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most \\\"constructive\\\"]]. The entire place has long been fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a very [[TheSociopath extreme level sociopath]] reminiscent [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] TheSocialDarwinist WorldOfChaos WarIsGlorious WhatIsEvil, or ArsonMurderAndJayWalking mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan enthusiastic mass-murder orgies, even against completely outmatched opponents, or the hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm and [[CosmicHorrorStory cosmic horror stories]]. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards, for example during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious shapeshifting alien fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\", [[BeyondTheImpossible storyvise apparently handled in a dead-serious manner]].]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and as such it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even makes (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. On the other hand, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other North American comics. Among other examples: [[FriendToAllLivingThings J.M. DeMatteis]], [[{{Supreme}} Alan]] [[TomStrong Moore]], [[Series/GoldDigger Fred Perry]], [[{{Bone}} Jeff Smith]], DonRosa, [[NinjaHighSchool Ben Dunn]], [[JusticeLeagueUnlimited Dwayne]] [[Ben10AlienForce McDuffie]], ChristosGage, and AlanDavis]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively speaking) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the overwhelming metaphysical structure of the place remains (most notably the focus on [[DisproportionateRetribution eternal torture]] as a moral and acceptable catch-all solution), half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the \\\'\\\'known\\\'\\\' {{EldritchAbomination}}s were destroyed,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out,[[hottip:*: In Comicbook/TheAvengers, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]] several stories have turned less depressing (the {{Gorn}} [[TheSociopath sociopath]] orgies are still common practice for several of the protagonists, but seem to be more contained to specific books than widespread); and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is \\\'\\\'mostly\\\'\\\' in a far less ridiculously over-the-top extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* In any case, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated. In any case, the current version focuses on the trivial stuff. The heroes being uncomfortable due to J Jonah Jameson disliking even the nice ones on principle (if he strictly focused on the Deadpool, Wolverine and ThePunisher variety he would actually have a good point, but also get killed), is comparatively irrelevant compared to the ongoing larger CosmicHorrorStory NietzscheWannabe-inducing narrative context:


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=BizarroHulk




* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:TheInfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy long-time focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and sometimes combined with disturbing upside-down or ArsonMurderAndJaywalking contexts, such as stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the in-focus Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffelheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:The AvengersForever maxi-series]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:IncredibleHercules: ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego, Grandmaster; or even here for some reason actively destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their market-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it... with a few neutral ones such as Infinity or [[OrderVersusChaos Chaos&Order]], so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a cooler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture, corrupt, and eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them... and that\\\'s presumably just the tip of the iceberg]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but among others also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and the Marquis of Death]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman or all the regularly civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]].[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]] This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, thousands of to conventional forces virtually unstoppable human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry even towards the ones that don\\\'t deserve it, or regular genocides performed by [[JokerImmunity the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[Comicbook/TheAvengers Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all the timelines that he has turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of aliens without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again hundreds of times in a row]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing incoherent torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, and hopelessness, to be somehow handled by hardening and pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* Additionally, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[TheSocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], [[WallBanger as this has turned into a common rationale of]] \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked an exact copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] [[TheSocialDarwinist it recurrently simply breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism allusion to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then [[AuthorTract for some unfathomable reason]] he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[ThePowerOfHate Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most \\\"constructive\\\"]]. The entire place has long been fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a very [[TheSociopath extreme level sociopath]] reminiscent [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] TheSocialDarwinist WorldOfChaos WarIsGlorious WhatIsEvil, or ArsonMurderAndJayWalking mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan enthusiastic mass-murder orgies, even against completely outmatched opponents, or the hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm and [[CosmicHorrorStory cosmic horror stories]]. