Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave ''somehow'']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave somehow]] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave ''somehow'']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave \'\'somehow\'\']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave 'somehow']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave \'\'somehow\'\']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWave handwaving]] and more importantly ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who [[HandWave \'somehow\']] became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWave handwaving]] and ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWave handwaving]] and more importantly ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWavehandwaving]] and ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWave handwaving]] and ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic involves a lot of [[HandWavehandwaving]] and ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him with a glowing lightsaber. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
to:
Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
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Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
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Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
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I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind and self control to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
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I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
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This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
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This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
Apocrypha, we're talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don't like those character choices, but I can live with them.
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Apocrypha, we\'re talking in circles. Let me clarify my stance from several posts back again. Is it ok for Luke to make mistakes? Yes. Is it ok for him to have moments of weakness? Yes. Is it ok for him to be partially guilty of relationship going wrong? Yes. Is it ok for him to turn complacent or arrogant to a certain degree? Yes. I don\'t like those character choices, but I can live with them.
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Problem is that what we're actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
to:
Problem is that what we\'re actually shown in the movie in the contested scene takes things UpToEleven, goes in such extremes that I can no longer accept Luke [[CharacterDerailment as the same character]] as the one from the original trilogy. It makes me believe that the whole sequence of events is a [[ShockingSwerve shocking twist]] with no reasonable justification.
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I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who ''somehow'' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke's personality. I don't see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don't see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind and self control to become a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
to:
I get what you are saying. Luke mentally probed his student who \'\'somehow\'\' became evil, got scared and contemplated killing him. Technically there is a logic to that. But that logic ignores crucial traits of Luke\'s personality. I don\'t see a man from the ending of the Return of Jedi doing something like that, especially after 20+ years of rigorous training to become a Jedi master, it is as simple as that. I don\'t see how an idealistic, good person, who overcame his anger and fear at great cost, who studied discipline and self control, would completely lose his mind and self control to nearly turn into a crazed maniac. Simple change to the scene would make it work:
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This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can't accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
to:
This would solve so many problems. It would still portray Luke as someone partially at fault for things to go awry without making him look deranged. Luke would still get a moment of weakness, of succumbing to AdultFear and not making the best decision, but it would not be extreme and out of character. It would actually fit to his new role as the Jedi master looking to isolate [[TheCorrupter the bad influence]] from his other students. Instead Rian Johnson decided to go the most extreme and shocking route, ignored who Luke is, and wrote the edgy scene that he wanted to write. I can\'t accept it as anything but the ShockingSwerve.
