Discussion History Main / YouHaveNoChanceToSurvive

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers). The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used, and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

\\\"You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but you personally cut stuff from the old definition. I didn\\\'t cut anything you wrote, just added back in what was cut without discussion on the trope page. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote, so no disagreement there unless you see it as a much narrower trope. You\\\'re indicating you object to the original trope somehow, but I don\\\'t see where the disagreement lies. and therefore cut out the whole page and rewrite it. I don\\\'t think anyone wants to actually narrow the trope definition: Exact-phrase is not separately tropable and was never the intention because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. It\\\'s a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase...

The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] is not because of any attempt to \\\"shoehorn\\\" Zero Wing phrases. It\\\'s because we didn\\\'t have this one. I went to potlink a telegraphed threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it... I \\\'\\\'knew\\\'\\\' that Zero Wing was an example so I figured surely it would be listed there. No dice. HowDidWeMissThisOne?

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know or don\\\'t like.

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers). The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used, and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

\\\"You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but you personally cut stuff from the old definition. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote. You\\\'re indicating you object to the original trope somehow, but I don\\\'t see how. and therefore cut out the whole page and rewrite it, but consensus cuts both ways. I don\\\'t see consensus to actually narrow the trope definition: Phrase-only is not separately tropable and was never the intention because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. This is a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase, afterall.

The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] is not because of any attempt to \\\"shoehorn\\\" Zero Wing phrases. It\\\'s because we didn\\\'t have this one. I went to potlink a telegraphed threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it... I \\\'\\\'knew\\\'\\\' that Zero Wing was an example so I figured surely it would be listed there. No dice. HowDidWeMissThisOne?

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know or don\\\'t like.

On Edit: Just saw your last post. So how do we reach consensus? I suppose you and I could discuss it here.

I\\\'ll post what got removed below (which is in fact a smoothed out rewritten version of the page launch description, subordinated to your text).

Ninja\\\'d: Just saw your last post. So how do we reach consensus? I suppose you and I could discuss it here.

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers). The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used, and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

\\\"You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but you personally cut stuff from the old definition. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote. You\\\'re indicating you object to the original trope somehow, and therefore can cut out the whole page and rewrite it, but consensus cuts both ways. I don\\\'t see consensus to actually narrow the trope definition. Phrase-only is not separately tropable and was never the intention because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. This is a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase.

The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] is not because of any attempt to \\\"shoehorn\\\" Zero Wing phrases. It\\\'s because we didn\\\'t have this one. I went to potlink a telegraphed threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it... I \\\'\\\'knew\\\'\\\' that Zero Wing was an example so I figured surely it would be listed there. No dice. HowDidWeMissThisOne?

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know or don\\\'t like.

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers). The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used, and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

\\\"You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but you personally cut stuff from the old definition. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote. You\\\'re indicating you object to the original trope somehow, and therefore can cut out the whole page and rewrite it, but consensus cuts both ways. I don\\\'t see consensus to actually narrow the trope definition. Phrase-only is not separately tropable and was never the intention because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. This is a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase.

The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] is not because of any attempt to \\\"shoehorn\\\" Zero Wing phrases. It\\\'s because we didn\\\'t have this one. I went to potlink a telegraphed threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it... I \\\'\\\'knew\\\'\\\' that Zero Wing was an example so I figured surely it would be listed there. No dice. HowDidWeMissThisOne?

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know or don\\\'t like.

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers).

The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used for the name and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

I don\\\'t see any evidence that anyone who participated in the YKTTW was given a chance to participate in that Repair Shop, and I can\\\'t take it there now, because the discussion has been locked before I even logged back onto TV Tropes.

So how do we reach consensus? I suppose you and I could discuss it here.

\\\"That\\\'s beside the point though: You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but you personally cut stuff from the old definition. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote. So I don\\\'t see this being hard to resolve.

I don\\\'t see a consensus to narrow the trope definition to use of the exact phrase. Phrase-only is not separately tropable and was never the intention because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. This is a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase.

The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] is not because of any attempt to \\\"shoehorn\\\" Zero Wing phrases. It\\\'s because we didn\\\'t have this one. I went to potlink a telegraphed threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it...

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know.

What we each consider poorly written is a subjective matter. There was nothing objectively poor about the trope as launched. If there was, i.e. if the description was simply unclear, RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement applies, in which case we should be able to resolve this.

\\\"The reason this trope got flagged for repair immediately was twofold: that you didn\\\'t follow one of the Three Rules Of Three guildlines (specifically the one regarding trope name consensus)\\\"

Objections to the trope name did not come up in [=YKTTW=]. It was recommended that there be a redirect since the name itself is long but iconic (thereby meeting the rule of trope namers).

The major consensus of the Repair Shop discussion, now that I\\\'ve read it, was that the short version be used for the name and the long for the redirect. That isn\\\'t a major objection and it isn\\\'t an objection to the definition.

I can\\\'t be everywhere on this wiki either (ninja\\\'d = I agree with the post you just wrote after what I replied).

I don\\\'t see any evidence that anyone who participated in the YKTTW was given a chance to participate in that Repair Shop, and I can\\\'t take it there now, because the discussion has been locked before I even logged back onto TV Tropes.

So how do we reach consensus? I suppose you and I could discuss it here.

\\\"That\\\'s beside the point though: You added the stuff, a lot of which seems to be stuff I cut personally from the old definition, without consensus here first.\\\"

Ok, but You personally cut stuff from the old definition. It wasn\\\'t a grand collaboration to redefine the trope itself. What you wrote is the same definition as what I wrote. So I don\\\'t see this being hard to resolve.

I don\\\'t see a consensus to narrow the trope definition to use of the exact phrase, right? Phrase-only is not tropable and was never the intention unless sufficient examples exist, and even then, the phrase is not separately tropable because, as you note, it\\\'s one of several familiar variants of this trope. This is a trope, not \\\'\\\'just\\\'\\\' a stock phrase. The reason I originally [=YKTTW\\\'ed=] it is because I went to potlink a Zero Wing-esque threat to the relevant trope and couldn\\\'t find one because there was no trope for it...

I\\\'ve seen some pretty prominent [=YKTTWs=] with pretty good consensus for renames, etc. be allowed to marinate for quite some time so as to give people a chance to comment. I know that\\\'s not your fault. I hope someone didn\\\'t fail to \\\"assume good faith\\\" because it was launched by someone they don\\\'t know.

What we each consider poorly written is a subjective matter. There was nothing objectively poor about the trope as launched. If there was, i.e. if the description was simply unclear, RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement applies, in which case we should be able to resolve this.