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards, for example during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious shapeshifting alien fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\", [[BeyondTheImpossible storyvise apparently handled in a dead-serious manner]].]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and as such it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even makes (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. On the other hand, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other North American comics. Among other examples: [[FriendToAllLivingThings J.M. DeMatteis]], [[{{Supreme}} Alan]] [[TomStrong Moore]], [[Series/GoldDigger Fred Perry]], [[{{Bone}} Jeff Smith]], DonRosa, [[NinjaHighSchool Ben Dunn]], [[JusticeLeagueUnlimited Dwayne]] [[Ben10AlienForce McDuffie]], ChristosGage, and AlanDavis]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively speaking) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the overwhelming metaphysical structure of the place remains (most notably the focus on [[DisproportionateRetribution eternal torture]] as a moral and acceptable catch-all solution), half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the \\\'\\\'known\\\'\\\' {{EldritchAbomination}}s were destroyed,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out,[[hottip:*: In Comicbook/TheAvengers, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]] several stories have turned less depressing (the {{Gorn}} [[TheSociopath sociopath]] orgies are still common practice for several of the protagonists, but seem to be more contained to specific books than widespread); and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is \\\'\\\'mostly\\\'\\\' in a far less ridiculously over-the-top extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* In any case, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated. In any case, the current version focuses on the trivial stuff. The heroes being uncomfortable due to J Jonah Jameson disliking even the nice ones on principle (if he strictly focused on the Deadpool, Wolverine and ThePunisher variety he would actually have a good point, but also get killed), is comparatively irrelevant compared to the ongoing larger CosmicHorrorStory NietzscheWannabe-inducing narrative context:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan mass-murder orgies, or hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards for example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* In any case, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan mass-murder orgies, or hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards for example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* In any case, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:Far too many to list in terms of the VigilanteMan mass-murder orgies, or hellfire&brimstone enthusiasm. But regarding blatant, possibly even intentional, double-standards for example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* However, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:For example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates covertly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* However, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:For example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryder shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates overtly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* However, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.

Okay, going by the above agreement, here is my rough current outline for the MarvelUniverse entry, with assorted references, clarifications, and explanations added as expansion columns, and an attempt to mostly focus on the writers who have made an effort to be kind or constructive, rather than the opposite, but I am virtually unable to filter, so I have a very hard time to manage AccentuateThePositive or be anything less than completely honest, and help to rework and compress it to what is actually relevant would be very appreciated:


* In the regular MarvelUniverse [[RuleOfSymbolism God]] [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything committed]] [[NietzscheWannabe suicide]] to create reality \\\"in all its varied forms\\\".[[hottip:*:The InfinityGauntlet stories]] Whoever took up the vacant position[[hottip:*:Likely Sise-Neg/Genesis, of DoctorStrange]] enforces [[ParanoiaFuel a system wherein most of all desperate sentients struggling to survive, are tortured forever after death]],[[hottip:*:Most recently stated outright in IncredibleHercules. However, there has been an extremely heavy focus on soul-eating demons, hellfire&brimstone torture-fetischism, and eternal damnation in Marvel lore against people assorted writers have some trivial or warranted problem with for a very long time, and recurrently combined with disturbing contexts of stating that a mass-murdering PsychoForHire embodiment of pointless barbaric slaughter and warfare such as Ares, \\\"died in the company of heroes\\\" so he at least initially went to paradise. [[DoesThisRemindYouOfAnything This]] [[UnfortunateImplications sounded an awful lot like a suicide-bomber motivation speech]]. The same philosophy obviously goes for the Norse pantheon, which \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' allowed berserk Viking mass-murderers into \\\"paradise\\\" (if killing and drinking all day can somehow be called that), whereas everybody else went to Niffleheim...]], which, [[CaptainObvious to say the least]], would be unconstructive absolute evil of such chilling extent as to make [[JosefStalin Stalin]] or {{Hitler}} blush in comparison, and entitled DisproportionateRetribution for pretty much anyone except those who enforce the system.
* In addition, the entity itself is fine with, for example, allowing the [[WellIntentionedExtremist Time Keepers]][[hottip:*:AvengersForever]] or [[WorldOfChaos Mikaboshi]][[hottip:*:ChaosWar]] to wipe out most of the multiverse, or personally manipulate [[OmnicidalManiac Thanos]] to destroy all of it (and recreate a copy) due to a \\\"design flaw\\\".[[hottip:*:MarvelUniverseTheEnd]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel Pretty much all other higher entities are either completely amoral casually genocidal bastards feeling justified to be so out of absolute entitlement, and are completely uncaring and unreliable]],[[hottip:*:Perhaps most famously showcased OmniscientMoralityLicense back in JohnByrne\\\'s \\\"[[FantasticFour Trial Of Galactus]]\\\", but most [[CosmicEntity cosmic entities]] are either downright malevolent or at best neutral, such as, for example, Beyonder, In-Betweener, the Celestials, Galactus, the Stranger, Ego; or even here active destructive conceptual forces seeking to increase their time-share, such as Entropy, Death, Oblivion, etc... the benevolent ones are pretty much Eon, the Watcher, the Vishanti, and that\\\'s it, so the balance is completely skewed out of order]], [[GodIsEvil whereas its main servant, and in theory supposed \\\"protector\\\" of creation, the Tribunal, almost never does its job against real, comparatively non-\\\"trivial\\\", threats, and is established to slaughter universal populations at the drop of a hat if it simply finds a kewler new toy.]][[hottip:*:DanSlott\\\'s SheHulk]]
* And that\\\'s to say nothing of the [[AlwaysChaoticEvil swarming horde of malevolent demonic beings]] who [[ForTheEvulz want to ravage all of creation, turn it into an eternal genocide-camp, eat the souls of humanity, or just torture them forever for kicks]],[[hottip:*:Among \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' other examples, includes Chthon, Seth, Gibborim, and the other \\\"Elder Gods\\\", but half of them were just eradicated by [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity Legion]]; Shuma-Gorath, and the other \\\"Multi-Angled Ones\\\"; most mystical entities associated with DoctorStrange, most famously Dormammu and the Octessence; a high percentage of the borrowed-from {{mythology}} JerkAssGods; and the even greater amount of purely demonic forces, who apparently want to torture or eat the souls of pretty much everybody, such as Mephisto, Satannish, Thog, Marduk Kurios, Daimon Hellstrom, Blackheart, and plenty of others, with DoctorStrange being the only hero remotely powerful enough to stand against them]] or that [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop anyone who is likely to assume virtual omnipotence every few years tends to be a sadistic supremacist of either the amoral, social-Darwinian, or nihilistic variety]],[[hottip:*:Most commonly Thanos, but also including Korvac, Sise-Neg/Genesis, Magus, Nebula, Red Skull, Doctor Doom, and Dormammu]] [[WhatMeasureIsANonHuman all the civilisations-destroying star-spanning empires]],[[hottip:*:Such as the galactic genocide armadas of the Negative Zone, led by Annihilus or Blastaar; the Kree, the Skrulls, the Shiar, the Troyans, the Rigellians, etc, who all routinely slaughter billions of aliens]]. This in addition to the constantly levelled cities, human-sized WeaponsOfMassDestruction or [[SerialKiller serial-killers]] running rampant and leading to prominent bigotry, or regular genocides performed by [[StatusQuoIsGod the assorted war-mongering conquerors that never get a true comeuppance]], [[KarmaHoudini and will just run free to regularly cause human death-tolls that make 9/11 look like a liquor store robbery over and over and over]][[hottip:*:Far too many examples to list, but almost every warlord-style villain out there. Perhaps most famously RedSkull, DoctorDoom, and particularly Kang (who in-continuity actually created \\\'\\\'World War III\\\'\\\' with millions of victims during \\\"[[{{Avengers}} Kang Dynasty]]\\\" and has murdered trillions in total if all timelines he\\\'s turned into galactic slaughter-zones are taken into account... and the man was born in an utopia mind you, he simply got \\\'\\\'bored\\\'\\\'; or a greater amount of \\\"cosmic setting\\\" adversaries, who can get away with slaughtering billions of alieans without upsetting the Earth setting much]] [[FailureIsTheOnlyOption for the protagonists to vainly repeat the same dance again]], [[StatusQuoIsGod and we\\\'re not talking about new foes replacing the old ones, which would make far more sense]]. The completely outmatched protectors are at best able to gain PyrrhicVictory by keeping the casualty numbers down and stalling the overwhelming tides of darkness from igniting complete Armageddon yet another day, and will get persecuted for the effort. On top of that, as a result of the horrible odds against them, with a scale of threat that is far more loopsided, inbalanced and disproportionate compared even to the real world, plenty of the heroes would qualify as [[NinetiesAntiHero self-righteous, casually murderous]], [[OneLiner stylish]], [[HannibalLecture callous speech making]], ColdBloodedTorture \\\"[[VigilanteMan law unto their own]]\\\" [[DesignatedHero crusading villains]] [[SlidingScaleOfIdealismVersusCynicism in any less]] BlackAndGrayMorality setting, which means that the entire unrelatable, inapplicable, intensely fractured environment gives many young or othervise impressionable readers an intense DysfunctionJunction self-destructive focus that all reality consists of is an intense series of confusing torture, slaughter, cruelty, genocide, to be somehow handled by pushing oneself as a NietzscheWannabe robot towards complete mental breakdown without learning to appreciate life. The few things that actually are positive, i.e. the advanced technology, don\\\'t really seem to improve anything, since ReedRichardsIsUseless to the point that [[JerkWithAHeartOfGold Warren]] [[WarrenEllis Ellis]]\\\' {{Planetary}} series made this HandWave elitism into its entire premise.
* In addition, it has been disturbingly common with \\\"[[SocialDarwinist moral messages]]\\\" centered around [[ThePowerOfHate destructive scapegoating]] [[AccentuateTheNegative towards very simplified, skewed, ridiculed]], [[DidNotDoTheResearch and inaccurately portrayed versions]] [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets sadistic portrayals of people with mental illnesses, medical disorders, autism, schizophrenia, extensive trauma, torture, isolation, and so on]] [[DidNotDoTheResearch as conscience-deprived wanton casual mass-murderers]], as this has turned into a common rationale of \\\"[[FacePalm what defines the villains as evil]]\\\", [[BrokenAesop but considering that people who very much are in control of their calculated sadistic actions, are completely sane, non-disabled, or traumatised, don\\\'t need help, and as such tend to be the actual problem in the real world terms, are recurrently given a far more forgiving treatment]], [[BrokenAesop in combination with giving screaming despairing and insane torture-victim even more torture]] with a [[SadistShow catchy]] OneLiner sendoff[[hottip:*:For examples \\\"The Unspoken\\\" arc of MightyAvengers, or the part of IncredibleHercules when the protagonist kicked a copy of himself [[CaptainObvious who had turned insane from 3000 years of intense torture]], into a torture pit, and as such meaning that he had taken exactly the same type of damage under the circumstances]] it recurrently breaks down into callous and conceited justifications of bigotry, sadistic bullying]], or marketing: \\\"[[MoralMyopia The more pain you cause, the more justified you get to cause even more, and your victims will probably eventually get really pissed anyway, which justifies it. Oh, and never ever bother to actually find ways to repair the damage even in cases where you blatantly have the means]]!\\\"-style [[SocialDarwinist ideology]].[[hottip:*:For example, in \\\"The Unspoken\\\" MightyAvengers arc, the antagonist was a blatant RuleOfSymbolism to a mental patient with caretakers, or possibly a schizophrenic derelict, who didn\\\'t start out bad at all, in fact he was exiled for being less genocidal than his brethren; but then for some unfathomable reason he decided that turning humanity into cavemen was a constructive and ethical idea after 30 years isolated in the Himalayas. The DesignatedHero Henry Pym had a device that could easily de-age the now-but-not-originally-madman into infancy to bring him up as a healthy resource, [[WhatTheHellHero but instead decided to age him to the brink of death, giving him decades of mental torture in an instant]], with a \\\"[[AuthorTract Pathetic]], [[AcceptableHardLuckTargets etcetera]]!\\\"-style OneLiner...]] [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy And traditionally speaking that was literally Marvel at its most optimistic]]. The entire place was fundamentally completely metaphysically corrupt [[TheSociopath almost]] no matter [[LiteralMinded the angle]] you viewed it from, and the overall narrative itself recurrently seemed to adapt a [[TheSociopath sociopathic]]-level [[{{Gorn}} ruthless]] WhatIsEvil mindset.[[hottip:*:For example, during the SecretInvasion a horde of deceitful religious fanatics intended to symbolise fears, warranted or othervise, towards Islam, were attempting to take over the world. The previously \\\'\\\'anti\\\'\\\'-EagleLand rebel character Ryker shot one of them in the head [[AuthorTract with]] [[CharacterDerailment the]] OneLiner \\\"[[NotSoDifferent You think that God loves you!? That\\\'s insane! God only loves the U S of A!]]\\\"]]
* However, this is a matter-of-fact look at all of Marvel\\\'s history combined, which means a merger of pretty much all the most extreme horrors ever invented into one overwhelming, extremely self-conflicting, ridiculously splintered, neverending, and addictive BrokenAesop story setting. Different writers regularly embrace and applaud concepts that others simultaneously condemn and vice versa, and it all recurrently turns into a complete SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids self-loathing BrainBleach [[RunningTheAsylum incoherent mess]] of madness that even make (the also extremely destructive) HPLovecraft seem tame in comparison. However, [[PillarsOfMoralCharacter there have been several writers]] [[OnlySaneMan who have done their best to attempt to go against the stream]].[[hottip:*: Both here and in other SuperHero comics. Among plenty of examples, perhaps more prominently [[FriendToAllLivingThings JM DeMatteis]] AlanMoore, and [[ThePowerOfLove Christos Gage]]; but also Grant Morrisson (with few noteworthy exceptions), KurtBusiek (with some noteworthy exceptions), MarkWaid (when he stays aways from a recurrent fixation on eternal torture as an acceptable moral solution, or labelling silly things as absolute evil, such as mothers living through their children being evil monsters that should be tortured forever), RogerStern, GregPak (with few noteworthy exceptions), Paul Lewitz, Geoff Johnns (with some noteworthy exceptions), SterlingGates, MattFraction, GailSimone (historically, but did a FaceHeelTurn in some recent books)]]; alternately either [[NextWave blatantly]][[hottip:*:\\\"[[CatchPhrase Healing the world by beating people up]]!\\\"]] or [[TheUltimates overtly]] [[StealthParody satirise it]].
* Also, after being bought by the far more (creatively) constructive, healthy, and idealistic {{Disney}} corporation there seems to have been an [[ExecutiveMeddling active effort]] [[PolishTheTurd to at least outwardly]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld do something about]] [[HeroicAge some of the overall problems]]. Hence, although the terrifying metaphysical structure of the place remains, half of the protagonists are cleaning up their methods, smelling the flowers more, there is less infighting, or unwarranted bigotry, half of the {{EldritchAbomination}}s were wiped out,[[hottip:*:In ThanosImperative and NewMutants respectively]], several of the dystopian future timelines were wiped out[[hottip:*: In {{Avengers}}, but replaced by another just as bad. Think {{Terminator}} post-apocalypse machine-intelligence-run wasteland]], several stories have turned less depressing, and although people with mental handicaps are still being spoofed, it is in a far less ridiculously extreme manner than uniformly labelling/scapegoating them as wantonly sadistic {{SerialKiller}}s or {{OmnicidalManiac}}s. (Naturally, there are exceptions,[[hottip:*:For example: \\\"Welcome To Tranquility: One Foot In The Grave #4-6\\\", but that\\\'s a {{Wildstorm}} book]] but at least dangerous outright bigotry may turn into the exception rather than the norm, which is better than nothing).
* However, historically speaking, it may very likely be one of the most intensely destructive, wide-ranging, confusing, immersive/addictive CrapSackWorld WorldOfChaos DysfunctionJunction fictional environments ever created. There is no getting around that history, [[DarkerAndEdgier and]] [[TrueArtIsAngsty the]] [[AllForNothing damage]] [[HighOctaneNightmareFuel is]] [[CosmicHorrorStory already]] [[SillyRabbitIdealismIsForKids done]] [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves to]] [[DeusAngstMachina an]] [[TraumaCongaLine awful]] [[UberMensch lot]] [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop of]], [[DespairEventHorizon victims]] [[RunningTheAsylum of]] [[BrainBleach the]] [[{{Gorn}} memetic]][[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy infection]], but it may mostly turn into a CrapSaccharineWorld from here and onwards, and the games or cartoons are far more self-contained, and as such probably not nearly as dangerous to mental health maintenance for future generations.